Epicurus0319,

I hope we can build one that can use hydrogen fusion like the sun; such an energy source would make an excellent power source, even if small

venoft,
@venoft@lemmy.world avatar

It’s just a collider, not a fusion reactor. But there are multiple sites where they experiment with it.

Epicurus0319,

deleted_by_author

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  • Adalast,

    Ok… What are you even talking about? Most fusion solutions use the same second stage for power generation as many other power generation solutions. Heating water to spin a turbine. That is the same thing as all coal, natural gas, petroleum, and solar thermal. In a roundabout way you could even say hydro is just generating power from heated water if you abstract it to include the rain cycle that moved the water behind the dam. There is literally 0 “weakening” that is needed to generate power from fusion under the current predominant paradigms that are being researched. Tokomaks and inertial fusion both generate fusion and bleed the excess heat off to boil water. The only method with promise that does not use this method compresses colliding superheated plasma vortex rings in a strong magnetic field to induce fusion causing the plasma’s magnetic field to ramp up and push back against the containment field. The flux is captured directly into an electrical current that is shunted into a capacitor bank so it can be slowly discharged into the grid. This last method is the only one that has the potential to overload the grid if some sort of runaway event happens, though I don’t see how it would happen as every stage of it is reasonably confined by well-known physics.

    Epicurus0319,

    Ah I see, I should’ve worded that paragraph better

    rubpoll,
    @rubpoll@hexbear.net avatar

    As a Tales From the Loop TTRPG enjoyer, this rocks

    TankieTanuki,

    How about one that goes around the circumference of the Earth? That would be boss.

    Loudambiance,

    Just go full Dyson Ring and have one in space around the sun, can even use all the surface area to power it with solar panels.

    pascal,

    Imagine the amount of EV cars we could charge with a half functioning dyson ring…

    victron,
    @victron@programming.dev avatar

    That sounds expensive.

    ccdfa,

    It’ll pay for itself with the electricity bill savings!

    LambChop,

    Yeah, but you could build two for twice the price!

    ShimmeringKoi,
    @ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

    This fucks, way better use of 22 billion dollars than usual

    Kanda,

    But we could kill kids in the middle east somewhere for that money!

    lightnsfw,

    Just toss the middle east kids in the super collider.

    Fish,

    But that will puts dents in the super collider. Then we will need another super collider.

    fossilesque,
    @fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

    I see no downsides. MORE COLLIDERS.

    Tankiedesantski,

    Physics class: “Imagine a perfectly spherical cow moving on a frictionless surface…”

    IDF physics class: “Imagine a perfectly spherical bomb moving towards a frictionless Palestinian hospital…”

    HawlSera,

    When do we admit that maybe Dark Matter just doesn’t exist?

    FastAndBulbous,

    We don’t because we have experimental evidence for it’s existence.

    agent_flounder,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    I would argue that we have evidence for which the theory of dark matter and dark energy is a fairly suitable theory.

    FastAndBulbous,

    That’s all any theory in physics is. You don’t see an electron, you observe what it does.

    agent_flounder,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    Sure, yes, but my point was that we don’t have evidence specifically for the existence of dark matter.

    We have evidence that is not explained by visible, detectable mass.

    Dark matter is the current favored theory which happens to explain discrepancies between what is observed and what is expected.

    But I don’t think we can logically conclude dark matter is the only explanation, which is what your original statement seems to imply. It is the best explanation that we have so far.

    If we place objects on the dining table the night before and observed them lying on the floor the next morning, we can’t claim “we have evidence for sleepwalking residents.” There may be another theory that explains it, such as: the cat is knocking the things off the table. We need additional evidence to determine which theory fits or else come up with a new theory.

    Hopefully I am making sense here lol

    FastAndBulbous, (edited )

    But it is visible, it’s visible in terms of gravitational effects. We can “see” the effects of dark matter. That is evidence specifically for dark matter, i.e. matter that is very hard or impossible to detect via the electromagnetic spectrum but is observable through gravity.

    Dark matter is the explanation, the question is more what form does it take.

    It just takes a bit of acknowledgement that actually the EM spectrum is not the only way to view the universe. In fact it’s just one of four (maybe five) fundamental forces. We’re just used to that being the default for seeing because it’s how we physically see. It’s an anthropocentric bias to say something doesn’t exist because we can’t view it via EM radiation despite the fact gravity is clearly showing it to us.

    You could use your logic to argue against the existence of black holes. We don’t see them by definition but they are most certainly there.

    agent_flounder,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    I meant “visible” as in EM spectrum.

    We can “see” the effects of dark matter.

    I am well aware and I have already said as much.

    I’m not sure why you’re missing my point.

    Wikipedia:

    “In astronomy, dark matter is a hypothetical form of matter that appears to not interact with light or the electromagnetic field. Dark matter is implied by gravitational effects which cannot be explained by general relativity unless more matter is present than can be seen,…”

    Unless you’re aware of some case where dark matter has interacted with light or EM fields?

    So we see these gravitational effects that either means general relativity falls apart under conditions we have yet to identify or there is more mass than we can detect with the EM spectrum.

    I’m not arguing against the existence of dark matter. You’re misunderstanding my intent.

    I’m not even arguing. I’m just pointing out that your original statement isn’t quite correct.

    But Dark Matter is a great scientific theory. It probably will hold up. I can’t wait to see what we learn next!

    Anyway I probably shouldn’t have even responded because it doesn’t matter in the big scheme of things and my thumbs are tired from arguing against bigoted assholes in other places (I’m on a phone) so… peace

    FastAndBulbous,

    I would argue that Wikipedia is wrong or misguided. There is no serious debate about whether or not dark matter exists. I also think you’ve completely missed the point of my argument regarding the EM field just being only one way to detect the existence of things.

    HawlSera,

    No we don’t

    FastAndBulbous, (edited )

    We have gravitational evidence. We can only ever infer the existence of anything. An example of this is we didn’t actually see the Higgs Boson we just deduced it’s existence from the cascade of interactions that happens when particles collide. Similarly we can deduce from the gravitational evidence that dark matter exists.

    Zehzin, (edited )
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Well then we better figure out where tf is the 80% of the matter in the universe is hiding.

    Aermis,

    When you admit that night time doesn’t exist simply because you’re not there to observe it while you sleep. We know somethings there. We know there’s matter that isn’t adding up. We just don’t know what it is.

    agent_flounder,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    Easy. When scientists come up with a verifiable theory that explains observed gravitational effects in the universe that can’t be explained by general relativity, given visible matter.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

    HawlSera,

    I mean at this point, dark matter just seems like reaching at this point. Might as well be a neurologist searching for the human soul.

    agent_flounder, (edited )
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    While we haven’t detected dark matter in a lab, it isn’t on the same level as a metaphysical soul.

    I’m not aware of any physical phenomena for which a soul is the best theory currently available.

    Whereas dark matter is the best theory so far to explain observed gravitational effects^1 that cannot be explained by general relativity and detectable matter alone. Yes, it may be due to something else (other theories exist and maybe someone will come up with another better one).


    1 includes: “formation and evolution of galaxies,[1] gravitational lensing,[2] observable universe’s current structure, mass position in galactic collisions,[3] motion of galaxies within galaxy clusters, and cosmic microwave background anisotropies.” - wikipedia

    Gabu,

    That’d be a valid comparison, if there were any evidence of a soul existing. The effects of matter, on the other hand, are clearly visible - or invisible, in the case of dark matter.

    HawlSera,

    Yes but at the same time we used to have all the evidence in the world indicate that planet Vulcan was just behind the sun, and then it turned out that no it wasn’t. If Dark Matter can’t be found no matter what experiment we do. Then maybe we are mistaken about its existence

    FastAndBulbous,

    Just because something seemingly doesn’t interact with EM fields doesn’t mean it isn’t there, it’s just something that only really interacts with the rest of the universe on a gravitational level.

    shiveyarbles,

    The next step… a human collider

    WoefKat,

    A large hard-on collider!

    Yes I know someone already made that joke:)

    Zoop,

    Hey, I think I’ve seen that porno before!

    At least the first part, anyway. I never finished it…

    detectivesniffles,

    you mean the ufc?

    Pixelologist,
    @Pixelologist@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Cars?

    Amends1782,

    Event Horizon?

    bazingabrain,
    @bazingabrain@hexbear.net avatar

    so theyre building black mesa irl?

    SchizoDenji,

    No it’s SERN. Obviously they’ve figured out the time travel.

    Cowbee,

    gooifies your banana

    ComRed2,

    goes back in time to change your gender

    Yes please.

    arefx,

    God I love the half life universe

    bloubz,

    The transmutation circle is massive this time. We can’t fail the French-Swiss genocide.

    (Btw I’ve worked on the Atlas project on the LHC, projects are always delayed)

    Draegur,

    i hope someday we construct a collider that spans the entire circumference of the earth. But we’d probably have to build one that spans the circumference of the moon first, and then maybe mars, since the oceans are going to be a bit of a doozie to work around that we don’t have the technology for, whereas the interior of a collider is supposed to be evacuated, so, the moon almost kinda already handles that for us. heat might be an issue of course, but if we can figure out thermal radiator panels that can dump the heat straight into space, maybe we could pull it off…

    mars would address the heat issues, but those dust storms are no joke and the dust itself is microscopic toxic/caustic razors and it’ll try to get in everywhere and ruin fine instruments it touches. Moon dust is also really bad but there’s no wind to kick it up on the moon obviously…

    but damn. DAMN. imagine the fucking science we could get done with a LUNAR-SCALE PARTICLE COLLIDER!!!

    winterayars,

    Gotta build it as an orbital ring.

    victron,
    @victron@programming.dev avatar

    Also, maybe add some biomes, oceans and wildlife. And absolutely no parasitic life forms trapped in there.

    Quadhammer, (edited )

    Hear me out okay. hits blunt Dyson ring. Maybe we start building it out between earth and Mars. We dig a big ass hole into Mars core and use some kind of laser technology to focus radiation into it perhaps “jump starting” the core. Or maybe we use some kind of cable and gymbal system to run a hard wire into it. hits blunt Then meanwhile we’re crashing comets and shit into it to get us some oceans and atmosphere, badabing badaboom we got earth 2.0

    victron,
    @victron@programming.dev avatar

    You should put that blunt down, buddy.

    fossilesque,
    @fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

    never.

    Draegur,

    Well check this out: if it’s big enough and can collect enough solar energy, it can be a self-powered gargantuan electromagnet and CREATE a magnetosphere for Mars itself. And the moon has a higher silver content than earth, which a) won’t tarnish in the vacuum of space and b) is more conductive than copper or gold!

    Aluminum alloy structures, silver circuitry, we could build this thing without sending ANY of it’s raw materials from earth. It’s all already up there waiting for us… … Some assembly required :p

    Quadhammer,

    I’m sorry I’m just now seeing this reply because that is fascinating

    marcos,

    There’s probably opportunity to do some really large colliders in space, for much cheaper than on any celestial body.

    But then, people are having a really hard time imagining the fucking science we could get done with a lunar-scale particle collider. That’s why the merely 100km one isn’t getting any money.

    Epicurus0319, (edited )

    The Moon’s daytime is half a month long and can reach 120 C so we’d need some pretty powerful heat shielding. And there’s no ozone layer to protect the electronics from radiation, and I’m pretty sure the Moon orbits outside of Earth’s magnetosphere. And the shielding used for such a project could also be used to fix climate change here (and terraform Venus later) with orbital parasols. And whatever unimaginable technology we’d need for such an ambitious project may as well be used to run a grid of electromagnets and power lines across Mars to give it a magnetic field

    Mohaim,

    Most proposals for moon colonies are either built underground or covered up with a thick layer of regolith for both of the reasons you mentioned. It’s very likely a collider would also be built underground for the same reasons. Digging a many-miles-long tunnel on the moon with the awful properties of moon regolith to deal with would have its own set of challenges though.

    Epicurus0319,

    Yeah. I hear NASA and India are planning to send 3d-printer robots to lava caves to seal them off, cover/get rid of all moon dust and build permanent bases there (but as of now the priority seems to be researching the polar water-ice and using moon rocks to study what the early solar system’s geology was like)

    CarbonIceDragon,
    @CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

    Now I’m imagining placing a ring of gigantic dyson-sphere powered magnets in an intergalactic void to create the final and ultimate supercollider, the size of a galactic supercluster

    Draegur,

    that would legitimately be so fucking cool, but I think at those scales we’re actually encroaching on things that truly are physically impossible. If it takes light entire geological eras to move through such a system, any hope of maintaining physical integrity throughout its length is … exceedingly unlikely. Like, at ranges THAT vast, pretty sure the expansion of spacetime itself would rip it open…

    … but i’m still enjoying imagining it :3

    CarbonIceDragon,
    @CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

    Does it actually have to maintain physical integrity as a single structure? If it’s not got a vacuum chamber due to relying on the ambient vacuum, then each section of magnets need not physically touch, so the individual components need only use some of the energy from their power source to actively steer themselves into formation rather than rely on material strength to hold together.

    Draegur,

    I would expect so on the basis of precision. At scales that large, space itself becomes an unreliable medium…

    tryptaminev,

    I think on earth is preferential, and you’d have to build it underground anyways in order to shield it from interference.

    grue,

    I think on earth is preferential

    Something something “resonance cascade.”

    BastingChemina,

    Even underground there is tons of issues. One for example is that the ground is having tides.

    As the moon passes above is the ground is moving by several cm so it has to be compensated by the collider.

    cynar,

    At the energies involved, it’s akin to a bacteria interfering with a supersonic goods train. The only bit that needs shielding is the detector systems, and that’s not THAT hard to do in space. At least if you’re at the point of building a space based accelerator.

    Zehzin,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Fuck it, orbital collider. Earth deserves a cool ring

    agent_flounder, (edited )
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes. Encircling the Sun

    italien,
    @italien@lemmy.world avatar

    queue halo theme

    018118055,

    Linear collider to Proxima Centauri

    KittyCat,

    If gravatons are a real particle, we’d need one on on the order of earths orbit around the sun to see it. Maybe someday lol.

    Donjuanme,

    Or a different mechanism of detection,

    rckclmbr,

    Why do we need to do it around a planet? Origin of Halo confirmed

    Evotech,

    Halo

    Just gonna throw that out there

    bingbong,

    Master Chief, we need you for one last mission >!bro!<

    DragonTypeWyvern,

    We need this one to undo the timeline shift the last one caused

    Draegur, (edited )

    Yeah everything’s been kinda fucked ever since, hasn’t it… i mean… it was 2008 right before obama being elected and i really don’t think the “correct” path of the future would have involved r-money or mccain winning so at least SOME shit would be the same, but still…

    Supervisor194, (edited )
    @Supervisor194@lemmy.world avatar

    LHC didn’t start seriously smashing shit (beyond previous energies done by other colliders) until after 2010 though. I think everything went tits up about 2012, tbh - the year they found the Higgs Boson. I kind-of jokingly subscribe to the idea that the world ended. I mean, it just checks so many boxes to me, it truly seems that the universe as it stands right now is fundamentally different than it should be after the passing of one single decade.

    Gabu,

    We accidentally changed the fabric of the Universe by observing it.

    Draegur, (edited )

    okay i can DEFINITELY agree with you about 2012, shit’s been super fucking weird since SPECIFICALLY that year.

    the worst day of my life was December 22nd 2012 and I remember it very clearly because I couldn’t figure out WHY.

    I just felt awful to a degree i have NEVER felt before or ever again since. Not even once. Not even a little.

    It was a distinct watershed moment that divided my entire life into “before” and “after”.
    I figured it was just some freak hormonal imbalance that walloped me out of nowhere but it’s weird that that was the only time and that it coincided with such a distinct … difference in how the world was between ‘before that’ and ‘after that’.

    now, the higgs boson event was on a different date, certainly, but that day… i will never be able to forget it.

    SchizoDenji,

    We need to get the divergence number above 1.

    pigup,

    This meme got Sabine hossenfelder bricked up

    bmsok,

    I’d quark off to that.

    Shardikprime,

    Bro how we gonna get those extra flavors

    barrbaric,

    I agree, this is a shame.

    We should build an even bigger one.

    DarkenLM,

    We need to build one around the entire Earth!

    ShimmeringKoi,
    @ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

    I demand a Dyson CERN

    AOCapitulator,
    @AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

    Mfw this pipe dream costs 22 billion and we just gave Israel 105 billion to keep genociding

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