EmperorHenry,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Trump is certainly better than Nikki Haley, Haley wants to dox the entire world.

thewut, (edited )

Are you guys kvetching about losing Trump…It was supposed to be our holocaust

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3c80f457-7dc2-4eaa-b107-fab9c4513e85.png

werefreeatlast,

LOL. Total land slide by just 15% of the votes …where the heck was the rest of the population at? PTA meetings?

CoffeeJunkie,

It was cold AF. They didn’t want to freeze. The entire Midwest…cold AF right now.

werefreeatlast,

The PNW is also just barely out of the freezer today. Lots of slushy black iced roads and such.

Schadrach,

Not just the Midwest - there was one weather station in WV that was reporting a colder temp than one of the stations in Antarctica for a bit earlier this week.

rusticus, (edited )

History. Since 1972, the Iowa caucuses have had a 55% success rate at predicting which Democrat, and a 43% success rate at predicting which Republican, will go on to win the nomination of their political party for president at that party’s national convention. Source: Wiki

Randelung,

Makes it easier to decide at the actual election. The "RINO"s might be swayed to not vote for drumpf when they might have for someone else.

therebedragons,

Anyone else looking into viable countries to move to if this shitshow happens again? Whats your top 3 list??

HowManyNimons, (edited )

The fashycons are taking over all around the world. They’ve managed to convince everyone that this shit economy is anyone’s fault but theirs.

hex_m_hell,

Neoliberalism is the gateway drug to fascism.

Zealousideal_Fox900,

Australian here. Planning my exit too. Probably Finland. Or maybe Ireland.

therebedragons,

Yea Ireland is on my short list. Maybe Germany, havent followed their recent politics too much though.

Zealousideal_Fox900,

Yeah, I have a sort of free entry to ireland due to it being in my blood but not 100 percent sure.

force, (edited )

netherlands, denmark, maybe germany, maybe finland. i’d most rather live in the netherlands or possibly denmark, although it’d probably make more sense for me to want to live in germany or finland because i don’t speak dutch or danish lmao. regardless though getting permanent residence in denmark or finland is practically a hopeless goal for a majority of people, so they’re basically out of the question

i can get slovak, maybe german citizenship based on descent (i’m in the process of getting the stuff i need from the slovak government to apply for citizenship but they really take their sweet time) and i’m mostly a software guy so it’d probably make the most sense to move to one of those, however the netherlands probably holds way better opportunities for me

for most people getting into another country (especially europe) is out of the question though, you either have to have extremely marketable work experience (like 3-5 years as an engineer or developer) or you have to happen to qualify for citizenship by descent and have the birth/marriage/death/citizenship/residence documents for it (e.g. anyone who had italian citizenship since 1860, anyone who lived in an area controlled by hungary ever since hungary existed, anyone who was polish 1920 or later, anyone who was czechoslovak or german for the past century, an irish grandfather)

therebedragons,

Yea citizenship would be a rough go in some places. Hopefully my work experience at least gets me in and see how it goes from there.

Blackmist,

Massive Coronary 2024.

The only sane choice.

endhits,

DeSantis is a much worse choice than trump. I would take trump over him any day of the week.

RememberTheApollo_, (edited )

Desantis has the veneer of sanity, and actually has a clue regarding how to make things worse. He knows exactly what he’s doing. Trump just flails about and expects underlings to figure it out.

ynthrepic, (edited )
@ynthrepic@lemmy.world avatar

My only hope is that people as morally insane as Trump are rare, and there may be a correlation between his sociopathic traits, and how seemingly incompetent he is.

What this hopefully means in practice is that even though this time around he will surround himself with yes-men over which he will have more control, few of them will be precisely like Trump and so not immune to actual concern for the future, and to Trump’s surprise will not all follow his insane ideas without question, as Trump clearly wants everyone to do. He can’t rule on his own. He does need some people, and people needing people requires at least a semblance of regard for others.

In this same way, even his stacked Supreme Court I think will still be likely to put America itself ahead of Trump and a victory that would make a mockery of their own institution, the constitution, and just general common sense.

It’s only a shred of hope, but one which might enable civil society to survive another Trump presidency, and if we’re really lucky, avoid it.

CaptPretentious,

I know nothing of DeSantis outside he’s running. Can you or someone share a tl;dr. It’s hard for me to imagine someone worse than Trump. But then again, never thought we’d have someone worse than George W…

BlackPenguins, (edited )

Desantis is basically a competent Trump. They both have terrible ideas but Desantis would be able to pull it off because he already has in ruining Florida.

Kellamity,

The short version is that he’s gutted public services in Florida and made life worse for nearly everyone there - while engaging in massive culture war bullshit to distract his base

Not to downplay that, it includes laws and discourse such as ‘Dont Say Gay’ and attacking school curriculums that are incredibly damaging. He’s the guy that flew refugees to Martha’s Vineyard to ‘make a point’

time.com/…/ron-desantis-florida-governance-essay/

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Good thing the DNC is picking a totally reasonable and non controversial candidate for the Democrats. Definitely not a straight up genocide supporter.

endhits,

Trump is a Zionist too dude.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. we are the point that both parties are Nazis’s.

Following this course of sliding right into Nazism we’ll have Adolf Hitler running for the Republicans and a Trump figure running for the Democrats. And then you’re all going to vote for the Trump guy because he’s not the Hitler guy.

fosho,

this fucking guy again. every single comment is some form of Biden genocide. we get it. we don’t like it either. but we aren’t so stupid that we think trump would be better. he would be so much worse. he would probably be genocide plus fascist.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

You’re all sticking your head in the sand pretending that only Trump would do genocide while Biden is actively committing genocide. It’s real time Holocaust denial here.

fosho,

after a decade of trump, if you’re advocating that he’d be better then you’re the only one doing the pretending around here.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

After Biden committing GENOCIDE you’re the only one pretending if you think you aren’t hitting yourself in the face just as hard as Republicans.

fosho,

trying to sound cool isn’t exactly an argument-winning tactic. you have no leg to stand on when the simple fact is that one candidate is FAR worse than the other.

yes the suffering in Gaza is severe. but gazans are not more important than everyone else and there is plenty of evidence to support the claim that trump in power will harm many more people than gazans.

unfortunately your skull is too willfully thick to accept or at least address this obvious point. so why not just resort to more insults if that’s all you got?

madcaesar,

Oh right, let’s support Republicans, they are the party of peace!

GTFO with your disingenuous bullshit. Republicans started TWO illegal wars, killed hundreds of thousands DIRECTLY and have supported Israel’s bullshit just as fervently.

Pretending like if Trump was in office he’d be stepping on Israel’s neck to stop is some of the biggest bullshit I’ve read online in a while.

Not to mention they Trump supports Putin a full on dictator currently engaged in ethnic cleansing.

I don’t know if you are a troll or just incredibly ignorant.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Last time I checked Biden bypassed congress to sell weapons to israel, not for Ukraine.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Trump is a genocide enjoyer, he goes way beyond supporting it.

Sibbo,

Isn’t the point of “conservatives” to tear everything down? Because then they just elected the right man for that.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Nah that’s just how they look from a sane individual’s perspective. They think they’re helping, it would be cute if it wasn’t so fucking sad.

mo_lave, (edited )

That’s an accelerationist or a nihilist. If the status quo is pro-immigration and pro-LGBT rights, wanting to keep this status quo will make you a “conservative” because you want to conserve the status quo.

People love to harp about the good ole days

They’re reactionaries.

Anticorp,

“Conservatives” haven’t wanted to conserve anything in a very long time. They want to prop up the rich with government subsidies, hurt the poor, control the women, and hopefully kill some sick people along the way. That’s a damned far sight from conserving traditional American values.

Senal,

i’d imagine a part of the problem is that at least some of them do in fact see those things as “traditional american values” so from their perspective they are conserving their version of reality.

Genuine question as i don’t actually know the answer, is conservatism considered to be the conservation specifically of “traditional” values. Like, is there an agreed upon timeframe in which these traditional values were held or is it more of a moving target sort of thing ?

Seasoned_Greetings, (edited )

I’m no expert, but I always thought the American brand “conservative” stood for “fiscal conservative”, as in, to save money by limiting government spending.

That definition lines up well with their actual policies which tend to be cutting government spending, tax cuts, downsizing government jobs, etc.

Not really conserving traditions. Although there’s plenty of that in their cultural identity.

Edit: to be clear, the party has long since moved past being actually conservative. The most accurate description they might have now would be the party of spite.

rusticus,
thesporkeffect,

The thing they want to conserve is a hierarchical society defined by wealth and privilege

tormeh,
Facebones,

This though. People love to harp about the good ole days but leave out that the good ole days were good cause only cishet white men could participate in the economy

lolcatnip,

Someone strapping on a suicide vest would be a more appropriate image.

gAlienLifeform,
@gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, it’s not just his supporters who will get hurt if he gets power again

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

The problem is I actually see Trump winning by breaking every system in the process and the ramifications will be, well, bad

OurToothbrush, (edited )

Honestly this is just liberal strongman politics.

Please learn to identify and complain about the things that are actually increasing fascism and not just be like “bad people might make the country bad if they’re in charge” Trump is a symptom not the disease.

Custoslibera,

What, in your opinion, is actually increasing fascism if not Trump?

OurToothbrush,

As empires collapse imperial violence turns inward. For a more in depth analysis I would read anticolonial theory or Marxist analysis of Nazi germany, like “economy and class structure of german fascism”

Custoslibera,

Hmmmm

It’s possible to be more than one thing driving fascism.

In the absence of a general worker uprising to bring about revolution (this isn’t going to happen before the election) stopping Trump is a fine alternative to stem fascism.

We know that fascists need a charismatic leader with unquestionable authority (Trump) may as well cut that head off the snake now.

Does that stop capitalist interests? No, their money and power is still there but it at least won’t be manifesting through a dictator.

Capitalist interests have operated just fine without a dictator.

OurToothbrush, (edited )

I mean we don’t have a dictator and we’re involved in killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians over the course of a month. Even if Trump is never elected again we keep sliding into fascism, and liberalism doesn’t really have a response to that besides to join in.

GreyEyedGhost,

So…threatening to retaliate against those who didn’t vote for him last election? Removing rights from various classes of people? Those kinds of things?

OurToothbrush,

Yes those are all indications of colonial violence turned inward.

Zoboomafoo,

You still need to treat symptoms

OurToothbrush,

And if you only treat symptoms, what happens?

Also no, in many cases you do not have to treat symptoms, and it can be damaging to do so. It’s not a good extension of the metaphor.

YeetPics, (edited )
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

only

Great, another ‘absolute’. I wish you could discuss in good faith.

.ml consistency lmao

NatakuNox,
@NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

Lol pick a candidate that is likely going to be in prison come election time! Geniuses!

riodoro1, (edited )

There is almost no chance they are gonna lock him up. He could openly murder someone with his own hands, on stage, and he would still be able to run in the elections.

jballs,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

Unfortunately, I think you’re probably right. We keep seeing it over and over again. The judicial system continues to move slowly with as many delays and roadblocks as possible. When judgements are made, they are stayed during an appeal so they have no teeth. The farce of the Supreme Court will never let anything bad happen to their dear leader. They will delay, delay, delay until Trump is either reelected - in which case he’ll pardon himself. Or until a new president is elected in 2028. If it’s a Republican, they’ll pardon Trump on day 1. If it’s a Democrat, the Republicans in Congress will find some way to force a presidential pardon in order to keep the government funded or some other bullshit.

I think there’s a 0% chance Trump ever sees a single day in prison. Even if none of what I said above happens, he’d get a slap on the wrist at worst. I would LOVE to be proven wrong. But I’m not holding my breath.

Zoboomafoo,

I heard that mentioned on MSNBC, 30% of the people who caucused for him say that they would not vote for him if he was convicted.

DontRedditMyLemmy,

30% of the people who caucused for him are liars

LillyPip, (edited )

Haven’t you heard? He’s the second coming of Christ and his cross is the US legal system.

I really wish I was kidding.

e: link

eestileib,

Zero chance he is in prison by election day.

Buttons, (edited )
@Buttons@programming.dev avatar

At this point the only things between Trump and a jail cell are:

  1. The courts must rule in the coming days (probably this month, Jan 2024) that Presidents are subject to criminal prosecution. We know Presidents are not subject to civil prosecution, but the courts are deciding about criminal prosecution now. (Trump argues it would be “bedlam” if Presidents were subject to the law).
  2. A jury decision in mid 2024. If that jury says “guilty”, it’s over, Trump is a convicted felon.
Wogi,

Which means he can’t vote for himself.

Convicted felons can be president.

Anticorp,

Oh, you mean the court that trump himself stacked in favor of the GOP? The same court that has voted along party lines in like 98% of their rulings? Impartial my ass!

Buttons, (edited )
@Buttons@programming.dev avatar

The immunity appeal that I’m referring to in #1 has 3 judges, none of which were appointed by Trump. (nbcnews.com/…/appeals-court-weighs-trumps-immunit…)

The case I’m referring to in #2 has a judge that was not appointed by Trump. (Tanya Chutkan)

Case #1 might eventually be considered by the Supreme Court though, and your criticism would apply there.

Also, Trump’s trial over mishandling classified documents is overseen by Judge Cannon, who Trump appointed, which is a sham. Cannon should have recused herself.

Jordan_U, (edited )

Trump may or may not eventually end up in prison, but it’s naïve after the past 8 years to assume that there are only two ways this could all shake out, and that you can predict them.

A possibility that will almost certainly be less absurd than whatever actually happens:

Trump wins a second term, manages to get the FedSoc 6 to rule that a sitting president can’t be imprisoned because it would violate separation of powers. So multiple states are just waiting for his term to end so they can actually arrest him. (Feds can’t arrest him because he has pardoned himself for all past, present, and future crimes)

Then in the last month of his presidency he takes a diplomatic trip to Russia and just never comes back.

Buttons,
@Buttons@programming.dev avatar

I don’t mean there are 2 ways this can shake out. I mean there are 2 legal barriers in the way. Once the courts rule that Trump can be prosecuted, then the trial date is set for spring. The judge is motivated to hold to that trial date. The prosecutors have their evidence and arguments ready for the jury.

On the possibility of Trump pardoning himself, it’s not clear that a President can pardon himself and the supreme court would probably end up having to rule on that.

If Trump is a convicted felon, then he probably can’t get enough votes to win, but I don’t know, the cult is strong with this one.

undercrust,

A man’s gotta have a dream

OurToothbrush, (edited )

Trying to prosecute him for his real crimes is honestly damaging the election chances of Biden, lots of voters with a vicarious persecution complex through Trump.

Signtist,

Most of the people I know who plan to vote for him think of that as a good thing. It’s the whole “drain the swamp” thing that he’s been rallying people behind for years; they think bad actors in the government are trying to hold Trump down, and him being in jail is just another attempt to do that - from their perspective, electing him even while he’s imprisoned would be a big “fuck you” to those bad actors.

It’s sad that they can’t see that Trump himself is the bad actor, but to most of them, Trump is their last hope to hold on to their beloved world of racism and misogyny, free of any “woke bullshit.” They’ll overlook anything he says or does at this point, since they don’t see any other way forward than through Trump.

Anticorp,

Yeah right. If he wins, he’s free. Shame on the justice department for not completing a single trial in FOUR FUCKING YEARS. Have they even started any of them? No way any of them are wrapped up before the election. The wheels of justice turn slowly. Yeah, yadda yadda yadda. They’re barely turning at all against this fat fucking loser.

Mirshe,

His lawyers have run out pretty much every option to delay trials, although several judges have seemed pretty damn complicit as well. I get wanting to make sure the case is as airtight as possible, but…the people they’re worried about pissing off with a case that isn’t entirely formed, were just going to be pissed off anyway.

creamed_eels, (edited )

Judge Cannon seems pretty ok to impede any progress she possibly can.

FlashMobOfOne,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

After decades of headlines like the one you just posted absolutely nothing has happened.

Trump is bulletproof and he knows it, and now, he doesn’t have to lie about how shitty his opponent in the race is.

deaf_fish,

Honestly, if you’re a republican, Trump is the only pic. I’m no fan of Republicans, but this is clearly the Republican party punching the Republican populace in the face.

ramenshaman,

If I for some reason were a republican I would have voted for Chris Christie.

madcaesar,

Sadly, it’s probably their least insane option.

dudinax,

Honestly, if you’re a republican, Trump is the only pic.

Why?

deaf_fish,

Best polling to beat Biden. If you want to win or to get conservative laws passed, that is the way. Last time Trump was president, he put in a bunch of conservative judges, he has a track record.

dudinax,

Biden only won because he ran against Trump. Put Biden up against an even half-way reasonable Republican and he’s toast.

deaf_fish,

I don’t disagree, which Republican candidate has better polling than Trump?

FinalRemix, (edited )

You haven’t been paying much attention to the Republican party as of late, have you? “Circle the wagons and toe the line” has been their schtick for a while now.

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