Guix is almost like nix but with scheme, right? Any other differences?
I do like scheme. Nix is quite impressive. But my unpopular opinion is I am not convinced it’s philosophy is necessary. Nix feels like a workaround to legacy baggage in POSIX to allow for all its features of full reproducibility of packages and the overall system. Although Gentoo is not exactly reproducible, I feel like the level of control is sufficient to give me the benefits I want.
Nix works for maybe 95% of cases, but the 5% where its workarounds do not work sre annoying to deal with. Gentoo on the other hand doesn’t break so much from the traditional unix way of doing things, but still grants the user a great load of freedom and choice.
The biggest difference between Nix and Guix is that Guix doesn’t support non-foss software, meaning you can’t use it as a package manager on other operating systems. I originally wanted to use Guix but use a Mac for work, so that became a deal breaker.
Nix is pretty awesome as a package manager, I’ve been happy with it after the truly unnecessary learning curve brutality. I do not imagine I would ever use the full OS though.
Based on what I’ve heard so far: GNU Shepard instead of systemd, a package manager that compiles things from source and allows user-defined compiler options, a totally different way of arranging system files, and Guile-Scheme is used for everything; it sounds like there’s no other kind of configuration anywhere.
It also uses Linux-libre by default, although you can go back to plain Linux, and they’re working on Hurd.
FYI, browsh is more than just an old school terminal web browser (that would be lynx). It’s actually full firefox (or chromium IIRC), adapted to run in a terminal
sed is okay but a little nasty, when your sed script is longer that one search-replace command you gotta ask yourself what you’re doing really (yes, sed is a full-featured Turing-complete programming language, if you go far enough into the man page).
When I see awk in any stackoverflow recipe, I just say ‘fuck it’ and rewrite the whole thing in Python. Python is included into the minimal system image in Debian, the same as awk, but is way less esoteric, and you can do python -e ‘import os, sys; commands;’ for a one-liner console script.
And if you want to talk about portability, try writing scripts for Android 4.4 ash shell. There’s no [ ] command. You do switch/case to compare strings.
“There will probably be an awkward period before all of these pieces are in place for all of the people.”
I think these are the two key takeaways – Wayland is still in development and the bandwagoning are the early adopters – most of us will switch when our distros switch (and will probably be none the wiser)
the problems (and the reason we’re suffering through sensationalist stuff like “Wayland breaks everything!”) is the fanboy push to switch before it’s ready – not everybody lives on the bleeding edge (just like not everyone runs Arch) and the “switch now or be left behind” attitude does more harm than good (far more likely to alienate than convert) …
Wayland is still in development and the bandwagoning are the early adopters
Not to bust your chops but I’m not sure what you’re implying. What isn’t still in development? WordStar? X11? Mac System 7? And Wayland’s initial release was 2008. That’s 15 years ago. Who are these “early adopters” of which you speak anymore?
Many of those things you're thinking of were declared Somebody Else's Problem by said developers. That's fine, but Wayland was not ready for use by normal end users until somebody else did finish them.
From what I hear most of them actually are finished by now, but they weren't as of a couple years ago when it started becoming commonplace to see declarations that the time to switch to Wayland was Right Now. I tried it out then, and am as a result much less enthusiastic about doing it again now even though it'd be much more likely to go well.
It’s basically an extra layer of polish to make Debian as user-friendly as can be, which while being very pleasant to work with for experienced users, is likely to be particularly appreciated by those who are not particularly technically inclined. As an example, the Mint Software Store is pretty much unmatched as a stable, and extremely user friendly way to manage and install software, with reviews, Flathub integration, screenshots, etc. Where as on standard Debian, the GUI package manager would likely be Aptitude, which is quite a daunting piece of software for the uninitiated.
You could make a vanilla Debian install as user friendly as Mint, but you’d already have to have the skill to get it to that state, where as Mint is ready out of the box.
LMDE essentially is Debian (uses the Debian repos for most of its installed packages), with some Mint packages included on top via the Mint repositories that are also added. Mint actually has some pretty neat graphical utilities and has Flathub configured to work by default with the Software Center.
The real benefit though is if you enjoy using the Cinnamon DE. The latest Cinnamon version is kept up-to-date in LMDE as the Mint team backport it. The Cinnamon version in Debian 12 is fixed and will not get major version updates until the next version of Debian.
As a Debian user myself, I enjoy Mint when I wish to use Debian on the desktop. I only use core Debian for servers.
Thanks for the good explanation, makes sense.
I’ve been using Debian for both servers and desktop for some while, and tbh getting DE updates earlier would be nice without going unstable - but not nice enough to start tinkering around and potentially compromising the stability so I get it
I learned a ton from this, it’s kind of “The Book” I guess. For OP, there’s a pretty massive series of blog posts I fumbled along with too, ianthehenry.com/posts/…/introduction/ though it’s a couple years old.
Anything arch, basically. Maybe I'm just a too lower tier power user, but I have always returned to Mint. Rock solid daily driver working out of the box. I don't really want to have to tinker with the os, I admit. It should just work.
Fully agree. I once wanted to try it. I took a look at the documentation for partitioning and realized that I needed 2 full days for a working installation and constant access to another PC to be able to read the documentation… No thanks, I don’t care about the hate, Debian/Ubuntu is up and running in 30 mins and gets out of the way…
My personal PC and work PC are windows. I also just accidently removed a lot of my game files, so I figure it’s about time to start over. I’m going for kubuntu this time. I figure it’s going to be easier to get set up and running quickly without much fuss.
That said, I also run endeavor os on a little netbook tablet I have, so I’m dipping a toe there as well.
Because Gui’s don’t show advanced options and so I know/understand exactly what is being done. (e.g. I would always use apt over mint’s package store so I could see what it did, how much time I had left, download multiple applications at once and see if the package made a random config file somewhere)
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