What's an amusing thing to say before going under general anesthesia?
Last time, I used: “Anybody need anything while I’m out?” and that went over well. May not make it through this surgery on Friday, so I turn to Lemmy for top-notch suggestions for my potential last words!
Then I’m glad I know my entire team, going in, and they’re all remarkably empathetic to their terrified, high-risk patient! Chances are, any final words through twilight sleep will be a last sentiment to my spouse, in case I don’t make it through. After my tight-five, of course, using the IV pole as a mic.
This was the nurse assigned to that specific shift and had nothing to do with the team that was doing the operation. I think her job was only to do intake and get you set up in a bed/etc. When asked what I was there for, I smiled and said “a lobotomy”. To look at her face, I had just insulted her grandmother’s apple pie.
Thanks for that, I hadn’t thought of it in those terms. Shockingly, being given permission somehow helped? I’ll have to remember that the next time I see someone in distress.
I could easily spew up the angry contents of the rabbit holes that are lobotomies, and their horror, but yeah, I also agree that that’s a weird reaction. I chuckled. I may have to reserve your comment for my next intake at the neurologist, depending on the vibe in the room (but also not, cause those folks professionally monitor how well my brain is functioning lol)
How do you get to know the entire team? It’s hard for me to imagine as the ones you interact with are the surgeons and anesthesiologist as they will talk to you in the ward at some point in time when making their round. But the surgery nurses only stay at surgery theatres or operating rooms and don’t do any round at wards. Patients won’t likely know them.
People want to a feel good story I guess. My question doesn’t aligned with that.
Not that I know each of them as buddies, but at least by face and bedside manner
By the time patients arrive at the operating room, all they see are people in mask. Patients can somehow recognize their doctors through their voices and characters. The nurses - there are no points of reference to recognize them. If these nurses happen to walk in front of the patient outside of the operation room, it will be with almost certainty the patients won’t recognize them.
When OP explain they know them by their bedsite manners, how could that be possible? Which hospital has surgery nurses who happen to function as ward nurses (bedsite)? Or, which hospital has the convenience to allow their surgery nurses to meet their patients at wards, which is not their normal place of work. Not only that it’s not normal for surgery nurses to do that, it’s abnormal.
I try to imagine the SOP of the hospital where the surgery nurses were able to show themselves to OP, damn, I still can’t. I am really out of loop.
I’ll get downvoted again for this. I’ll take it with pride.
It does seem that in this case the person was receiving extensive specialized care and had a team formed specifically to attend to their needs. It wasn’t just going in for your regular surgery, in which case your version is more likely.
“If I don’t survive, tell everyone I used GNU+Linux, btw.”
But realistically, I’d probably be repeating this to myself: “Do not talk right after you wake up! Do not talk right after you wake up! Check the time, wait at least 2 hours. Do not trust yourself right after you wake up!” in hope that I’d remember to do so as to not accidentally disclose private information while still being high.
So you want people to know you use GNU+Linux, and at the same time believe you have important “private information” you’re likely to disclose while recovering from a general anaesthetic?
Propofol is a hell of a drug. It’s impossible to not say something since your prefrontal cortex is basically still off.
My wife is an RN for the place I had a procedure done and I came out of it asking the anesthesiologist how much she made and telling her my wife was thinking of becoming a nurse anesthetist. The staff thought it was hilarious of course.
You can do what my 4yo did before his last surgery: shout out “WAIT WAIT WAIT!” right before they put on your mask or give you the drip, then hold out your fist and say, “FIST BUMP!”
My docs had a bit of fun with me, after gassing me up a bit they turned on Tina turners ‘what’s love got to do with it’ turned around to give a look and a grin.
“I’m aware that consciousness still exists under general anesthesia, but the brain is no longer capable of forming memories, so have fun stabbing me with knives, I’m actually going to feel it!”
But hang on, there’s an interesting topic. Is consciousness the current processing, or is it the memory (and perhaps something additional)? Since not all nerve signals arrive in the brain at the same time, consciousness provably isn’t immediate. Perhaps it’s the recent memory of what just happened?
Separately, is it still pain if you’re not conscious of it?
Doctors used to assert that babies didn’t feel pain, because 1) they couldn’t tell us about it, and 2) they didn’t remember it later. They would just not anesthetize babies. Of course, that endpoint of this line of reasoning is horrifying, but it’s still a fair question. When we say “pain” do we mean the firing of the nerves, or do we mean awareness of it?
and there’s zero record of whether they have any drug allergies or intolerances
Nowadays, you can test for anesthetic drug resistances with DNA site testing, (as in, a blood test), though of course, this does not mean that it is always used, for various reasons.
A personal anecdote:
I’ve had one done after I had bad side-effects to ADHD medication I had tried, and I haven’t had any bad effects in the medications I’ve tried since. (besides drowsiness)
Edit: I want to say, I’m not saying that getting the dosage right is not incredibly difficult, I just wanted to mention that we can detect drug allergies without putting them under, (so to speak).
That’s good to know! I just swelled up for a week because my new dentist used a different kind of local anesthetic, so it was close to the front of my mind. That would have helped a lot
Note that you’re getting into something that was a big deal in the 70s and 80s. They’d perform any surgery on babies without anesthetic (which is dangerous to babies) because it was believed that they wouldn’t remember anyway so it wasn’t a big deal after all. I suspect that people will learn about this with horror.
When we say “pain” do we mean the firing of the nerves, or do we mean awareness of it?
I’d say awareness of it, especially considering AFAIK local anesthesia (as in, fully awake during) doesn’t stop the nerves from firing, just from the signals getting to the brain, and I’d say that’s blocking the pain.^
Also there’s an interesting point in there: (this is not a rebuttal, just an addition)
Doctors used to assert that babies didn’t feel pain, because 1) they couldn’t tell us about it, and 2) they didn’t remember it later.
The reason doctors nowadays use anesthesia, (besides it being squick-y not to) is because it was discovered that, (though they may not consciously remember it) it can manifest in PTSD and other trauma related disorders later in life.^
In addition, it was found that there is a heightened level of stress hormones during surgery on infants, which were absent in surgery done with anesthesia.^ (These stress hormones also increased the risk in post-operational complications, due to the hormones acting to break down carbohydrates and other fats in the infant’s bodies)
I’ve had a lot of different injuries. On heavy morphine and pethadine, you definitely feel pain just as bad but you don’t care and just kind of forget about it. It’s like it dulls the nervous system in a way that it’s not blocking signals, it’s blocking how your system reacts to them. It’s hard to explain, but it’s a pretty surreal experience. You should be stressing, but you’re not. You’re very aware of the severity of the injury, but you’re totally calm about it and it slips your mind, like pain is the lowest concern.
I’m usually thinking like, “I wonder how the fix will go? What if I need to pee? I hope recovery isn’t months… Oh, yeah, and my limb is on fire with a bone sticking out, but they’re on it. I hope there’s no snorers in my ward and the food’s good. It’d be nice if they operate this evening because this sucks. I hope I can self-medicate morphine for sleep tonight. That really helped last time. I feel fucking great and am dribbling. Oh, yeah, and my limb is on fire with a bone sticking out. Meh…”
To the best of my understanding this is why local and general anesthesia can be the best combo.
General keeps you from being conscious of the damage of the knives during the surgical procedure. Local numbs the area to keep the brain from being aware that damage is happening. Reducing trauma sounds like a good idea to me.
Pain is fascinating (particularly if you’re not the one experiencing it.) Two people experiencing the exact same nerve stimulation can be painful to one but not the other. Context, life history and experience, and expectations all play into the experience of pain. In general, your brain determines if something is painful, then you do or don’t experience that pain. People can be shot or stabbed and be completely unaware until the brain decides it’s time to let them know.
Yes, pain is pain. People can still feel it and suffer even if they do not remember it. Anesthesia in context of surgery is too complex of a topic for me to comment on but I do frequently manage patients that are sedated, on ventilators either going to or coming from surgery. There are different scales and tools we use to assess if someone is under sedated or in pain. Keeping explanations simple pain can reflect as changes in vital signs, rigid or tense muscles, facial expressions. Sedation in the context I’m referring to is more a scale of either how awake someone is or what type of stimulation they respond to, for example do they open their eyes if someone says their name? Or do they open their eyes if I gently tap on their shoulder or do I need to put pressure on their nail bed for them to respond, if they respond at all. If they’re sedated enough they won’t remember the pain but they would still feel pain. Again this is NOT referring to general anesthesia during surgery, that is too complex and anesthesiologist have a very difficult job ensuring people are adequately medicated for surgery while also ensuring that they treat the side effects of the anesthesia medications so they don’t just kill people.
The two do have some overlap and my previous statement assumes no chemical paralysis. There are also times where it is acceptable to just sedate someone, or do something emergent without sedation and then giving something like Versed which causes retrograde amnesia. The person may have been fully conscious and felt everything that just happened but still won’t remember it.
This is a bit of an oversimplification but I’d say firing of the nerves is pain. I don’t have literature available to support but I know giving babies anesthesia is very dangerous so I would like to believe that the reasons you listed where just an over simplified “it’s really okay to do X or Y because they won’t remember it” rather than explaining to a parent in a way that they would truly understand the risk of anesthesia for a baby AND still allow whatever procedure to be done or force a parent to knowingly elect to put their baby through pain and suffering for a procedure. But again, not a doctor and I don’t work with people/babies during surgery
I broke my ankle a few years back and the bones had to be surgically reattached, but the OR was full so they had to set and splint it in the meantime. The shot of fentanyl didn’t do anything, so they gave a cocktail that knocked me right the fuck out and set my ankle. My husband said I shot straight up like I was in the Exorcist, yelled and swore a bunch and passed out again. I remember nothing, thankfully.
I’ve had that. They said I’d be awake but won’t remember anything. I’d feel it but won’t care.
Sure enough, I’m sitting up in bed, doctors are gone, and my leg is set, I feel totally normal. I had no idea what happened except that they said that’d happen. It was the weirdest experience. I hadn’t even changed positions. Like 15 minutes just got stolen from me.
I didn’t wake until the next day, they doped me right up or the fentanyl had a delayed reaction cause I slept for a good 15 hours after I was knocked out.
Ah. Mine was to set while waiting for surgery so things didn’t tighten up and be harder in the OR. I had tibia and fibula snapped and dislocated ankle. They got the joint back in place and straightened the leg, then put it in a splint to wait in.
They practiced the movements while I was with it and it seemed very violent and physical. Then they dosed me to do the real thing and the next thing I remember was sitting there wondering wtf just happened.
Yep same, I just slept a lot longer, probably cause of the cocktail they had to give me. And waiting for the OR took a little over a day so I was grateful to be out of it the whole time.
It’s funny for you, but definitely not funny to them. They will have to pause and go through everything with you again if they think there is even the slightest chance you are telling the truth. Anthstisiea and street drugs definitely don’t mix.
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