I have been distro hopping for about 2 weeks now, there’s always something that doesn’t work. I thought I would stick with Debian and now I haven’t been able to make my printer work in it, I think I tried in another distro and it just worked out of the box, but there’s always something that’s broken in every distro.
I’m sorry I’m just venting, do you people think Ubuntu will work for me? I think I will try it next.
I have an epson L4260, I downloaded a driver that was supposedly for Debian, it was a .deb file that I installed but nothing happened, I added the printer but it just wouldn’t print.
I’m just taking a guess here but is the .deb you installed a program you have to run to do the setup? My one printer I had to run a program to start scanning every time.
EndeavourOS is pretty good, too; also Arch-based with an easy installer.
The advantage to Arch-based-distros is rolling releases, and the Arch wiki instructions are more easily followed. And right now, the Arch wiki is probably the single best resource for Linux instructions and troubleshooting on the web.
I daily drive endeavour and love it to bits but let’s not recommend it to someone who wants an OS with no fuss. It WILL break and require experience to fix. Remember the grub update fiasco?
A LOT of people’s PCs were bricked, including mine. No boot, just blank screen with blinking cursor. Thankfully Endeavour’s team was quick to react (quicker than Arch, as it happens) and published a full tutorial on how to chroot into your system and downgrade grub, but that already required a good level of knowledge and confidence in the Linux system as none of this was trivial, or intuitive for any stretch of the imagination. I woudl imagine most affected EndeavourOS users who were new-ish to Linux threw the towel that day. Wouldn’t blame them, it was jarring even for me, and it wasn’t my first chroot.
That sounds stressfull! It’d put me off a distro, too. I had something similar happen in the early days of Gentoo - multiple times. Those trials by fire did teach me a lot, and I’m now consequently far more sanguine about the boot process, and thank god these days we have smart phones as mini-backup computers to search for solutions! Still, we’re in a time when PCs are not as indispensible, and having one down for a couple days can be a minor disaster.
Rolling updates or no, I rarely -Syu on my desktop more than once a week, and most of my machines get that TLC more like monthly. And sometimes I’ll hold out packages that require rebooting, because FTN. It probably contributes to the fact I’ve avoided these types of dramas --statistically.
Yeop, you can say that again. Can’t read the Arch wiki on a Nokia 3310 for sure lol
Tbh I’m not too careful about updates, I have regular backups and grub exploding wasn’t enough to stop me, so eeeeh, if something really goes awfully wrong I have enough free time to deal with it and use it as a learning experience. I know I should be smarter about them like you are, but on my personal computer I just cannot be asked. ^^
I know I should be smarter about them like you are
TIL being lazy is “smart”.
Nokia 3310!! Those were the days. When you had drive over to your hosting provider (some guy’s garage, who was paying for a T1) so you could sit at your server (a tower you’d built) to fix something that an upgrade had broken. Those experiences with dependency hell put me off Redhat forever.
Edit2: Honestly, I daily drove Fedora for years, didn’t do a clean install from fedora 13 through 25 and it worked like a charm. I guess they improved wildly since your Redhat days!
Are you updating with eos-update, or yay? TBH, I only use yay, or pacman. I don’t imagine it makes any difference, but… IDK. I happened to upgrade and reboot two EOS machine yesterday, with again no issues. Are you running an NVidia card? I’m an Radeon guy, won’t touch NVidia, myself. How about Wayland? I’ve alwayw found Wayland to be super flakey, which keeps me on X.
I dunno. I wonder why you’re having so many issues, while for me EOS has just been Arch with an easier install.
Mostly using eos-update by clicking on the notification, unless I’m on a terminal where I still have the yay reflex from arch. I should remember to use eos-update though, I do appreciate the extra housekeeping.
Nop, I avoid nvidia as much as I can as well, I already can’t avoid it at work, too much driver drama. Ryzen and radeon it is, with (almost) no fuss.
Also mostly using wayland, it works well even on KDE, but got Xorg around just in case, and I’ve had the occasional issue on both. That being said, it’s plymouth that blows up, long before the graphical session is opened, so that shouldn’t have an influence either.
Maybe I’m just a black cat, and/or maybe it just comes with the territory when you stay long enough on a bleeding-edge-use-at-your-own-risk kinda distro and update almost every day. Something’s bound to go wrong eventually. Which, has also “been Arch with an easier install” for me, tbf.
Gonna investigate a bit more today, couldn’t be asked yesterday. But if you’re curious I can keep you updated when I find a fix. :)
Edit: Found the solution by essentially doing the same thing the folks on reddit did with nvidia by enabling early KMS start, and learning quite a bit along the way. Apparently it’s now required by Plymouth and my system didn’t get the memo? Or something? Eh it works.
Ah. K, I think the differrence is that I’m the outlier. Your system has far larger components, with more moving parts, which I think is more common:
On most of my systems, I’m not running any graphical system; they’re all servers. That eliminates a huge amount of stack that can fail. On all but non-servers I run X, which is very stable (in that upgrades almost never impact it) on non-Nvidia GPUs. And of those, all but one run herbstluftwm - Gnome and KDE are both large systems with a lot of moving parts, any of which can break (or be broken) – in your case, it was Plasma, a KDE component. And the last desktop is running Budgie which, while still Gnome, is a lighter one based on the older GTK3. All of these things tend to make for more stable systems.
But, most people are probably running fancier, full desktop software. Larger, more complex, more development, more frequent changes. And, consequently, more prone to cascading packaging breakages, like the Plasma one.
I think if I were using software like that, I’d consider either giving up Arch and using an immutable distro, or using something like snapper or timeshift that allows boot-time system roll-backs.
Ah no no, maybe I was unclear, but the issue occurs during the initramfs stage, long before any of my KDE/Plasma nonsense had any chance to run! KMS has nothing to do with KDE. ^^
Oh, that plasma. Yeah, that naming conflict is totally not confusing.
You could switch all your repos to the core Arch ones. I did that by accident once, and it was fine (although, I did switch them back eventually). Maybe it’d add release stability? I’m not really clear how the EOS repos vary off the baseline, except by adding some custom packages.
Inspired by our discussion, I installed snapper on two boxen. I included snap-pac and snapper-support to get system change and grub integration; there’s probably also a utility out there that adds visudo-like snapshot-before-manual-edit of anything in /etc. If not, it’d be an easy script. snapper-gui and btrfs-assistant both look useful. While I’m comfortable with rescue SDs and restic backups, what I’m seeing with Arch’s snapper package is pretty nice, and super easy.
I suppose anything that borks grub is going to be a PITA no matter how immutable your OS, or how fancy your rollback. Or - god forbid - fucks up your BIOS firmware. I have never had that last happen, yet (knock on wood).
You could switch all your repos to the core Arch ones. I did that by accident once, and it was fine (although, I did switch them back eventually). Maybe it’d add release stability? I’m not really clear how the EOS repos vary off the baseline, except by adding some custom packages.
They don’t afaik. EOS uses Arch’s repos directly, unlike Manjaro. Just adds its own on top for all the fancy EOS stuff. Which is why EOS was immediately affected by the grub meltdown and not Manjaro. (which kinda digs a few holes in the stability hypothesis, though Manjaro is another kettle of fish tbf)
Snapper sounds really interesting, and I didn’t expect “super easy” to be the feedback there. Sounds a bit overkill for my use case at home but I might look into it for work. Thanks for the info!
Oh god a borked BIOS is my nightmare… I don’t even know how you’d go about fixing that on a modern PC mobo… Let’s not jinx it shall we?
If I remember correctly I liked manjaro and endeavor when I tried them, but the “night color” feature which is very important to me wouldn’t work Idk why.
does night light actually work? I used them for a while, turned it off for color and I didn’t notice a difference. Isn’t it just placibo or just very minimal effect?
My current work forces me to work with Apple (because they are lazy to prepare Linux for working), I have been on Linux for almost 10 years and I really want to quit my Job because of this stupid Apple laptop, it is trash, the DE is stupid, and I have many issues (with settings, login items, alacritty not working… yabai stopped to work without any reason…) that stresses me a lot… So good, I love my work and I still enjoy working, but the macOS is pure trash.
I was in the same boat but Linux Mint just literally worked. Easiest transition ever. I keep my Windows dual boot because I need MS Office for work but I’m in mint 95% of the time with no tinkering.
You can always try Linux risk free in a virtual machine like VirtualBox.
If you like what you see, and you have any valuable data backed-up, you can try dual booting. That way you get to use Linux as your primary operating system, but can switch back and forth as much as needed.
I found I was dual booting Windows and Linux for over 3 years before I was comfortable enough to stop using Windows entirely. Switching to Linux doesn’t have to be an all-or-nothing approach. You can take it as slow as you want.
I’ve found ubuntu distros to be pretty good for 'stuff just works". My daily driver is xubuntu. That said, I’ve never tried using a printer with it. Good luck OP.
I’ve been using Linux for 10y and never distro-hopped to solve a problem. Overall I’ve only used 3 distros as daily drivers. IMO you should look into making things work with a distro you like instead of looking for the perfect off the shelf distro.
To build off of the above poster, some things sometimes take some tweaking to make work. When you distro hop you’re really just hopping to a different set of defaults and maybe a few relevant library differences. Learning what to do and how to do it can be daunting but when you get it its brilliant and then you have some idea what you need to do the next time you encounter a similar issue
I second EndeavourOS. Nothing beats the arch wiki and arch user repository, and combining that with the easy and sane install of EndeavourOS makes it an almost perfect distro.
Ubuntu in my experience works best out of the box and has the best support reference online. Ubuntu works out of the box save for the webcam where Debian doesn’t even boot on my MacBook.
Install Ubuntu and be done. I’m able to print to my brother network printer with no special drivers. I installed a gnome tweaks package to do some minor tweaks in gnome, and I did rip out the Firefox snap thing to install Firefox from a package so I could use my kpxc plugin, but that’s the only major change I made. Hell, Dell (laptop) even provides firmware updates via the package manager so your bios gets updated properly. Best Linux desktop experience I’ve ever had over the past 5 years and I’ve been daily driving Ubuntu since 2004.
Give Zorin a try. It’s based on Ubuntu but even more user friendly - so much so that my elderly mother has no issues using it, she even prints and scans (a Brother MFD) and has no issues.
Naah I think it’s super useful to know a bit about all popular distros. This makes you able to actually take part in conversations about what distro to pick for example.
I’ve ran them all at some point in my life, which makes me able to understand that it’s not just “different package manager” as some people say.
I mean, people say that, but for me it wasn’t a problem, I just picked one when I got started. Didn’t feel like a major decision since you can just switch again if you are unhappy.
I feel ya. I was the same way. They said don’t distro hop so that was the first thing I did 🤣 I guess the thing with a lot other people is they are used to the thing that “just works” (whatever the fuck that means).
For them, I just tell them use PopOS. Good distro. Little fuss. Maintained by a company with interest in keeping it going.
That said, I’m teaching a class this afternoon to CS majors and the first thing I’m having them do is install Arch in a vm 😉
I’m a recent Linux convert I started with Debian testing and that worked out of the box for everything except Nvidia drivers. I hopped from Debian testing over to Pop Os because Debian testing wasn’t supported for a bunch of random things I wanted to use. I stopped using pop os a couple of weeks ago because it would crash all the time and was going to jump to Ubuntu just so pretty much everything would be supported. That flash drive install was corrupted so I ended up on nobara and have loved it with no issues so far.
Linux Mint is where I always go crawling back to. I have hopped so damn much. Mint sometimes needs a newer kernel installed, but I’ll be damned if that Ubuntu base doesn’t help with printers, graphics drivers, and scanners. Getting that to work on Arch was a blast and a half, on Mint I literally just turned my network printer on and it found it. IDK, you can do anything and there is always some issue eventually.
For first time plug-n-play distros, I either go with Linux Mint or Fedora, for me they have the best results for just working.
And make sure when installing them, you always check to use proprietary drivers and codecs if it’s an option, that will save you a bunch of trouble down the line.
Linux is kinda like a 3d printer. You can end up tinkering and tuning more than printing.
2d printers are just cursed and have been since the dawn of mankind though. Go to openprinting.org/printers/ and see if your printer is in there and if it is which functionality header it is under. I’m assuming it isn’t capable of driverless if debian didn’t work and the other distro just happened to have something preinstalled. Unless debian doesn’t handle driverless printing out of the box. I’ve only used debian headless for server stuff so I’m just making assumptions.
Arch maintainers recommend against aur helpers but for quite some time I just did exactly that and got the drivers for whatever jank ass printer I had at the time that way. Most of the official ones I have encountered are rpm and I hadn’t used fedora or other rpm distros until recently, and the aur pkgbuilds would unpack the rpm and install the drivers the arch way. Incidentally, last I tried silverblue/ublue/kinoite etc can’t install the brother printer rpms via rpm-ostree so having a driverless capable printer was lucky considering it was just randomly given to me by a friend that moved away.
If you share the printer model, someone here can probably also figure out what needs to be done without you having to go through a bunch of troubleshooting too.
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