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Kristof12, (edited ) in KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future
@Kristof12@lemmy.ml avatar

Trying to gaslight others? nice

Ephera,

No, they’re discussing the way forward and what they think makes sense. In fact, they’re even clearly stating that there will be pain, because Wayland intentionally does less than X11. And they’re encouraging people with unsolved pain points to speak up.

dylanmorgan, in What's your experience with a touchscreen laptop on your distro?

I use Fedora on a gen 7 Carbon X1 thinkpad and the small amount I use the touch screen has worked fine.

Jakeroxs, (edited )

I also use Fedora Wayland but on a HP Spectre X360 from like 2013 or something, touch screen works fine and overall runs a lot better then win 10 was prior.

bitcrafter, (edited ) in KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future

Alternatively, instead of reading a Phoronix article that has a couple of short snippets from a much longer blog post, you can read the original blog post yourself to see the full context.

Edit: Also, it is worth noting that the author of the original blog post had previously written another relatively recent post criticizing the way in which Wayland was developed, so it’s not like they are refusing to see its problems.

IHeartBadCode,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

One of the specific issues from those who've worked with Wayland and is echoed here in Nate's other post that you mentioned.

Wayland has not been without its problems, it’s true. Because it was invented by shell-shocked X developers, in my opinion it went too far in the other direction.

I tend to disagree. Had say the XDG stuff been specified in protocol, implementation of handlers for some of that XDG stuff would have been required in things that honestly wouldn't have needed them. I don't think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:

Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_copy(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {
//Completely ignore this
return 0;
}

Some_Sort_Of_Return handle_paste(wl_surface *srf, wl_buffer* buf) {
//Completely ignore this
return 0;
}

Is really missing the point of starting fresh, is bytes in the binary that didn't need to be there, and while my example is pretty minimal for shits and giggles IRL would have been a great way to introduce "randomness" and "breakage" for those just wanting to ignore this entire aspect.

But one of those agree to disagree. I think the level of hands off Wayland went was the correct amount. And now that we have things like wlroots even better, because if want to start there you can now start there and add what you need. XDG is XDG and if that's what you want, you can have it. But if you want your own way (because eff working nicely with GNOME and KDE, if that's your cup of tea) you've got all the rope in the world you will ever need.

I get what Nate is saying, but things like XDG are just what happened with ICCCM. And when Wayland came in super lightweight, it allowed the inevitably of XDG to have lots of room to specify. ICCCM had to contort to fit around X. I don't know, but the way I like to think about it is like unsalted butter. Yes, my potato is likely going to need salt and butter. But I like unsalted butter because then if I want a pretty light salt potato, I'm not stuck with starting from salted butter's level of salt.

I don't know, maybe I'm just weird like that.

aard,
@aard@kyu.de avatar

I don’t think infotainment systems need a concept of copy/paste but having to write:

Having lived through the whole “phones don’t need copy and paste debate”, which fortunately got solved by now having it everywhere I’m in the camp “just stick that everywhere, just in case somebody might use it one day”

possiblylinux127, in Nobara 39 Officially Released

Honestly you should just stick to Fedora. If your looking for very user friendly then I would go for Linux mint.

simple,
@simple@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly you should just stick to Fedora.

Why?

possiblylinux127,

Support and reliability

Yerbouti,

IDK , Nobara is really stable. The main difference for me was that it comes with all the AV codecs you could need, and a few tweaks for gaming. Saved me a lot of time in the end.

furycd001, (edited )
@furycd001@lemmy.ml avatar

These are the reasons why I would consider installing Nobara over Fedora…

ReveredOxygen, in FN keys 7 to 12 not working properly (fedora 39 on Framework)
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

Are you able to use f12 to get into the boot menu?

WbrJr,

yes (even though i now have 2 fedora instalatoins shown that apearently lead to the same installation.

But i just noticed, that only the fn7 and 8 do not work, airplane mode does work!

wewbull, in KDE KWin Merge Request For Triple Buffering

Errrm, could they please leave some memory to other processes? KDE already takes about 1.5GB of VRAM on my RX7600 8GB just running a desktop (dual head 4k + 1440p displays). Yes, things can get swapped out to main memory, but that becomes choppy. I’d rather run single buffered, get the odd screen tear, and have the VRAM back for real work.

ItsPlasmaSir,

It says in the article that triple buffering only activates if your GPU struggles to render the desktop. That means old and weak iGPUs are getting this. For your desktop card nothing should change.

mr_MADAFAKA, in KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future
@mr_MADAFAKA@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh boy, the Phoronix’s comment section 💀

Rustmilian, (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Phoronix’s comment section is usually full of trolls, shills, and people afflicted with brain rot. So I don’t even bother reading them anymore.

lntl, in KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future

Wayland developer says X11 is bad, not Wayland

Vincent,

Notably absent: X11 developer saying Wayland is bad, not X11.

bluGill,

Mostly they are the same people.

Vincent, (edited )

Well, yes, except that those X11 developers agree that Wayland is better.

jjlinux,

Nobody, other than you and them, cares. Have a good day.

berryjam, in What distros have you tried and thought, "Nope, this one's not for me"?

Ubuntu. I hated not being able to customize certain things and it had some interesting bugs on my hardware. Switching to a different distro solved those issues

toastal,

Was that an Ubuntu problem or a GNOME thing?

berryjam,

I have no idea. This was more than 5 years ago. Fwiw I now use Arch (sans Gnome) and I’m very happy with the experience.

LeFantome, (edited ) in What distros have you tried and thought, "Nope, this one's not for me"?

Manjaro - used to love it. Now the only distro I actively advise against

Garuda - just too much ( I prefer Arch / EndeavourOS )

Elementary - wanted to love it - just too limited

Gentoo - realized I just don’t want to build everything

RHEL Workstation - everything too old

Bhodi - honestly do not remember - long ago

Ubuntu - ok, let’s expand…

These days, I dislike Snaps. Ubuntu just never hit the sweet spot for me though. I was already an experienced Linux user when it appeared and preferred RPM based distros at the tome. Ubuntu always seemed slow and fragile to me. Setting things up, like Apache with Mono back in the day, was “different” on Ubuntu and that annoyed me. For most of its history, it is what I would recommend to new users but I just never liked it myself.

Debian Stable - ok, let’s expand

I really like Debian. It was also a little “alien” when I was using Fedora / Mandrake and the like but it never bothered me like Ubuntu. I ran RHEL / Centos as servers so I did not need Debian stability. As a desktop, Debian packages were always just a little too old ( especially for dev ). The lack of non-free firmware made it a pain.

These days though, Debian has been growing on me. The move to include non-free firmware has made it much more practical. With Flatpaks and Distrobox, aging packages is much less of a problem too. I could see myself using Debian. I am strongly considering moving to VanillaOS ( immutable Debian ).

I basically do not run any RHEL servers anymore. At home, I have a fair bit running Debian already ( Proxmox, PiHole, PiVPN, and a Minecraft server ).

EndeavourOS is my primary desktop these days ( and I love it ) but it is mostly for the AUR. A Debian base with an Arch Distrobox might be perfect. Void seems quite nice as well.

I have been an Open Source advocate forever ( and used to say Free Software and FLOSS ). I have used Linux daily since the 0.99 kernels and I even installed 386BSD back in the day. Despite that, the biggest “not for me” distros right now are anything too closely associated with the politics of the GNU project. It has almost made me want to leave Linux and I have considered moving to FreeBSD. I would love to use Haiku. OCI containers and the huge software ecosystem keep me on Linux though.

The distribution that intrigues me the most right now is Chimera Linux. I run it with an Arch distrobox and it may become my daily driver. The pragmatism of projects like SerenityOS really attracts me. Who knows it may be what finally pulls me away after 30+ years of Linux.

someonesmall, (edited )

What was your problem with Manjaro?

pete_the_cat, (edited )

Apparently there’s a lot of hate for the devs/packaging team, people say updates break their systems all the time. I’ve used it on and off for a while years ago, personally and have had no issues. I put it on my parent’s computer over two years ago and they haven’t had any issues either.

someonesmall, (edited )

Yep there seems to be a lot of hate for stupid reasons (“omg they forgot to renew the SSL cert of the archived forum”). I’ve been using it for 4+ years now and had zero major problems. I have even installed some exotic software from the AUR and am using them without any issues.

Snoopy, (edited ) in Why do you use the terminal?
@Snoopy@jlai.lu avatar

Because app manager doesn’t work well. And there are the feedback on terminal that tell you about missing dependencies or broken packages…The fact you get those verbose log help for doing web research and solve lot problems. On GUI installing app isn’t well done : it’s slow, they don’t tell you what they are doing nor why it fail.

The only limitation of terminal is when you want to work with file system. I need to see the tree and typing ls -a everytime isn’t efficient. Example, i’m doing a git clone on a server throught ssh. But i have no way to know its structure and check if i downloaded it in the correct directory. I need a visual that tell me this folder is here, has those writing permission, is a tar archive… So i use both : filezilla and terminal, gui and cli. In fact, they are both very useful, so there no point comparing gui and cli, they both serve well their purpose.

I’m using CLI and GUI. For example, if i want to chose the correct keyboard and check its mapping : gui. If i want to add sources and its gpg key : app manager gui. There is no way i would enjoy typing this huge command line with flags from my mind, and i do lot mistype. Or installing the stack lamp ? on windows it was amazing and faster than linux. next, next, done.

Luckly we can copy-pasta those commands.

Edit : updated my text.

tuhriel,

For filesystems I have another gripe: if I move a file to another directory and I want to swap to the directory I just copied the stuff to I have to enter the whole path again…

throwawayish, (edited ) in Which distro in your opinion is the best for virtualization (Windows 10 on either KVM or VMware), stability, and speed?

virtualization

Honestly, I don’t know. Though, I’d reckon there would be any significant difference between distros.

stability

Depends on what you mean with stability. If you meant it like how “stable” is used in “Debian stable”, then it would be any distro with a release cycle that chooses to not continuously deliver packages; but instead chooses to freeze packages and hold off updates (besides those related to security) for the sake of offering a relatively polished experience in which the behavior of the distro is relatively predictable. Some distros that score good on this would be Debian stable and openSUSE Leap. It’s worth noting that Distrobox, Flatpak and Nix allow one to have newer packages on these systems if desired.

If, instead, you meant that the distro is less likely to break upon an update, then it’s important to note the following:

  • While you shouldn’t expect breakage to happen in the first place, unfortunately it’s realistic to expect it every so often (read: 0-2 times a year on non-stable distros).
  • If you have a lot of packages, then it’s more likely that at least one of them causes some breakage.
  • Technically, every update is a potential ‘breakage-moment’.
  • Packages that haven’t been installed through the official/native repos are more likely to cause breakage.
  • Relying on Distrobox, Flatpak and Nix for (at least some of) your packages should benefit the stability of your base system.
  • (GRUB-)Btrfs+Timeshift/Snapper allows one to create snapshots one can easily rollback to in case of breakage. Therefore it’s worth seeking out a distro that configures this by default or set it up yourself on whichever distro you end up using (if it isn’t included by default).
  • So-called ‘atomic’^[1]^ distros are (generally speaking) more resistant to breakage, but (arguably) they’re less straightforward compared to traditional distros. It’s still worth considering if you’re adventurous or if your setup is relatively simple and you don’t really feel the need to tinker a lot. Don’t get me wrong; these atomic distros should be able to satiate ones customization needs, it’s just that it might not be as straightforward to accomplish this. Which, at times, might merely be blamed on lackluster documentation more than anything else.^[2]^

As for recommendations you shouldn’t look beyond unadulterated distros like (Arch^[3]^), Debian, Fedora, openSUSE (and Ubuntu^[4]^). These are (in almost all cases^[5]^) more polished than their respective derivatives.

speed

Most of the distros mentioned in this comment should perform close enough to one another that it shouldn’t matter in most cases.

If you’re still lost, then just pick Linux Mint and call it a day.


  1. More commonly referred to as ‘immutable’. Atomic, however, is in most cases a better name.
  2. If you’re still interested, I’d recommend Fedora Silverblue for newcomers and NixOS for those that actually know what they’re getting into.
  3. I believe that one should be able to engage with Arch as long as they educate themselves on the excellent ArchWiki. It might not be for everyone, though. Furthermore, its installation (even with archinstall) might be too much for a complete newbie if they haven’t seen a video guide on it.
  4. Ubuntu is interesting. It has some strange quirks due to its over-reliance on Snap. But it’s worth mentioning, if you don’t feel like tinkering.
  5. With Linux Mint (and Pop!_OS) being the clear exception(s).
mmababes,

I’m going to give openSUSE Leap a try.

If you meant it like how “stable” is used in “Debian stable”…

Yup, that’s what I meant

throwawayish,

Great choice! But as others already have noted; if it will be used for virtualization only, then perhaps distros like Proxmox should suit you better.

tonyn, in I didn't know where else to ask this, if there is another comm i should ask please lmk. Do you have any suggestions for wireless headphones i can use with linux?

I use my Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones through Bluetooth I have a little Bluetooth dongle plugged into my PC’s USB port. I’m on Ubuntu 20.04. I’ve had no issues.

dust_accelerator,

Same, really love them, as you can wear them for hours and they cause no pressure or uncomfort. ANC is great too. I use them for work.

sagedemage, in What distros have you tried and thought, "Nope, this one's not for me"?

I hopped to many distros and found Ubuntu to be my home.

  1. Mint => Desktop looks dated and ugly
  2. POP! OS => Unstable for Ubuntu distro
  3. Rest of Ubuntu forks => nothing special about them
  4. Arch Linux => Too bleedy edge
  5. Debian => stale packages (Really solid distro though but dated version of Gnome)
  6. Ubuntu => Really solid distro (It is a great balance between stability and bleeding edge)
dan, (edited )
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Debian => stale packages (Really solid distro though but dated version of Gnome)

Did you try using the testing or unstable versions of Debian? Testing is still more stable than some other distros. Packages need to be in unstable with no major bug reports for 10 days before they migrate to testing.

sagedemage,

I forgot to mention that I did try Debian testing. I did like it came with a recent version of Gnome. However, I did had a few problems with it:

  1. I personally found it updates more frequently then I like it. I found that the user interface for Gnome changes often.
  2. If I want to install MySQL workbench, it does not have a download link for Debian at all.
  3. I did got a weird crash bug with Krita on Debian testing. I am not sure if it was Debian’s or Krita’s fault.

I did found Debian testing to be slightly unstable. I decided, I will give Ubuntu a shot again and was happy with that decision.

neonred,

Try Debian sid (unstable), from my experience it’s actually more stable than testing because it gets updates even more often.

And ditch Gnome. There is no way to be happy with it as it craps out very often and is a maintenance burden for maintainers, therefore the quality differs so much.

Mubelotix,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

Fedora => opposite of debian. Bleeding edge, but that means you have to spend an insane amount of time updating or it will reach EOL in no time

woelkchen,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

you have to spend an insane amount of time updating

How slow is your internet connection?

or it will reach EOL in no time

Sure you don’t confuse Fedora with non-LTS Ubuntu releases? According to docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/releases/lifecycle/ each release is supported for 13 months which isn’t 10 years of LTS but hardly “in no time” either.

Mubelotix,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

I don’t mean downloading updates I mean manually updating your configuration to adapt to new versions of the software. That’s what takes time. I know 13 months is already quite high but it feels too low for me. I’m running servers over longer periods than that

pete_the_cat,

Fedora annoys me (even though I’ve been using it for like 2.5 years on my work laptop) because a lot of packages that would be in extra in something like the Ubuntu (and it’s derivatives) or Arch (and it’s derivatives) is in a separate repository that you have to add.

BlueEther, in Can anyone share their experience with Asahi as a Daily Driver?
@BlueEther@no.lastname.nz avatar

Anyone with experance with a latter M2 air? last time I tried it just wouldn’t

Bread,

According to their feature support page for M2, it appears it works now.

github.com/…/M2-Series-Feature-Support

73rdnemesio,
@73rdnemesio@infosec.pub avatar

using it on an M2 Mini now, they recently updated for support on M2 devices, the Air looked to have more marked as compatible than the Mini.

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