Budget is always a factor, but here’s mine so far…
Looking at a discovery flight for someone who’s expressed some interest in flying, a limited art print from someone’s favorite artist, potentially an inflatable stand up paddle board, and a 360 degree camera for others. Still a lot of searching to do but hopefully these can spark some ideas for others too
Or women could just lower their standards if they don’t think anyone is good enough for them. That’s basically what men have been told for ages, that women don’t need to go about changing themselves to meet the standards of men. Surely the same operates in reverse, no? If women don’t like their prospects, they can either lower their bar or stay single since men don’t need to change themselves to please women?
I mean, the point of the article is the women who are struggling to find suitable partners. The attitude that woman should just lower their standards (and yet again just accept higher workloads and lower efforts from their partners) is pretty antifeminist. The problem here isn't that they have unattainable standards, it's that a lot of men aren't putting in effort to meet those basic standards, for whatever reason.
Well, maybe they are looking in the wrong place. Or they just have unobtainable standards.
The article treats it like a onesided issue, which when you are dealing with people, it’s not. There isn’t an easy way of dealing with this issue and the ‘men bad’ vibe this article gives off isn’t adding to the solution. It doesn’t offer solutions, suggestions or even a second viewpoint.
The problem here isn’t that they have unattainable standards, it’s that a lot of men aren’t putting in effort to meet those basic standards, for whatever reason.
Are men obligated to meet those standards if they have no interest in doing so? Men don’t just exist for the sake of giving women someone to date, after all. And while the article was (I hesitate to say intentionally) vague about specifics, one thing it mentioned multiple times was holding a college degree. It’s hardly what I’d call “basic standards”, considering it takes a huge amount of time, and a fair deal of money to achieve. Of all the men I’ve talked with, myself included, that “standard” doesn’t seem to be prevalent, with the closest thing being “I guess it would be cool”.
At what point does the principle of “if everywhere you go smells like shit” start applying to these women who date but seem to never find a man that meet their standards? It only seems reasonable if nobody meets the standards, that the standards may be a major part of the issue.
And I don’t mean to say that women should just settle for men they don’t like, but “just stay single” is always an option, one men are told repeatedly whenever they struggle with relationships.
You have some good points I hadn't considered before, so thank you for that. It's definitely something I'll have to think about more. It's also worth mentioning that the difference between women who couldn't find a suitable male partner vs men who couldn't find a suitable female partner also really isn't very much - "nearly half" vs "one third", which was something I also wasn't really considering when I made my comments. Ultimately it seems like a complicated issue that isn't going to be fixed with one simple solution
Ultimately it seems like a complicated issue that isn’t going to be fixed with one simple solution
Now this I agree with wholeheartedly. My primary issue with the article is that it takes a grievance mindset rather than a problem solving one. It just reads like the women’s equivalent of some incel rant, in the sense that it externalizes the issue such that it’s always someone else’s responsibility to do something about, which doesn’t help solve anything.
The standard doesn't necessarily apply in reverse if you look at how the work is split between male and female partners in hetero relationships - it's often skewed that the woman does a lot more emotional work, household work, and childcare, on top of also having full time jobs. I think you're right though, if men aren't meeting women's standards, then women should either be content to be single, hook up with other women (for those who would prefer), or reexamine how important romantic relationships are for them.
if men aren’t meeting women’s standards, then women should either be content to be single, hook up with other women, or reexamine how important romantic relationships are for them.
I take issue with the part that is bold and italisied. Not sure what you are saying, but it seems like a gross misunderstanding how people work.
Obviously that part only applies to people who are bisexual/pansexual/gay. I'm not saying that hetero women should just become gay >.< Though I realize it sounds like that, it isn't what I meant.
Absolutely. Every time there’s a “men’s only” activity, other groups are quick to call out sexual discrimination.
There are some good things men can pick up from the queer community. They, of all people, play with what defines masculinity all the time. Queer women who want to be more masculine, trans men wanting to be identified as men, etc. They use aspects of masculinity to define themselves.
The thing with cis men is that for the longest time, masculinity has been defined through agressivity, violence, repression of emotions and domination. These are aspects that need to be removed in order to redefine masculinity.
Also, recently, men have been criticised and even mocked for various aspects of masculinity. Like the desire to be strong, liking certain things like sports or cars and trucks or action movies or horses or whatever, to dress a certain way, or just wanting to do general boy stuff.
But the one that hurts the most is how everyone is blaming everything the last bit negative on all men. Or pinning only a handful of men’s behavior on every man, ever. And basically saying that all men are inherently toxic and deserve to be eliminated. And as soon as someone speaks up and says “not all men” there always someone who’ll reply mockingly “nOt AlL mEN”, like it’s an invalid response to so much hatred and misandry.
Yes, a lot of men are toxic and patriarchy has hurt society in many ways. It also hurts men as well. But we have to differentiate between the good and the bad ones. I mean, women aren’t all angels either. And there are many other queer folk who aren’t nice and they probably have their own toxic traits. Basically everyone has their faults and some of the responsibility of the bad stuff should be shared.
The way I do it (cast iron pan on the BBQ, screamin’ hot at 700+C) is super delicious. So much so that I think I might fire up a steak this weekend. Gotta check the weather forecast to see if it’s worthwhile.
Nowt new here, Putin doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself. If it takes the entire population of Russia that’s a rice he’s willing to pay to be in power, he knows the moment he’s not at the top he’s dead.
Belittle isn’t feminine. It’s gender neutral and not quite the same. The difference between the phrasing is subtle, but there. Belittling is when we try to make someone feel less important or to just disparage them. To emasculate someone is to paint them as less masculine or weak. We do have a reverse of emasculating, though. Which, we dont really have a term I know of to describe the de-feminizing of a woman. Fortunately, society seems to mostly depart from the more toxic views as it pertains to less feminine women now than before, but largely the opposite view is still dominant in most of the world when it comes to men.
I haven’t been in a dedicated men only group chat but I can imagine that if you get the right guys in a group it might just be „that easy“. I think it’s a great space to try and model how you want to interact with your peers.
And I’m glad to hear that the author has that support group in his life :)
I personally also find it a bit easier to share heavy topics over texting rather than talking.
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