Honestly - How much will you sacrifice for a better world?

Confronted with the likelihood that we cannot achieve climate goals, confront socioeconomic inequality, and ultimately build a better world without significant personal sacrifice: How much are you personally capable and willing to lose? I mean this in the most earnest way possible. Acknowledging the likely possibility of working for an unethical organization while simultaneously supporting family who rely on you financially. Do you believe the amount we can and will bear aligns with the amount we must bear?

RBWells,

Is it guaranteed? I’d much rather lift everyone up to at least my standard of living, than squash everyone down to the lowest common denominator. But if you told me every family on earth could have what we do if I alone lived on the street, begging from them for the rest of my life, sure, I’d do it

Mnemnosyne, (edited )

Not a good damn thing, unless everyone with a higher standard of living than I do has already sacrificed enough to bring them down to my level. If I was anywhere near the top standards of living then I would be more willing to go first. But I am not going to be tricked into giving things up on my own, or even as a sizable group, while some individuals and corporations are continuing to make issues worse.

KpntAutismus,

pretty much nothing. as an apprentice living off of not even minimum wage, i cannot afford any more price increases.

i am also a car enthusiast, and i want to keep the cobustion engine around (hydrogen ICE comes to mind). i would also like to keep the unlimited speed on the Autobahn, even if it would slightly improve efficiency in terms of fuel consumption and traffic accidents to implement a speed limit.

i strongly oppose the enshittification of every online service and think these datacenters used purely for processing collected data should not exist. they are being operated with coal energy in germany, which is just stupid. (from a quick google, they’re using 18 Billion Watts)

Essential online services and infrastructure should be FOSS-based honestly. i NEED a google account to use public transport.

also fuck public transport. i have a 49€ ticket and cannot rely on it. we once had a 2-Month period where everyone had to use public transport because the schoool is located in the middle of the city. no one was ever on time these entire 2 months. did i mention that driving to work is 3 times faster, and i get to sit in a very comfortable heated seat the entire time?

rekabis,

I highly doubt there will ever be a better world, our current “business as usual” course will doom humanity to extinction within the next two centuries, and have a non-trivial probability of initiating a Venus Scenario due to the inertia present in human-made climate change.

Our only hope of avoiding that future is bringing out the guillotines and removing pretty much the entire Parasite Class from existence, implementing a true separation of capitalism and state, and instituting punitive laws that control and limit the worst depredations of capitalism (far more than what currently exist). While it wouldn’t be true socialism, it would bring us much closer to democracy that is free of capitalistic cronyism and corruption, allowing society as a whole to save itself without being handcuffed and bound to a profit-at-all-costs path by our corporate masters.

chicken,

Nothing, I’m only making a better world if I can make my own life better at the same time. I do live an extreme frugal existence and avoid working for any unethical organization, but it’s not a sacrifice.

What we can “bear” is the wrong question for a couple reasons:

  • Consumer luxuries don’t actually make for a better life.
  • Altruistic scheming isn’t anyone’s actual motivation for doing things.
  • “sacrifice” is irrational bargaining; reality doesn’t care whether you’ve made yourself enough of a martyr, and people who want to be martyrs don’t care if what they’re sacrificing actually makes much of a difference.

An effective solution will involve changes we can be happy about and a lifestyle that is actually better than what we have now. Commutes and lives spent stressing over money are a shit trade for what people get from it anyway, it won’t be hard to do better with less.

rekabis,

Consumer luxuries don’t actually make for a better life.

The fundamental luxuries do.

Humans spend a third of their life asleep. A good mattress makes a big difference in the quality of sleep, but it being a Cali King sure isn’t going to change much.

Modern life requires a high degree of physical mobility. Public transportation (Europe, etc) and cars allow us to cover distances in hours that would have taken days even a century and a half ago. A decent-quality vehicle can make a big difference in the reliability of said transportation and our ability to get around, but it being a Mercedes or a Bentley sure isn’t going to change much.

And the list could easily run to hundreds of examples, if not thousands.

We live in a world where most any first-world consumer item is a luxury compared to the global poor, or pretty much anything comparable from a century and a half ago.

What doesn’t have much of a positive impact, however, is the delta between an affordable item and a high-end item that costs many multiples more. People can and should aim for those “luxuries” that don’t yet tip over into deminishing returns, as opposed to those luxuries that are excessive purely for the purpose of producing excessive displays of wealth.

Like vehicles - both of mine (sedan, utility pickup) are approaching a quarter century of age. Could I afford brand-new vehicles? Sure. But why would I waste my money and planetary resources like that? The ones I have still work just fine with only basic maintenance, and are perfectly adequate in getting me (and cargo) from point A to point B. I have absolutely no ego that demands newer or fancier.

chicken,

Modern life requires a high degree of physical mobility

It doesn’t have to be that way, and I’m not convinced it’s strictly better that way.

We live in a world where most any first-world consumer item is a luxury compared to the global poor

Idk about that, even people without electricity or running water can get a cheap cell phone and solar charger now.

What doesn’t have much of a positive impact, however, is the delta between an affordable item and a high-end item that costs many multiples more. People can and should aim for those “luxuries” that don’t yet tip over into deminishing returns

Definitely. No need to be giving up things like regular bathing and functional cooking utensils that make a big difference for little expense.

MajorHavoc, (edited )

I’ve given up huge piles of cash by choosing to not work for megacorps.

It’s worth it to me.

Confronted with the likelihood that we cannot achieve climate goals.

The current trend line sucks, but we’ve seen plenty of times in history what the ultra rich ignoring the plight of everyone else looks like. Someone please pass the “not with them” list to me to sign when it’s time to chop their heads off.

I wish I was joking, but I’m not. Seriously. I’m not with them. I would like to keep my head while we adjust course abruptly.

Edit: To be clear, I am not advocating. What should happen is that our climate, inequality, and injustice trends get fixed through peaceful cooperation. But our current crop of billionaires don’t show a lot of sign of either wanting that, or having any real awareness of where their current path, historically, goes. Which wouldn’t really be material to me, other than beacuse I’m at risk both from the climate, and from how guillotines historically kill a lot of bystanders.

Mango,

My answer would probably jinx me and I don’t think knocking on wood can do enough for me.

AquaTofana,

My husband and I don’t have kids, and we’ve severely cut back (not fully cut out yet), but really cut back on our meat consumption. I also avoid buying plastic whenever possible, and buy things like toilet paper/paper towels/regular linens made from recycled materials. Actually, if I have the option to buy anything made from recycled materials I’ll typically opt for that. That’s about it right now.

Only tangentially related to your question, but I’m also in a Master degree program for Public Administration so when I retire from the military I can roll right into law school. My goal is to become a Public Defender, which, I know, is fucking hard work with a lot of burn out for little pay, but I do have confidence that I can be an extra pair of hands for an overburdened industry. Everyone in the US is entitled to competent representation, and I’ve no interest in representing those who can afford their own lawyers.

And it burns me up that the rich can often get away with paying simple fines while the poor who can’t afford it go to jail and become essentially legalized slave labor. Fuck that. Anyone I can help save from losing their livelihood, home, family, car, etc, is a big fucking W in my book.

Heir_Of_Isildur,

Thank you for sharing. Good luck with studies and career ambitions!

londos,

I think people are willing to sacrifice more than even they would expect, but no one wants to be the only one sacrificing, especially if it puts them at a disadvantage compared to others. But collectively, if people sacrificed together, it could even become a point of pride. It’s why countries develop strong solidarity in times of war.

KpntAutismus,

i want to see jeff bezos living with a median wage. then we can talk.

RIPandTERROR,
@RIPandTERROR@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t want to see him living personally

jpreston2005, (edited )

Honest answer, I cut my meat consumption to a few splurge meals a year. I have been working from home so I drive very little (granted I didn’t opt for WFH just for carbon emission reduction). I compost, and recycle EVERYTHING I can. that means cleaning out every recyclable container and make sure to note what my county recycles vs. throws away. I buy the vast majority of my stuff second hand, I’m always looking for something that’s slightly broken so I can fix it for a steal. I don’t plan on having children so that’s a plus, and I also vote for progressives that are fighting for tougher climate control standards.

All-in-all it’s not a whole lot, but I’m just one of millions of struggling americans just trying to get their basic needs met while navigating this complex, shitty oligarchy I inherited from my parents.

TheDoctorDonna,

If it was guaranteed to make the world better and not just some empty political promise, I would give up every luxury I could think of. The only thing I wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice are lives and human rights. If we needed to live in a tiny home with no internet, never eat out again and sew our clothes so that everyone is equal and has the same rights and comforts, I’m in. It would suck, but we’d survive and learn how to be content in knowing that no one is suffering for our greed anymore.

birthday_attack,

It’s always crazy to come into threads like these and see people say “I would murder as many elites as possible” without batting an eye, and in the same comment say “I could never give up hamburgers.” It’s some kind of insane self-soothing to throw all of the responsibility for a global issue onto a few scapegoats. It also shows that people have no intention of doing fuck all about climate change beyond typing up snarky comments on the internet.

People can misquote all kinds of studies they half remember to pretend that they have no responsibility for making changes, but that doesn’t make it true. Just as one example, first world countries’ per-capita rate of meat consumption alone is enough to push the world over our 1.5C warming target. But because it’s an inconvenience to make any changes to my life, I’m going to pretend I would personally kill scores of people rather than make a new recipe for dinner. We’re fucked

rekabis, (edited )

The CO2 impact of one member of the Parasite Class is usually in excess of 100,000 working-class people, and if a personal jets and yachts are involved, can exceed the impact of 1,000,000 working-class people.

So yes, violently denuding the Parasite Class (which can also be done via effective taxation; just saying) is an effective way to combat climate change, provided the outcome doesn’t involve the working class adopting more excessive lifestyles due to more a equitable distribution of wealth.

Garbanzo,

first world countries’ per-capita rate of meat consumption alone is enough to push the world over our 1.5C warming target

Gee, I wonder who lives there

KpntAutismus,

i love corn(?)-based meat patties, but i haven’t really seen any meat replacements like the impossible burger anywhere for sale where i live. people just don’t want to never taste meat again, a replacement would work fine. probably.

Cowbee,

As much as I can without harming those who depend on me.

fakir, (edited )

Call me a coward, but I’m more of a problem solver. Within these tinted walls of depression, if I squint really hard, I can see the light in the corner. Yes, I do see the light. Don’t kill yourself, you’re more valuable just being there for your brothers, or better still, helping create the world we all want. We have no choice but to accept the current reality, and live with it every day, but still - keep your chin up, & keep working towards the future you want.

!we_are_one lemm.ee/c/we_are_one

littlebluespark, (edited )
@littlebluespark@lemmy.world avatar

Well over “35k plutocrats”.

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