There are reasons to do with the history of this particular literary form, as well. It may be that, for a number of fair reasons, women are allowed to denigrate men in print, but not the other way around. “I think some of the things I get away with saying about men would seem a bit gross from guys, because of the obvious power imbalance,” Annie Lord, British Vogue’s dating columnist, told me. Women can write about dating because on a heterosexual date, society generally accepts that women are the underdogs.
Perhaps the presumption that the same privileges equally translate to different contexts plays a part. I don’t see any “fair reasons” listed here. I see a group that is allowed to say negative things about one, and another that is shut down for the same thing (but that they have fair reasons to be allowed to). Maybe nobody should be denigrating anyone and it is just, in itself, unfair to denigrate others?
On any dating advise site/community I don’t exactly see women as the “underdogs” with regard to support and who is ‘right’ in any given situation. The first examples that come to mind are reddits dating advice and “AITA” subs where I’ve seen more than enough examples of the old “switching genders completely changed people’s opinions” posts to not feel comfortable there.
Maybe nobody should be denigrating anyone and it is just, in itself, unfair to denigrate others?
I think this is a fair point and we should really avoid denigrating everyone. However, ignore any differences between any of the genders and their assumed roles is not helpful. There are differences we just need to recognize that one isn't better or more correct than the other.
P.S. the AITA subs are always kind of a mess. Especially with people justifying their terrible behavior.
AITA is garbage because it isn’t about finding the best course of action but about whether you can pretend that your behaviour is justified, which is not helpful.
However, ignore any differences between any of the genders and their assumed roles is not helpful.
This is part of what I was saying in the first bit. There are absolutely differences in genders that should be recognized and respected. But context is key. Assuming women are the “underdogs in heterosexual dating” that does not translate to talk about dating. In the context of dating advice and online discussions about relationships, I very much disagree that women are underdogs. But the author is using this, presumably, to support the prior sentence’s argument that women can “fairly” denigrate men in print for this reason.
But also, we’re not talking about dating, we’re talking about sex, and women are the definite underdogs when it comes to sex, or at least casual sex. The stats on who gets to orgasm through casual sex are just abysmal for heterosexual women… Maybe we all would benefit from sex columns for men more than we’d like to admit.
The amount of false info around, " it’s just much harder for women to orgasm" and " a lot of women simply cannot orgasm no matter what" is pretty easily disproven by orgasm rates in homosexual female couples, which leads me to believe it’s the men in the equation that lead to women having trouble orgasming, not some inevitability.
And this is all women are clear underdogs in sex before you even touch on the difference in dangers to men v women with sex /sexual violence/ coersion
Are you suggesting that those are valid reasons that “women [should be] allowed to denigrate men in print”? Because that’s the thing I was talking about.
I honestly do not understand what you are trying to say. Are you implying this comic is one of the “all men are bad” category? Are you parodying how incels would react to a post like this?
No. I’m just tired of all the blame men are getting. It’s like being a man makes you inherently a bad, evil person and a persecutor of women.
Men have their flaws, sure. And yes there is toxic masculinity. But at some point, blaming men all the time for everything is like they’re using them as scapegoats for their own shortcomings. Fait exemple, is it because of men that this author isn’t assertive?
And I also disagree with her other one about the mental load over responsibilities in her household and how men are lazy. And how, according to her, it’s all women who have this problem and all men are like this. In my household, I’m the one who takes care of these things. I’m the one who plans groceries, thinks about repairs, thinks about laundry, cleaning, dishes, cooking, etc. Yet my girlfriend used her fucking comic to point out to me that I’m the lazy one in the house somehow because I have a dick and balls and spend longer periods in the bathroom than her.
She has a problem with assertiveness and she blames men for her own shortcomings.
And I’m so sick and tired of the anti-men bullshit that it’s really affecting my self esteem and my perception of myself. I can’t express how I feel about this either because someone will just repeat some fucking anti-men text they read off of some feminist meme and mock me by saying “nOt AlL mEn”. As if “yes all men are bad”. I’ve seen girl friends post shit on social media where they said all men should die and even mocked articles about suicide rates in men. They also laughed as they reposted articles about men committing suicide.
At some point, when are we going to recognize there is some toxic feminists who are just outright mysandrists and there is nothing men will ever do to make them happy?
Or maybe that’s the solution isn’t it? Maybe I should just fucking kill myself and do all women a big fucking favor.
So? This happens to other men as well. This isn’t always men’s fault. It can be sexism in some cases, but in others it can be about keeping control over employees or not wanting to give promotions because the company wants to cut costs.
I’ve been fired for trying to be assertive once. I was sick of not getting better working conditions and better pay for the work I was doing compared to my peers and was laid off with some bullshit excuse. I was soon replaced with someone else who was paid less and didn’t complain. But I’m a dude. So…?
I know my shortcomings. I know that, like the author, I lack assertiveness. Maybe that explains why I face the same problem she does. Except, I’m a man. Should I also blame men for what’s happening to me?
Men face a lot of pressure from society. Society has a lot of expectations for men in general. Maybe that’s what’s driving up the suicide rate among men. Add to that the total lack of any support network for men, and lack of support for male victims of abuse. But I suppose we should blame ourselves for this as well?
You don’t represent men and certainly not me. If you feel personally attacked enough to write a novel about it in a Lemmy thread, maybe you are the problem.
I think you are conflating men with the patriarchy. These two things are different. Men are people, and people are diverse with unique thoughts and feelings. The patriarchy is a system that causes men and women to behave in gender conforming ways that are harmful to both.
This comic isn’t criticizing men as a whole, it’s criticizing the social conditioning that many men go through that make them unaware of how certain speech and actions impact women.
When comics like this are asking men to be mindful of benevolent sexism, it’s not saying ‘men are sexist’, it’s asking men to be aware of this phenomenon and take steps to stop themselves and others from perpetuating it.
You might not express benevolent sexism, but your friends, family, and colleagues might, and you can be an ally when by pointing it out when you see it.
Too often when women face subtle forms of sexism, they are prohibited from speaking up due to the downplay and backlash they get. Subtle forms of sexism are very hard to point out without being labeled as bitchy or oversensitive.
I know it may not feel like it but this is what healthy masculinity means in this day and age. There is nothing more respectable than men speaking up to other men and holding each other to higher standards. It’s incredibly powerful for men to speak up and support women in this because men who perpetuate benevolent sexism generally tend to listen to other men.
I’m sure there’s people out there that this is genuinely great advice for, but at least from my perspective, it just reads like an extremely long way to say almost nothing. “be out there and be confident” is like the most basic possible dating advice, ever, and is really only useful if you’re completely off track on things. And to some extent, I feel like the article did itself a disservice by making it entirely gender neutral, because like it or not, society still tends to be highly gendered, and the problems people face in dating tend to be different along gendered lines.
It’s like the “have you tried restarting your computer” of dating. It’s the most basic possible piece of advice. To that end, most people have heard it tons of times, especially if they’re in the market for dating advice. It’s not bad advice, just not anything special.
Sure on individual level but without knowing the person there is not much general advice to be given. It will always be general things like don’t be ugly or shy.
Some other instances that have come to mind: slrpnk.net - Seems like something of a natural fit considering they are also the home of !twoxchromosomes which is roughly the same size and number of active users lemmy.world - This is a fairly general community and so it makes some sense to be on a fairly general instance
I’m a user on slrpnk.net and thoroughly enjoy my home feed. Climate, nature, solarpunk futurism, memes, soil, activism, creative pursuits, anarchism, different kinds of liberation.
If you do decide to move; I’d be pleased to have you as part of my home instance
My lemmy “philosophy” is that generic centralization should be discouraged. I prefer more “category-like” centralization. This is not just to support my preferred usage pattern (browse and participate “local” on multiple instances), but to ensure that lemmy doesn’t evolve toward major centralized instances that end up just being just another clone of the various commercial platforms.
Centralization means less diversity in rules, less diversity in enforcement, and higher instance costs. I think the loss of diversity is just a bad idea, because it leaves less room for widespread experimentation. Higher instance costs could be a problem if instance owners find themselves needing to monetize the instance in order to remain solvent. The outcome is a generally less resilient system.
I enjoy a lot of communities on lemmy.world, but I’d recommend against moving a community into it. Centralizing more communities there doesn’t feel productive, and I don’t think it would help with user numbers.
If you do want to move, slrpnk is cool and I think this community could succeed there. Personally, I think the best solution would be to promote this community around the Fediverse regardless of if you stay on this instance or move to another one. Places like !communityPromo and the other ones listed here: lemmy.ca/post/5581032.
Thanks for thinking about these things and for working on the community!
ShoeOnHead primarily produces rightwing dogwhistle content. Her videos are generally not welcome here.
EDIT: More info for those curious: rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shoe0nHeadTLDR is that she’s pretty explicitly an antifeminist and has been for as long as she’s been in the public eye (since gamergate).
There’s a large portion of the left that just absolutely loathes the idea that someone might not perfectly fall in line, and thus brands everyone who they disagree with as some right wing psyop
The video is not addressing the specific argument in the article. The main argument in the article is that the interest in tradwives is harming men’s ability to function in the real dating world. That seems plausible to me. There are probably not that many women who are into being tradwives so it’s an outrageous expectation to normalize.
The video doesn’t address that thesis at all. It’s making more of a libertarian argument: “tradwives aren’t hurting anyone so leave them alone.” But even if women should be allowed to be tradwives, that says nothing about whether men and other women are harmed by the promotion of these regressive gender norms. At one point, the video shows a ton of examples of men wishing violence on tradwife women, for e.g. not having dinner done on time. Somehow, this YouTuber still doesn’t see how promoting this view of a women’s place is harmful.
I haven’t really heard anything about her since gamergate, and the anti-SJW/feminist days in the 2010’s. I have seen her pop up twice in a week, both times in places where anti-SJW beliefs would not be welcome.
Are her views/take fairly shallow and easily swayed, has she matured as a person and changed her politics, or is she just an online creator following where the trends are for views?
Are her views/take fairly shallow and easily swayed, has she matured as a person and changed her politics, or is she just an online creator following where the trends are for views?
I don’t think there’s been any significant change in her content. Notable that the person posting the video was a fresh account and that was their first comment.
I continue to wash Shoe despite a few frustrations. She’s not easily swayed or stupid, but does have a uniquely liberal take on everything. That is to say, often telling people to be more permissive of right wing. She has matured, but its hardened her views into this weird, both sides, dogwhistle-y brand of opinions. And yet she continues to cover important topics, just… In a way that leaves more to be desired.
I’m drawing a compromise with the argument that she makes content that dogwhistles right wing talking points.
Leftism isnt an obligation, no, but we are on solarpunk. And Shoe has been pushed to the left before. I find her drawing this liberal line is one if the most important aspects to her content.
I’m drawing a compromise with the argument that she makes content that dogwhistles right wing talking points.
Compromise is only valuable when the positions the compromise seeks to find ground between are both equally honest positions. And calling her “right wing dogwhistle content” is anything but. It’s just a dishonest excuse to discredit her for not perfectly riding the approved narrative. And just to add onto it, the guy who posted the video was immediately banned for it. Compromise isn’t the goal it seems. It’s to throw out and discredit dissent.
Leftism isnt an obligation, no, but we are on solarpunk
No, we’re on lemmy.ca. Just because the mod is on solar punk, it doesn’t mean that the community is. And lemmy.ca makes no claims of being a leftist instance, just a Canadian one.
And calling her “right wing dogwhistle content” is anything but. It’s just a dishonest excuse to discredit her for not perfectly riding the approved narrative.
She’s been producing antifeminist content while calling herself a progressive for a very long time. I fail to see how that’s not right wing dog whistling that is largely incompatible with the goals of this community.
For how much you hate her, you are as hell haven’t leveled a single actual point against her other than generic shit talking. Surely you can actually point to specific issues, no?
Great message, but heaven almighty this is a Big Kahuna of a repost! My comment is on your Lemmy post of a Tumblr Note of a Reddit comment and post of a Quora question and answer…
When dealing with small groups, I ask participants for their perspective by name. The loudest doesn’t go first, and everyone gets equal-ish time. That doesn’t scale to a large forum though.
I find the numbers in the article odd. 30 000 fled to Finland based on it, and that’s actually the amount of Russian nationals in Finland now. (80 000 Russian speaking). It’s as if there were 0 before the war, which cannot be true.
I think you overestimate how open minded the average person is. People are quick to reject an argument when it doesn’t conform to their world views. This comic is long because it tries to address most doubts about it. It’s slow to get to the point to avoid triggering the visceral reaction some people have to feminist theories.
Nobody who is not open minded is going to read long ass comic, that is contradicting their world view. Seems like preaching to the choir type of situation to me, makes the artis feel good but misses the audience that would profit from the message.
I think there are a good amount of people who are on the fence who would be persuaded by the detailed argument in this comic. The thing that the author is trying to convince people of is subtle and invisible to most people.
How do you tell people that this invisible thing exists and that they might be the one perpetuating it without putting them off?
It’s like asking your well meaning friends not to use ‘retarded’ as an insult. Sure, they aren’t saying this to hurt disabled people, but they are unaware that it does. The best way to change their minds isn’t by saying ‘you’re offensive’ and decry their character. It’s by slowly and gently telling them that you know they don’t mean to, but this thing that they say hurts people.
I’m not saying that we need to walk on eggshells around every offensive person, I’m saying that slow drawn out explanations without directly criticizing people is what works.
I think there are a good amount of people who are on the fence who would be persuaded by the detailed argument
I can see that point, thank you. I was more thinking about people being totally opposed, but yeah - for someone on the fence who is genuinely looking into the Argument that would be indeed a very nice comic.
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