They’re not doing like proton and close basic stuff like IMAP and SMTP as a way to force you on the official apps
I especially love the feature where you can bounce emails based on domains, keywords or TLDs. My spam folder is finally empty. IMHO bounce back spam is much better, as the spammers get a response that the address is invalid and hopefully stop wasting their limited computing resources on that address.
Zoho is not open source, but proton is a “fake” open source that is mostly used for marketing: they opened only the UI, which communicates with a proprietary protocol to a proprietary server - useless. They also reject or ignore any pull request on GitHub.
i started with the mail basic (10 euro yearly for 10gb) but then because i switched from “secondary email that forwards to gmail” to “primary email that imports from gmail”, i had to move to the more expensive plan
I mean, that’s going to be a risk you take with any hosted service. I currently self-host my contacts and calendar, but I have no interest in hosting my own email again.
I don’t self host my email either. I got my registrar, DNS and email separate from each other so if any of them goes bad I can switch with minimum fuss.
But that makes it all the more important to be able to download all your mail from your provider.
Proton currently has two proprietary things you can use to download, a “bridge” PC app that pretends to speak IMAP, and a download tool. The bridge will be discontinued after they launch their propeietary PC mail app so that leaves just the proprietary download tool, which only does .eml. format.
That’s a very broad question that depends a lot on your usage. My needs may be different from yours.
I’m currently using Migadu because:
Unlimited domains, mailboxes, accounts and aliases for a flat fee. I’m managing accounts for myself as well as family and extended family members and it comes out much cheaper this way than services that ask $5-10/account.
Very nice management interface with all the bells and whistles but with reasonable defaults and easy to use.
The company is based in Switzerland and the mail hosted in EU (France).
Standard email service with everything you’d expect (the regular protocols, spam protection, webmail, full compatibility with clients etc.)
They’re not doing like proton and close basic stuff like IMAP and SMTP as a way to force you on the official apps
The reason Proton cannot do IMAP/SMTP is that they cannot read your emails which is required for both. That’s a feature, not a bug.
PM works with any app as long as the app implements their custom protocol for which there are at least two FOSS implementations as a reference.
proton is a “fake” open source that is mostly used for marketing: they opened only the UI, which communicates with a proprietary protocol to a proprietary server - useless
While I’d also prefer their back-end to be OSS, it’s not nearly as critical as the clients.
As a user, it doesn’t make a difference. I’m paying for an opaque service either way.
All the interesting stuff (E2EE, zero access storage) happen in the clients anyways. The BE is fairly uninteresting; it’s a mail server + zero-access encryption + Proton account handling. If you really wanted to build a mail service similar to Proton, you could build that yourself and probably would have to anyways.
i think instead the opposite. The backend is the real interesting part, and the only way that we can be sure that “they cannot read the emails” (they arrive in clear, saved with reversible encryption and they have a key for it - if you use their services to commit crimes they will collaborate with the law enforcement agencies like everyone else)
imap/smtp can be toggled with a warning, if that’s really their concern. As of now i have the feeling that’s instead blocked to keep users inside (no IMAP = no easy migration to somewhere else) or to limit usage (no SMTP = no sending mass email)
The backend is the real interesting part, and the only way that we can be sure that “they cannot read the emails”
While I’d still prefer it, OSS can’t really help with that because what’s really required here is remote attestation.
That is an unsolved problem to my knowledge; there is no way to know which software they’re actually running. Even if they published the source code, they could trivially apply a patch in their deployment that stores all incoming email somewhere and you’d be none the wiser.
Even if they published source code and could somehow prove to you that they’re running a version derived from it, you would still not be safe from surveillance as one could simply MITM all connections. See i.e. notes.valdikss.org.ru/jabber.ru-mitm/.
That’s likely one of the reasons they do everything they can to make PGP accessible to every user.
imap/smtp can be toggled with a warning, if that’s really their concern
It’s plain and simply not how their service works. They’d have to build most of their service a second time but unencrypted.
It’s like asking Signal to build in support for IRC; it does not make sense for them to do that in any way without malicious intent needed.
no IMAP = no easy migration to somewhere else
You have IMAP access via the bridge. That’s what it’s for.
Zoho and PM have two entirely different reasons for existence. If you don’t want E2EE (assuming the other sender is on PM) then by all means, use Zoho. And IMAP isn’t E2EE compatible in the slightest, what they’re charging for is the decryption bridge that makes it work with an IMAP client. They had to come up with that, it’s not just a switch you flip at PMs end that makes IMAP work.
I’m definitely a fan of Gitlab pages for simple webpages I just want on the Internet. It’s nice to have the code hosted anyways (gives me that off site back up safety so my stuff at home can go down if needed).
I had been running Nextcloud on an old laptop using Ubuntu, but that machine died. I have a Windows PC originally built for gaming that I am considering using for Nextcloud. Anyone have any experience with NC and Windows? Thought on the DB switch on Windows?
100% agree with tofubi, Docker on Windows is a form of self-abuse, like cutting yourself. It’s a train wreck for anything other than a little bit of testing for development work. You will come away with a bad taste in your mouth about Docker, I avoided containers for years because I started with them on Windows docker.
I’ve run a lot of different scenarios with docker, what I’ve come down to as the cleanest and easiest to maintain is Debian 12 with the Docker convenience script. It’s fast, hassle free, and doesn’t have a bunch of layers of weirdness like using Ubuntu Server with a docker snap that makes troubleshooting a nightmare.
for anything other than a little bit of testing for development work.
It’s really awesome for development work, though. Visual Studio has built-in Docker support, so I can run my app and its unit tests on both Windows and Linux (via Docker) at the same time on the same system during development.
I use docker in vscode for latex. It saves me the trouble of having to install texlive on my system. I have a task defined that mounts my sources in and runs the compilation in the container.
ive tried to get nextcloud working several times and it just seems to never work for some reason… maybe i should set it up on a pi ive got laying around instead of my main server lol
that is… surprising. not that i don’t believe you, snap just doesn’t have a good track record, lol. ill have to research if it’s feasible to run a snap package on a debian server, though.
I know snap isn’t popular among Linux nerds, but I was really having issues with the AIO docker setup and at the time I didn’t have the time to troubleshoot/fight it. I needed to give my family a file drop link to share photos for a memorial service.
I figured, the snap package was recommended on their site, maybe it won’t be horrible. To my surprise it was incredibly easy, has been rock solid, never had performance issues, and it’s always up-to-date.
Snap may suck for some use-cases but this one seems to be right in it’s wheel house.
im not sure / cannot recall. it’s been a few months since i last tried to install it and it kept erroring out. im definitely strongly considering looking back into it though, it’s just that reverse proxying to the container was a nightmare… it still haunts my config, lol
I don’t fully understand what you’re saying, but let’s break this down.
Since you say you get an NGINX page, what does your NGINX config look like? What exactly does the NGINX “login page” say? Is it an error or is it a directory listing or something else?
That’s why people keep asking you for your nginx config since when you just say nginx, people are expecting that you are using just nginx, and configuring it through text files.
I’ve never used an Apple TV, but my smart TV is a Roku and it does most of the things you’ve described. I use Crunchyroll and Tubi and a few other streaming apps including Apple’s. I use Prime Music and it has like 99% of the albums I want to listen to. Obviously it doesn’t have Apple Arcade, but I mostly just play games on my phone anyway. I even put a Roku box on an old CRT TV that I use sometimes for watching older shows in SD format lol! I don’t know if this is the type of answer you were looking for but I hope it’s helpful.
As does my fire stick, and even my Vizio smart TV … all except the Apple Arcade
I’ve bent thinking about moving in the other direction. I try to avoid privacy abuse of the SmartTV and Fire Stick is being enshittified, so what should I use? AppleTV seems interesting to try plus games may be fun
I have tried Roku, Fire TV, Chromecast (not the new models with an interface), and AppleTV. So far Apple TV is the cleanest without ads or sponsored content on the home screen.
When I switched my family from predatory directv, this was obviously a question I had, and I ended up going with chromecasts (gen 2 and 3/ultra). Once I showed them how to use their phone as the controller, it immediately clicked, which was fantastic. I thought about an atv or an android box, but that would involve multiple profiles and remembering to switch when someone else wanted to use it (android TV boxes have this buried in the system settings; and I’m the only one with an apple account). Ads were a showstopper for me too, so the pictures/art on the cc when idle was great.
Understood about the ads / sponsored content. I’ve not used anything but an ATV, but I’ve heard similar (ads, interface, etc.). If I come up with a different solution, I will revive the post and let folks know. Thanks.
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