maniel, (edited )
@maniel@lemmy.ml avatar

not sure about other languages, but with Polish Google is still the most useful one, Bing and DDG don’t even hold a candle to it, that said i still think Google went to shit hard

sgtlighttree,

Same, DDG fails with local results here in the Philippines, I found myself adding “g!” to my searches more often

Trarmp,

not !g?

PopOfAfrica,

Kagi has kicked ass for me. Its paid, but you get what you pay for.

The only sore spot is image search.

Fungah,

I liked kagi for the first couple months I had it but then I noticed the results seems to be getting worse. Google tier. I cancelled because why pay for that?

I’m not sure if the results were better at first or whether I just noticed flaws more the longer I used it.

I’m often not even bothering to search for technical issues now. There’s been a big mindset shift in me. If I can’t figure it out on my own then pack it up and move on to the next thing. It’s a 5050 shot at best whether you’ll get help on a forum and search is a dumpster fire everywhere. I’m learning a lot more this way and retaining but fuck me running is it ever frustrating

redcalcium,

Have you tried downranking (or even blacklisting) the spammy sites on your Kagi search result? That alone is an improvement over Google.

phoenixz,

Which is why I stopped going since about 4 years ago now. One day I just went to a different mall, and never looked back

fidodo,

Where? I feel Google has gone way downhill but the Bing based search engines haven’t seemed any better.

snowe,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

Kagi.

cmgvd3lw,

And that mall is

lemmesay,
@lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

tons of alternatives.
search engines with independent indexes(i.e., not beholden to any big search engine):

  • mojeek
  • brave search(semi independent)
  • kagi(semi independent)

meta-search engines(gets results from other search engines):

  • startpage(google)
  • duckduckgo(bing)
  • qwant(bing)
  • swisscows(bing)
  • metager(multiple sources)
  • searx(ng)(multiple sources, configurable by user)

I’m still missing a ton but this should give you an idea.

for more, see this interactive graph, or this Wikipedia list which includes other niche types of search engines as well.

I personally use mojeek(because of their independent index) with duckduckgo as a fallback.

Mojeek,
@Mojeek@lemmy.ml avatar

thanks a lot for the mention, if you wanna use that fallback less and less, feeding back on algo updates via www.mojeek.com/eval always helps us

lemmesay,
@lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

didn’t know about the page. thanks! and good to see you on Lemmy.

lntl,

Nowadays i find myself leaning the old ways: browser bookmarks. Not long ago, search was so good that i stopped using them.

UncleGrandPa,

I just get tired of jumping through hoops to find what I’m searching for… Instead of what Google wants me to see

fossilesque, (edited )
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

YALL NEED KAGI.COM

Also:

Decentralise and build a toolbox, it’s better for your brain.

BulbasaurBabu, (edited )

Keep your links, I’m going back to askjeeves

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar
mainframegremlin,

my homie refdesk just called and said “we are so fucking back”

match,
@match@pawb.social avatar

Google Scholar is still quite good for the moment

fossilesque, (edited )
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/408be545-5a76-49c0-a22a-154c9af7ccf9.png

Here is an example for searching for “cats” with academic turned on. It’s not just .edus but it’s definitely part of the weighting. Nature is usually the first hit obviously.

You can also make custom searches with parameters and link easy access third party buttons. I did one for Google shopping for instance.

Scolding7300,

I didn’t know kagi is supported in Brave mobile. Been trying to set it up on Mull (Firefox) but gotta wait for v122 so I can install via a file

fossilesque,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

Yup, yup. Should be under recently visited in the selection settings iirc if you visit the page first.

fossilesque,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

Archive.org scholar is great too! This academic search is a bit different because it does webpages and not just publications.

gohixo9650,

YALL NEED KAGI.COM

I refuse to pay for a search engine. There are numerous searxng instances out there in which I’m not the product even though I’m not paying.

kzhe,

Yes. And they all suck by comparison.

lntl,

kagi is paid search, I like the idea of that. why do you recommend kagi and not another paid search provider?

phoneymouse,

I’d pay for Kagi if it were $5/month unlimited. Not going to pay $5/month for limited search.

lntl,

yeah, i agree. I’ve get email for €1/month

snowe,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

I hadn’t even seen other paid providers but I got real sick of Google about six months back, tried kagi on trial and paid for it before the trial was up, that’s how good it is.

fossilesque,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

I did the same!

fossilesque, (edited )
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

I can customise it to ignore AI spam with custom filters + academic search + custom rankings + other custom tools. I can yeet domains from ever being seen again. It’s just very tailored to whatever you need. I hardly go elsewhere now. I find it curbs my compulsive rumination googling because I get clear, trustworthy answers and not AI telling me I have cancer or am distracted by something dramatic.

StorageAware,

As a subscriber, one of the things I like about Kagi is how responsive the Kagi team is. I’ve reported a few bugs (4-5 maybe?) and they all got resolved fairly quickly. You can also find the founder on the Discord server talking with users. This was a breath of fresh air to me when I signed up.

atkion,

I use Kagi too - they have a feature I haven’t seen before where you can basically optimize your own SEO. You can uprank or downrank any given website to varying degrees based on how much of that site you want to see in your future search results (I use this a lot for game wikis that have since migrated off of Fandom etc, but the stale Fandom page always shows up first in google search).

They’re also working on a feature to warn you which articles are paywalled directly from the search result, which I will use the hell out of.

They also have something they call Lenses, which are essentially search profiles that emphasize certain types of results (programming lens upranks stackoverflow, github, and API docs for instance).

All in all I’ve been extremely pleased with the quality of the product and the directions they’re exploring in. And being able to easily chat up the devs in discord doesn’t hurt either.

blackstampede,

I had Kagi for a bit and enjoyed it, but I’m not sure I use search enough to justify the price tag.

I didn’t know about the personalized SEO thing- I wonder if you could have a “default SEO rank” that would basically average all the specific uprank/downranks from other users. So power users tweak their algo, and everyone else gets the benefit of using that human feedback to improve their results.

redcalcium,

Search engines funded by ads have this perverse incentive to not give you the best possible results (or at least stop trying so hard to improve their results) so you search more (and thus served more ads). This may not be true for the underdogs (because they’re trying to gain marketshare) but seems to be especially true for Google.

lntl,

i test all web search engines the same way:

  • punch in "Python itertools"
  • see if the official Python.org documentation for itertools is the top result.

if it’s not, then the search engine is contaminated with advertised or SEO optimized results and it’s wasting my time

spader312,

The first result from Google was the official Python.org docs for me

devfuuu,

The true test is searching anything related to android and not get flooded by hundreds of links to auto generates blog content and useless bot created pages.

AgentGrimstone,

SEO abuse has ruined the internet. We could’ve had something good.

worldsayshi,

More like content farming right?

Krauerking,

I worked very briefly for a company that was hirable to push websites for SEO. It was basically all young underpaid contractors and interns even the HR team except for upper management who was all the same people from their previous big company running telemarketing bullshit.

So yeah just want to add the usual suspects definitely had a hand in the enshitification of the search engine as you might think.

BenLeMan,

All the people complaining must not be using verbatim search (in search tools, toggle from “all results.”)

intensely_human,

Verbatim search? As in direct string comparison? What is this 1999?

EmperorHenry,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

brave search, mullvad leta, duckduckgo…and for porn use bing.

finkrat,

I use DDG and it’s fine? Just use a different search engine

huginn,

In my experience DDG and Google are pretty close to the same quality. IE neither is good.

Zink,

I like DDG, but I believe it uses the Bing API to get the search results. So even though it’s a privacy focused site, you’re still getting results from a giant corporation.

obinice,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly people keep saying this but I just don’t find it to be true. Google is a vital daily resource for me, and usually the best way for me to find most things.

Is this because I don’t use social networks? Are people somehow using Instagram or TikTok as search engines to find what they’re looking for? It feels like people just use social networks these days and nothing else, so maybe that’s it?

AlfredEinstein, (edited )

I’ve been doing a lot of searches lately about running, picking shoes, overpronation, training schedules, etc.

Straight google searches (ones that would have returned worthwhile results even ten years ago) are all trying to sell me something, or are AI generated content filler garbage.

I have to add “reddit” to every search in order to get real information from normal people.

PopOfAfrica,

Reddit has axed access to Nordic VPN connected devices sadly, so no more reddit in my searches

frozencat,

a lot of people are using reddit and youtube to search for thing now

TheKingBee,
@TheKingBee@lemmy.world avatar

i use google to search reddit and youtube. reddit’s search still sucks and youtube brings up the same results as google generally and it’s in my address bar aleady.

obinice,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

YouTube is fantastic but it’s a video platform, all you’re going to find there are videos.

If I need to find a business or product page, I’m not going to look on YouTube. Same if I need to find a driver download, or a PDF manual, or the local weather, or information on a historical event, or…we’ll, you get the idea. They just do videos.

Similarly Reddit has a lot but it’s mainly centered around discussions of things. I use it as a very valuable resource, but similar to the above, it’s not where I go when I’m not looking for the one thing they do very well - discussion.

It sounds as if the main thrust of this idea isn’t that Google (or a search engine in general) is any less vital in daily web life, but rather that for some things you can go straight to the more centralised source and search there. E.g. if I want a video I’ll search on YouTube, rather than searching Google for aggregated results from many video hosts.

In that sense Google is slightly less relevant sure I agree, but only a little bit, and only for very specific things.

MeatsOfRage,

If I have a basic question I usually find myself going to chatgpt now.

intensely_human,

Same. I can even ask follow up questions

Krauerking,

Oh goodie. If I want made up answers based on the middle of the road guess work of an auto complete that sounds like a fun idea but I’d really just like to find out if anyone is selling the used record I’m looking for.

victron,
@victron@programming.dev avatar

You just described my situation. I’m a developer, I google A LOT of shit everyday. I haven’t used social media in 4 years or so.

RememberTheApollo_,

Let’s say I want to find an aftermarket built-in air jack kit for a car. Nevermind why, but let’s say it’s what I want to find.

So I look up car air lift jack. Google spits back a grid of floor air bag jacks for sale, a stack of videos of floor air bag jacks by people trying to sell them, Another grid of floor air bag jacks for sale, then finally a couple of the kind that go on a car, and godammnit another grid of floor air bag jacks for sale, finally sponsored posts for floor jacks or the wrong kind, Amazon ads for the same thing, ads for brands of the floor jacks, and more, more, more, makers of the wrong thing, lowes, home depot, walmart…it’s all wrong.

So the very next words out of your mouth are “Well, you used the wrong search term!” No, not really, but let’s try getting rid of “bag”, because that seems to be a big incorrect return on the search. So in goes “-bag” to the search term. What does that get us?

The exact same fucking thing. “-” is meaningless anymore.

So that’s google now.

Want help with a tech problem?

Wade through a stack of a dozen shitty youtube videos 10 minutes long each (because google pays more for ad space, longer videos have more space, so those get pushed to the top, and a problem that would take a paragraph of text to solve now becomes a shitty video with blather, subscribe, previous videos, like, other videos, and 2 minutes of actual help), a bunch of sponsored links to tech makers that have shit to do with your problem, and SEO sites like solveyourtechproblem.com or wefixitgood.com or whatever BS name for sites that consist of boilerplate help like “did you turn it off and on again?” Maybe after all that you’ll get an out of date reddit or github list of posts that don’t have anything to do with your exact issue. So you put it in quotes, that should work, right?

“It looks like there aren’t many great matches for your search” says google.

Why? I dunno. Not enough returns on the search to cram ads, sponsored links, shit for sale in?

Google is shit. I’ve switched to DDG. It has it’s own frustrations, but at least I don’t have to put up with Google cramming every ad and sponsored link in front of me along with garbage SEO sites. Google’s heyday has ended.

makyo,

The troubleshooting you list here second is my primary use for a Google search and it is completely garbage. Just like you say, it’s a bunch of trash SEO sites that don’t really address the problem so most of the time I add reddit to the search to get legit answers. Because reddit has a garbage search engine, of course.

Though I have to admit I have given up on that and just use DDG to search for Reddit results. It used to be that I’d start on DDG and if it didn’t have what I need I’d go to Google, but Google search has gotten so bad that I almost never bother anymore.

Echrichor,

Agree.

I think people’s ability to effectively Google varies though. There are people who will write full questions in, or fail to iteratively improve their search terms based on the results, and ignoring the fact that bard is actually pretty good if they start using that, googling is much more effective if you stick to relevant keywords and search using operators.

mindbleach,

‘We didn’t find many results matching the terms you wrote.’

THAT’S WHY I FUCKING WROTE THEM.

bdonvr,

I started self hosting a SearxNG instance. It’s pretty cool, it combines several engines while not spying on you.

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

No matter how many times people shit on Google, it’s still the best search engine, as much as I wish it wasn’t so. But it is

Tlaloc_Temporal,
@Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca avatar

Not really. Especially after the first couple results, it’s clueless.

Gabu,

What are you on about, Google is complete shit.

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Ok. I default to ddg but have to end up using Google half the time. It’s not for lack of trying.

snowe,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

That’s cuz DDG is terrible. Kagi is amazing in comparison to both.

vardogor,
@vardogor@mander.xyz avatar

kagi gives me much better results. i mean, it better, since it costs money.

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, I would pay for it, but when I looked at pricing I was pretty disappointed

vardogor,
@vardogor@mander.xyz avatar

they changed the $25 dollar tier to $10 recently. made it a lot more realistic for me, but i still wish it was lower

eclectic_electron,

People aren’t comparing it to alternatives, they’re comparing it to Google 5-10 years ago.

Google used to be astoundingly good at figuring out what it was you wanted, and finding out for you. Now there’s a lot more SEO garbage and meaningless fluff clogging every results page, and if your search could even remotely be related to buying something, it’s only products and ads.

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

I would agree it’s a little worse than it used to be, but the post implies it’s useless which is just false

petrol_sniff_king, (edited )

Dude, I switched from Google for the first time in my life a couple months ago because I couldn’t take it anymore.

Ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads, ads
Ai articles, Ai articles, Ai articles, Ai articles, Ai articles

The fact that google has a built-in graphing calculator just isn’t worth it.

I won’t forget this, actually: I was looking up what to do next in a game I was playing—very deliberately, I care a lot about spoilers—and the “people also ask” section implied, for no reason, this had nothing to do with what I wanted to know, that a character who died really early on apparently has things to say in chapter 9.

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Ok. You can’t really avoid spoilers on the Internet though. That’s kind of common knowledge

petrol_sniff_king,

I do. I’m a professional.

That stupid answers thing only got me once, maybe twice, because I don’t let it anymore.

This kind of thing is a lot easier to control, though, when your results are what you wanted and not what you didn’t.

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