If you’re someone who is living paycheck-to-paycheck, you’re only voting for one party, because no matter who you elect the end result is still low wages and severely high cost of living.
Yep. We'll still have a shitty health care system, a shitty education system, a shitty transportation system, a shitty housing system, a shitty food system, a shitty economic system, and a shitty diplomatic system.
But goddamn do we have a lot of guns so we've got that going for us.
Your presidential elections are like the last step in the process. If you want to make real change, you need to start from the bottom up. You can’t just say (not saying you do this) “oh shit there’s a presidential election this year? And I dislike the Democrats candidate? Time to vote for a third party candidate to show them!”
It’s kind of like baking a cake I guess. If you just jump in at the end and taste the cake, well you’re stuck with what it is. "Oh I wish this was a chocolate cake instead of vanilla. I’m not going to eat this cake. I’m going to eat this other cake ", well you should have gotten involved earlier and who knows what’s in that other cake, it could have those disgusting flavored jelly beans in it.
I agree, which is why I've been voting in local and primary elections since 2000. And it doesn't work because the system of government we have is shitty, old, and broken.
To all the burn it down and rebuild leftists (by protesting and not voting for the lesser of 2 evils) tell me how well that went for the Communists in Germany and Italy the last time mask off fascism rose to power there…
Edit: Not one of these “Self-righteous leftists” have addressed my question about what happened to leftists in Germany or Italy when fascist took power there. Its almost like they dont give a shit about the Prolitariat and would rather engage in purity politics rather than support the working class or marginalized communities. Absolutely pathetic astroturfing, or simply a complete disregard for the Materical Conditions on the ground in America.
If you want to teach the Democrats a lesson, do it earlier. The presidential election isn’t the time nor place to play games - as we saw with Trump setting the country back years.
The amount of people I knew who were like, “There’s no way Hillary could lose so I don’t need to vote,” or, “Bernie got fucked so I’m not voting out of spite,” were too damn high
The “best” part was seeing how low the voter turnout was in our district that typically leans blue, well in 2016 the turnout was hella low and it went hella red for the first time in a long time
Looking at raw numbers the red was pretty consistent from election to election but that year so many people who would vote blue didn’t vote that it swung the election
Felt bad but now those people I know haven’t missed a single election
Not one of these “Self-righteous leftists” have addressed my question about what happened to leftists in Germany or Italy when fascist took power there.
Because your question implies that selfish concerns ought to outweigh principles…
I’m not saying that voting harder back then would have changed anything, but drawing a parallel between then and America today where mask of Fascism is very much on the ballot tomorrow and a year from now in the presidential election. Not voting to protect one’s ideological purity is the height of privilege.
Okay but voting didn’t prevent fascism in those countries. Fascism didn’t happen because some communists and anarchists refused to vote, it happened because of class war on the part of the petite bourgeoisie and precarious haut bourgeoisie
Maybe you should get your Facts right. The KPD only didnt participate in the 1919 election. In the last Reichstags eleciton in 1933 they got 12,3%. They where removed and procecuted after the Nazis blamed a Communist for the Reichstags fire. idk much about Italy but they also got a few seats before Mussolini. To your question about what happened to German Communists, they where either put into Prisons/KZs and killed there, flead to the Soviets or went to Spain to fight Facism there. idk about Italy but probalby the same.
Eyuppp the fascists killed them or ran them out of the country. The Prolitariat was never able to achieve the necessary class conciousness needed for a successful revolution and human history entered into one of its darkest and bloodiest chapters. Mask of fascism is bad for the Prolitariat and voting is the bare minimum of civic duty to prevent it from taking hold in a nation.
I never said it would have, was merely asking what happened to Communist in those countries when fascism came to power there. Your disingenuousness is showing.
Mask of fascism is bad for the Prolitariat and voting is the bare minimum of civic duty to prevent it from taking hold in a nation.
But voting didn’t prevent fascism in all the countries youre describing. In fact, theyre examples of how voting within a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie can’t prevent fascism.
Please note my use of the term bare minimum, if you arent going to vote you sure as shit arent going to organize. Voting is the bare minimum and an easy first step towards being more politically involved, why are you trying to discourage leftists from voting so hard? Do you want fascism to win the election or something?
Voting in bourgeois democracy is a way of channeling political activity into an unproductive avenue. It doesn’t follow that voting is required for political involvement. And also your original claim was that it was the bare minimum, it isnt. It is below the bare minimum. You could say “it is a step toward the bare minimum” and I’d disagree but that would be more accurate to what I believe you’re trying to convey.
Literally making radical unions as part of a socialist organization and doing serious mutual aid work. Providing logistical support to protestors where protesting=/=marching
Not voting for the lesser of two evils is the most childish shit. People like to bring up that Geralt quote, as if the situation in that story wasn’t made a hell of a lot worse by his decision not to choose.
If you’re not gonna vote blue all the way down, then you need to put your money where your mouth is and start burning it down so you can rebuild it. Otherwise you aren’t protesting, you’re just being lazy.
I really dont know what in the fuck they are suggesting, they sound like a Russian shill trying to derail the rising tide of Class Conciousness in America by encouraging leftists to not vote, allowing the mask off fascist Republicans to win. They would apparently rather be ideologically pure and let the fascists win, than pinch their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils and maintain the status quo where large swaths of the population are actively waking up to the hypocrisies of our Capitalist system. Either way they reek of astroturf and are extremely disingenuous, and have completely ignored the onus i set for them to explain what happened in Italy and Germany when fascist took control there, because they dont give a shit and just want to see America burn. They dont give a damn about the Prolitariat.
And 45 being in power would have made it all better and would have supprorted Freeing Palestine. /s Give me a fuxking break. Implying that i support Genocide is ridiculous, I’ve attended 2 Free Palestine marches in D.C. so far, have written the president to voice my opposition to the funding of Israel, and contacted my Representative. What have you done besides engaging in whataboutism on the internet? Biden sucks, but implying that voting for him and/or supporting dems in the midterms is supporting Genocide is assinine especially when you factor the right wanting to commit Genocide on trans folk in the US. You are supporting Genocide by not voting for the lesser of 2 evils you self-righteous internet sjw. Touch grass and engage in Praxis if you actually care.
Furthermore you are a shite internet SJW you haven’t posted an ounce of OC. I’m an internet sjw myself, dont get me wrong, but at least I post OC. Have you ever had an original thought? Or do you just puppet what gets upvoted on Lemmygrad…
Anyone who supports Genocide Jim Crow Joe Biden is a genocide supporter. It’s that simple.
I’ve attended 2 Free Palestine marches in D.C. so far, have written the president to voice my opposition to the funding of Israel, and contacted my Representative.
And then supported him regardless. This is just performative bullshit for you to attempt to salve your conscience. You are complicit in genocide by directly supporting Joe Biden.
Biden sucks, but implying that voting for him and/or supporting dems in the midterms is supporting Genocide is assinine especially when you factor the right wanting to commit Genocide on trans folk in the US.
The right? Are you trying to claim that the Dems are not “the right”? So your concern is for a tiny fraction of a tiny percentage of the world’s population, rather than the millions who are murdered by America worldwide? At least you admit it. American lives are worth multiples of other humans, right? Scumbag.
Also relative to the Dems the Republicans are right, you absolute ham sandwich. I’ll vote for a Neoliberal all damn day to fight mask off fascism that the Republican party is championing.
No it isnt, allowing tge Republicans to win would quite literally stain my hands with the blood of my trans Comrades. Your whataboutisms are pathetic, glad you are privileged enough to not have to worry about mask off fascism taking control in America. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils still reduces the amount of evil in the world.
Why are you appropriating left wing terms to try justify your genocide? How many of the tiny percentage of humanity is American? And what percentage of those are trans? And of those, what percentage are “comrades”, do they support genocide too?
You’re just making up excuses for your white supremacism.
Voting for the lesser of 2 evils still reduces the amount of evil in the world.
It literally doesn’t you ignorant Nazi removed. It just papers over the cracks.
The only moral choice you have is to stop supporting the USA.
lol, somehow he believes that if you had voted for Trump none of this would have happened and Trump who is suggesting we remove all Palestinians from the US would have handled this better.
And seemingly also believes that had you done nothing it would have been a more powerful statement. Right, because allowing Trump to win would have been a good “fuck you” to Biden without any real world consequences.
Unless these people are out there plotting the coup of the history of mankind and not just idly complaining on the internet, then they need to just stop.
Oh, then proceeds to come up with some “trans lives don’t matter when compared to _____” or “you care more about ____ than _____?” Again, quit it.
Ive attended multi protests/marches and have made a plethora of memes that spread class conciousness. However the onus isn’t on me to give my praxis bonafides when I’m not the one encouraging civicdisengagement. What praxis havd you practiced?
I’m literally advocating more political engagement, “you’ve got to vote to prevent fascism” is a lie, you’ve got to do a hell of a lot more than protesting and voting and making memes.
Underneath a meme I made while shitting, youre welcome. If you dont understand how building class conciousness isn’t synonymous with building power, all i can tell you is that you need to read more theory.
Never said it did, its encouraging political engagement, which you are actively discouraging by disparaging the Electoral system, which is a tool to stave off fascism long enough for class conciousness to build.
Electoral system, which is a tool to stave off fascism long enough for class conciousness to build.
It literally isn’t, and it has never worked as one. What historical examples are you basing this on? How many books have you actually read on the subject?
I would start with the “economy and class structure of german fascism”, “The capital order” goes into how neoliberalism is connected to fascisms modern resurgence.
I’ll see if my library has em, but i am very well aware of how Neoliberalism is connected to fascism from what I have read on marxists.org I just dont agree with abstaining/denegrating the electoral process to remain ideologically pure. Criticism is great, but discouraging voter turn out in leftist spaces does nothing but accelerate mask off fascism from returning to power ie. The 2016 election.
So I would love to know. Would voting for either no one or a third party be a big “fuck you joe!” with no real world consequences? Is that seriously your belief?
Voting for one of two given candidates is far from actually directly supporting someone. You do not know what they did before the generals. Who they supported in the primaries. Unless you are literally out there plotting the coup to outdo all the coups of mankind and not idly sitting complaining online, then you have zero room to attack someone for voting for the less of two evils.
Unless, of course, you believe Trump would have somehow done better or prevented this. The guy saying he would remove all the Palestinians from the US. The guy that the creators and backers of Project 2025 wants to be their guy
And quit it with the “a tiny percentage of people is better than _____”. For one, well over a million people is not just some group to throw to the side to support another group and you’re literally doing the same thing you’re accusing this person of doing. Second, if you think that trans people by themselves are the only target of all that nonsense, then you are seriously incorrect.
Your hands would be clean of blood and you can say you didn’t participate in the charade that led to the deaths of millions.
Voting for one of two given candidates is far from actually directly supporting someone.
It’s literally supporting one of them. That’s what it is. Participating in the American regime’s phony processes legitimises them.
Unless, of course, you believe Trump would have somehow done better or prevented this.
I don’t care. There’s no air between them. Biden took all of Trump’s policies and made them worse. You don’t care about the policies, just the personalities.
For one, well over a million people is not just some group to throw to the side to support another group
This is literally your logic, remember? The lesser of two evils?
Second, if you think that trans people by themselves are the only target of all that nonsense, then you are seriously incorrect.
Are the other targets Americans too? If so, fuck them, the vast majority of Americans support its continued existence.
Alright, continue believing this nonsense. Again, unless you are actively working on a massive coup to destroy this system, then all of your talk and nonsense is going to do nothing to help anyone.
There isn’t one major political group in the entire world that you standing up by doing nothing does anything about. Not one.
And again, you call for the attack of other people in order to save another, which is exactly what you accused him of.
All you’ve got are some shit excuses to support a genocidal regime that’s killed and displaced tens of millions around the world and continues to do so today.
Doing nothing as you call it is the only moral choice in the context of American “democracy”.
you call for the attack of other people in order to save another
That’s your shtick, not mine. I said to “do nothing” remember? Can’t even be consistent in a single comment.
No, you are suggesting that their support of one group is an attack on others. Your position is that is wrong.
You proceed to say “fuck em” about Americans who are under threat of attack. Which is a contradiction of your beliefs, at least if you take it at face value. You provide no other context and appear to be of the position that American suffering (individuals, not the regime. We can agree the regime needs to be destroyed) is of no consequence to you.
It’s a shame that both sides of us have to just jump to attacking each other instead of the much larger target that we BOTH agree needs to be dismantled. Much more could be done. This whole “left vs liberal” thing is such a waste of time.
That’s my point. Instead of attacking them, talk to them. Share your opinions, but don’t do it in some “I know more than you” and “I know what your beliefs are” type of way. None of us know each other outside of the little pieces of text we post here.
No, you are suggesting that their support of one group is an attack on others. Your position is that is wrong.
The USA has killed millions of innocent people in the past decade alone. How is this wrong?
You proceed to say “fuck em” about Americans who are under threat of attack.
Those millions of people are killed in their name and not only do they not do anything about it, they actively make excuses that if they don’t enable the genocides, then they’ll be killed instead, the epic cowards.
the position that American suffering (individuals, not the regime. We can agree the regime needs to be destroyed) is of no consequence to you.
No, not those complicit in American genocides, you for example and the vast majority of other Americans. Was every Nazi in WW2 completely aware of everything they were enabling? Probably not, do we still think they should be eliminated? Well? Do you?
It’s a shame that both sides of us have to just jump to attacking each other
You’re a Joe Biden supporter. You deserve it.
Your entire thesis here is just excuse making to support a genocidal regime. We have nothing in common.
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