Imagine no WSL, no nothing. The only way to use Bash/Zsh is to use either a full blown VM or switch to Linux. All coders would 100% move to Linux, except that code in C++++.
I am probably going to get downvoted to hell for this, but powershell is pretty good.
You can write a whole project in powershell with proper intellisense. I think microsoft also sprinkled some f# type provider magic in it, so the programming experience is rather nice.
imagine writing complex logic in bash, zsh or even fish.
Even as the world’s biggest Microsoft hater I can admit that Powershell is pretty slick.
The bad doesn’t always negate the good. Take birth control for instance. It was developed in a highly unethical way (tested on a large population in Puerto Rico without their knowledge or consent IIRC). That was a bad thing, but birth control by itself is a good thing that improves people’s lives.
Pretty good by Windows standards, but it’s awful and too verbose and ugly by UNIX standards.
imagine writing complex logic in bash, zsh or even fish.
There are a lot of Bash wrappers for a lot of programs or the programs themselves are written in Bash. Maybe complex logic in Bash wouldn’t look pretty, but it is much easier than POSIX shell. And there is a LSP server for shellscript. If a custom command is present on the host, then the server will also see it and you can autocomplete it.
Some things are easier done with shell than python, so it all depends.
I can think of a few reasons why someone would complain about Windows 11 without touching privacy aspect at all: the number of clicks you now have to do to get even basic things done because they messed with the context menu, and speaking about changing things that were fine before: the (lack of) file explorer Ribbon and the start menu, the ChromeOS looking layout they went with not being to most people’s taste, the need for a microsoft account to even use the thing (tho you can edit the Registry to bypass this and several other grievances, even some i mentioned…why not just have those as settings/options, just saying?) etc, etc
Some of the above changes and then some + just how much of a pain it was to even upgrade to it were enough for me to move to Linux in the first place when i learned about it, so…yeah, I’d say it’s kinda bad when it made an (at the time, but you can argue I still am and I won’t despute it) tech idiot like me permanently move OS’s
What should I tell you, I immediately liked it more than Win 10.
People also use Android phones and Macs and have Accounts for that. If you seriously believe this is going to drive the masses away, I have bad news for you.
Everything you listed are just small factors among many. I’m quite positive the Steam Deck / Valve are doing more for Linux’s popularity than anything Microsoft did wrong combined.
EDIT: I can’t read, apparantly lol i read “I liked 10 more”. disregard this first bit. Oh no no, you misunderstand: I like Windows 10. Mostly because I have no strong opinion on Windows 7 and didn’t use anything prior to that (and because Windows 8 was…Windows 8) As an OS, it was pretty fine. My problem was microsoft itself (and well, the changes that 11 brought. The list of complaints was basically me going “you had a good thing with Win10, why the radical changes to something that worked well?”).
I’ve also no delusions that Microsoft making controversial changes is gonna do much for Linux growth unless its something massive, like, “we can’t come back from this” massive–but that’s very unlikely to happen. I’ve said this dozens of times before, I’ll say it again: The only way Linux adoption will grow is if someone can walk up to Best Buy (or Browse Newegg/Amazon/whathaveyou), and walk out with a laptop or desktop with Linux already installed and ready to go + maybe a small tutorial like Fedora gives when you first boot up, since Gnome will probably be the default it comes with.
The Steam Deck was a good first step, but if Linux wants adoption, they have to put out stuff that runs Linux out the box to well-known and used markets and brick and morter shops. Not in the back either, front and center where everyone can see it. Much like Chromebooks, people will get used to Linux and its quirks–but they have to be able to access it in the first place (and by that, I mean i could grab an HP laptop packing Ubuntu if i wanted to instead of one packing Windows 11, not being told “to use Linux, you have to first choose one of many distros that are out there, then go download an ISO file and burn it to a USB”)
In my experience, 90% of games work on Linux just by using proton. I’ve even had some of my GoG games that just absolutely did not work on modern Windows just straight up be “install and click play” on Linux via just Wine or by using Proton. The 10% that don’t are multiplayer games with heavy anticheats–which, unfortuenatly are what a lot of people play. Some of them already work (Apex, Dead by Daylight, Halo) some are getting worked on (Genshin–tho there IS a way to play it on Linux, at the risk of a ban, a buncha easy-anticheat games like Hunt: Showdown, etc) and some have just plain said a Linux version is out of the cards (Fortnite, Destiny 2 AFAIK).
Modding games also works fine on Linux, but there’s a bit of a catch: it’s not as simple as installing MO2 and Vortex (you CAN install both via Lutris or Steamtinker, but I’ve personally never gotten either to work like that so i can’t say how well it does or doesn’t), you kinda have to play around and see what works. I was able to mod Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout New Vegas, and Morrowind exactly as i do on Windows (the former three using Rockerbacon’s Mod Organizer 2 script, the last one manually), Fallout 4 manually (haven’t tried the script since i don’t really play FO4, tho I’m sure it works), Pathfinder WOTR via using it’s mod manager in Proton, using Steam Workshop if a game supports it, and using Mod Managers for Linux when they’re available, like Baldur’s Gate 3’s LAMP. Yeah, it’s a hassle depending on the game. For me, it’s fine because I accepted long ago that there would be some annoyances to Linux, and as long as there isn’t any native mod managers built specifically for Linux and we’re stuck jury rigging mod managers made for Windows, modding will be one of those annoyances. But my tolerance is not everyone’s tolerance and I completely understand if people are put off by this and just stick to Windows for modded games.
Oh, I’m not disputing that a large chunk of gamers play games that aren’t playable on Linux yet (tho i disagree with the claim that the majority of PC gamers play those). I’ve always said “it depends on what you like to play” when it comes to gaming on Linux and I’ll stand by that until/if that stops being the case. My first point still stands tho:
The unplayable ones are a drop in the bucket. That’s a straight up fact. And some, if not most of the unplayables are getting patched to work on Linux sooner or later (save for Fortnite. Why do I pick on that one specifically? 1) I personally dislike it and Epic, but more importantly, 2) Epic’s CEO straight up shot the idea of Linux compatability down…even tho there’s nothing really stopping them from enabling Easy Anticheat on their side and making it work vs say, making something like Battle Eye Anticheat play nice with Linux).
If you look at the steam charts, the big FPS games pretty much dominate. I’d argue that does mean the majority are playing at least 1 of the incompatible games at least somewhat casually or with friends.
Most of the unplayables aren’t going to be Linux compatible. Most have come out and explicitly said so. If it hasn’t enabled Linux support by now, I’d expect it to never come.
EAC being enabled for Linux brings the security of the whole system down, which is why there’s resistance to it. You’re not able to cover nearly as much, so cheaters have exponentially more attack surface for a very minimal gain of players.
Strange, last I checked most of the top played games were also Linux compatible. Then again, the most played titles change frequently, so I’ve no doubt at least a couple of non-Linux compatible games make it up there depending on several factors like update/DLC resurrance and such.
Really? I’ve heard the opposite, but maybe their stances have changed and i just didn’t keep up with em or i was misinformed to begin with. Regardless, I have seen a couple of multiplayer games go from broken/not working at all to actually launching and being playable (as an example Naraka: Bladepoint. It also took Dead by Daylight forever to be playable on Linux, but it is now. I believe Apex was the same). Some aren’t perfect yet, but they work instead of stopping at the title screen–if even that. Sure, not all of incompatible games are gonna make it to Linux for one reason or another, but they are being brought in–albiet, i admit It’s slow as hell but hey, s’long as more people get to play what they want on the OS they choose to use at the end of the day–at least from what I’m seeing. Could be very wrong and am willing to admit so if shown otherwise.
Proton may not be perfect but it works for the vast majority of games at this point. And most mod managers can also run through Lutris, curious to hear which ones you’ve tried that didn’t work
Most people still Google “Facebook” to login to Facebook.
The general public won’t start using Linux until the computer they buy from their local big box store has it installed by default. Which for a brief moment nearly happened with netbooks.
They don't even know what program they browse the internet with, manage documents with, nor view media with. They know what button to press. George Jetson is our reality.
Most people still Google “Facebook” to login to Facebook.
Wait, I’m lost here…what’s the problem there? Maybe they wanna use the browser version and not the app (i haven’t used facebook in ages, so I’ve no idea if the site now just funnels you into their desktop/mobile app as much as they can)
I’m just pointing out the general tech ignorance in the world. There are generally people who think they need to go through Google to go to any other web page on the internet.
Most people will install Windows 11, complain about it, complain about the lack of Windows alternatives, then get offended and spam downvote anyone who mentions an alternative.
I’m trying to learn Linux, got Cinnamon to dip my toes into, and love it.
And being someone who is computer literate, finding a distro that was similar to windows to learn with was a pain. With all the infighting and superiority complexs on forums, the absolute number of variations of distros, combined with the avalanche of information you need to digest just to get a basic understanding…
Yeah, I get why people will stick to Windows and ignore free/better alternatives, all while complaining. It’s just not worth it to a vast majority of users.
Yeah…this is going to be a super unpopular opinion, but there needs to be a designated distro for new users who aren’t sure what to go with. If someone asks “What distro should I-” the rest doesn’t matter. We just agree on one distro and that’s it. Once they have a reason to look for another distro, they’ll have the knowledge to find it themselves.
To me? I use a laptop and don’t really tinker with my hardware at all, the benefits for me is I get the latest-ish versions of software (including user applications), and there isn’t this big jump between new versions
that 'designated distro' for newcomers used to be ubuntu. probably still is. as much as i'd want to say mint or some other variant of ubuntu or debian that i happen to like.. 'one man shows' and distros with very small teams aren't what a new user should be going with. there's a reason why so many base off ubuntu. it's big. it's solid. and it just works.
Most people will buy a computer, that computer will have Windows 11 on it, they’ll start using that computer and the pre-installed OS that came with it, and maybe, occasionally, they will complain that “this is different now” and that “they always change things, it’s so annoying” and that will be the end of it.
If you’re talking about people who install or even just upgrade the OS on their computer by themselves, are aware of such a concept as “alternative operating systems,” engage in any kind of conversation about operating systems on social media, and then care enough about the topic to downvote people who disagree with them on purely ideological grounds, you’re already talking about a tiny, tiny minority of computer users.
As tech illiterate as people are they also love complaining. Mostly complaining that Microsoft has a monopoly over computing. They generally don’t know what an OS is as you said but will still complain. Of course since they don’t know much telling them anything will get them offended as they feel that their intelligence was questioned.
Many people and even businesses are still running Windows XP and Windows 7 and we are still talking about security updates on Windows 10?😂 People will never take their security seriously if they don’t lose a lot of money at first…
A big problem is that there are hospitals and medical facilities using old versions of windows for reasons like the cost of upgrading all their computers or more importantly legacy software that they have to use just simply not working on more recent versions for various reasons. As much as having an up to date OS is important for safety, it’s just not feasible in some areas and it’s terrifying.
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