Not sure if it’s a factor for you but roku tries to phone home a lot more than anything else on my network (or perhaps my firewall just catches it more than other devices and apps). Otherwise roku is pretty good.
Nvidia shield tv is better though. It’s the best set top box. Made even better by replacing the default launcher/ home screen (android TV default launcher now has 2/3 or more of the screen taken up by ads or “recommended content” which is just ads).
One of the concerns is the current state of “privacy” with these devices. Interesting that you can mod the Shield (as mentioned by a couple of others as well). Good to know, even if I get one just to tinker / experiment. Thank you so much!
You might want to use a code block instead of bullet points for your table, the way you presented it is unreadable but I found the info on your blog page.
One of my criteria for video formats is the portability. Like sometimes I might watch something through a web browser which natively supports x264. Yeah x265 provides better compression, and AV1 certainly looks interesting, but they both require the addition of codecs on most of my viewing devices and in some cases that’s not possible.
For most cases I’ve found that CRF25 with x264 works reasonably well. I tend to download 720p videos to watch on our 1080p TV and don’t notice the difference except in very minor situations like rapid motion on a solid-color background (usually only seen on movie studio logo screens). Any sort of animated shows can go even lower without noticeable degradation.
If you have Apple users at home, the integrated experience and the video quality is going to be very hard to match from other platforms. My parents use Chromecast and it takes so many more steps to send content on to their media system. The video quality when casting also suffers a little, though that may be because they’re using cheap ISP router AP combo box, and I’m using Ubiquiti APs instead. Having said that, I do think the A15 processor in the most recent model is an overkill in the graphics performance department, so I wouldn’t completely rule out device capability compared as the cause of video quality difference.
Based on my readings, I think most recent high end nVIDIA Shield Tv Pro is the only closest in terms of raw performance and even then it may be a bit behind. Tegra X1+ found in the Shield Pro is on Maxwell architecture, which is older than GeForce 1080 series’ Pascal architecture, if I’m not mistaken. This would date it to around 2015-ish; whereas the previously mentioned A15 processor in most recent version of AppleTV 4K was introduced in 2021 with iPhone 13 series.
And with my luck, the day I buy a Shield is the day they announce a new one :) Luckily it’s just me, so I’m the only to complain if I do something dumb, ha! I’ll start keeping an eye on the Shield, as I’m not in a rush to buy / change.
ATV is the only box I recommend. I’m anti-Google, don’t trust Amazon (and now their service is going to do ads on a paid Prime membership), and Roku has major privacy issues at least in the past. Curious why you’re seeking an alternative to Apple.
I’m curious why you would trust Apple and not the others you have listed. All of them will do literally anything to just earn more money and exploit you as much as possible.
Apple, the company that has by far the worst anti-consumer practices when it comes to technology and is actively lobbying against you being able to own your products?
I mean, neither of you is wrong. On user privacy, Apple is probably the least worst of the big providers. At the same time their business model is to lock in users to their platform and hardware. “Once you’ve gone Mac you’re not going back” is the result of a deliberate design choice on Apple’s part.
Sounds to me like OP is aiming to bypass the entire corporate cloud service mess by going self-sufficient via FLOSS?
Apple is a hardware company first, not an advertising and services company like Google and Roku, and not a literal massive online retailer like Amazon.
Apple TV is the only one that doesn’t have ads on its home screen. I use an Apple TV to play all my physical media that has been ripped to mov and re-encoded with handbrake
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted to hell. The Apple TV ui used to be really nice, but when they launched Apple TV+, it turned into this garbage interface that’s terrible to navigate with an absolute garbage remote that took them years to fix (butterfly keyboard anyone?)
Before tv+, the Apple TV was a platform with apps for the services you wanted to use. It was simple and intuitive. Want to watch Netflix, open the Netflix app.
Then with tv+ they turned the whole thing into this inception bullshit. Sure you still have apps, but you also have tv plus with apps inside the app and obfuscation as to what’s watchable and what isn’t without subscribing to whatever rando service.
I used to love Apple TV. It just worked. For reasons unrelated, around four years ago we switched to Roku. Well, now, on our tcl Roku tv, which is only four years old, the Roku software runs like hot garbage.
We still have an Apple TV, (4K, dunno which one exactly, but around 6 years old). So instead of buying a whole new tv, which other than Roku’s garbage software, is a perfectly functional tv, I decided to hook up the Apple TV.
I wasn’t thrilled about the idea of using that trash touch panel remote that came with it, but was kinda excited to get back to the clean ui that I remembered.
That’s when I discovered all this inception bullshit. And Apple’s new inability to recognize that I’m logged in to my Apple/iCloud account on the Apple TV device. It kept prompting me to log in every five minutes or so, but then when affirming I want to log in, it would tell me I can’t log in, EVEN THOUGH I WAS LOGGED IN ON THE APPLE TV.
After 20 minutes of that bullshit I tossed the Apple TV back in the box it came from and installed Kodi on a raspberry pi. That’s my new smart tv box.
FWIW, I think there is a slow push towards a consolidated “TV” experience which may or may not have started as result of Apple launching Apple TV+. Sometime over the last several years, there have been a push towards consolidating the streaming content into one place, so users would theoretically get a unified search and viewing experience. I think the most recent version of tvOS even did away the iTunes Store in favor of having that integrated directly in the TV app.
However, I said may or may not have started as result of Apple TV+ service because that seems like a consistent trend across the board. Even in Plex, I do a search, I get a bunch of content that they’re trying to redirect me towards (Plex’s own FAST TV service, and maybe even purchase else where if memory serves).
None of these negates what you’ve said though. It has nothing to do with TV+ service, and dude could’ve just ignored the TV app and used the Plex app if that’s their streaming source. In fact, Plex cannot integrate into the TV app because Plex cannot provide searchable metadata about content on your server to Apple in a unified fashion — vaguely recall reading something about Apple requires app to give one search end-point that will return one search result to Movie X, and there’s no way for Plex to differentiate my version of Movie X on my server from your version of Movie X on your server. So even the whole TV app thing is kind of moot.
All of your points are great, but don’t consider that I was an Apple TV+ subscriber, so I needed the tv+ app.
Jellyfin is one of my streaming sources, and I was intending to use the Swiftfin app on tvOS, along with tv+ app and apps for the other services I subscribe to. With Kodi I’m now just hitting my local library directly, and using the Kodi add ons for the other services I subscribe to.
@prettybunnys, yeah, I was being hyperbolic and overly dramatic in my previous comment.
However, what is true in my experience (which I know is not everyone’s experience) is that:
The Roku software on my four year old tv is now unusable. It is slow, routinely locks up and freezes in playback and/or navigation, necessitating a replacement smart tv solution of some sort.
I thought that solution could be the Apple TV 4K I already have.
The Apple TV 4K has a number of software and hardware issues that make it unusable for me.
Those issues include:
That touchpad remote. My butterfly keyboard mention is referring to the fact that Apple is well known for standing ground for years on their dumber hardware decisions. The touchpad remote was the default and only remote you could get for an Apple TV for six years (2015-2021). The butterfly keyboard was the only keyboard option on MacBooks for five years (2015-2020). The Magic Mouse with a charging port on the bottom is still the default Magic Mouse you get with a Mac. The Magic Mouse was also introduced in 2015 (going on nine years now).
The login issue I mentioned is the biggest software issue. Despite being logged in to my Apple/iCloud account in tvOS, it prompts me for a tvOS login roughly every five minutes. When I attempt to log in with the prompt (remember, I am already logged in) it tells me I can’t log in. I attempted to resolve this and gave up after 20 minutes of searching and troubleshooting. I pulled the plug because it shouldn’t take nearly half an hour to try to log in to software you’re already logged into.
As @chiisana .net mentioned, The TV+ app is trying to be the hub for tv watching, which from a user perspective is confusing. tvOS is the hub, with the apps, and tvOS is still there. I think it’s safe to say that Apple would prefer all Apple TV+ users to use Apple hardware so Apple can have all the monies. With that in mind they probably designed the tv+ app to be its own hub (where within that app you can watch stuff from [insert streaming service]’s content without leaving the app) to try and poach TV+ subscribers on non Apple hardware. From the company’s perspective that makes sense. (Make people think all they need is Apple TV+, and hey, next streaming device we buy might as well be an Apple one.) That doesn’t make my user experience any better. For me at least, it makes it worse. I wanted the simplicity of tvOS as the only hub. (Editing to add that you do need to have the tv+ app installed if you’re a subscriber, which we were until recently.)
This is preference, and likely something I could have disabled had I gotten past the login issue, but I personally don’t like the bouncy, sticky, wiggly bits they added to tvOS and tv+ to accommodate the touchpad remote.
Huh? Use the remote app on your phone. It automatically pops up like a notification when there’s a text box on the screen. So easy. You can turn the box off by holding the power button for a few seconds. To close apps, you double tap the TV button and then it’s an iOS like interface that you scroll over and swipe up on the ones you want to close.
The UI is very minimal and the same across most all apps, so it’s easy to learn and use. It may be missing some power features, but most things are accessed via clicking of just holding.
Take a second and just let it sink in how fucking stupid that sentence is. Why do I need an application on my phone to use my device efficiently? Why doesn’t the remote have T9-like keys, or voice input? Hell, they invented the click-wheel, come on.
“your new garage door opener uses a pin. since the fob doesn’t have numbers, you just need to unlock your phone and type your pin in that way instead!” would be DOA with the first review. Why is apple getting a pass here?
(I’ve never used the atv, just seen it used by others, and text input wasn’t something they needed)
All remote based typing is awful, T9 included. I can’t speak for everyone, but I can type with swipe gestures on a virtual keyboard via remote faster than I can input T9 text. I’m unaware of any stock remote for a device with a full keyboard. I would argue Apple has text entry perfected at least as well as any other major manufacturer. You have virtual keyboard entry, solid voice-to-text, and it can be configured to push a notification to your iOS device when you enter a search bar which will auto-open to the remote app and pull up the keyboard. Because of this feature passwords can also be autofilled from Keychain to make logins easier.
You may personally prefer T9, but I’ve never seen anyone in the last decade input anything into a TV via T9. And you’re asking why it doesn’t have voice input, when it does. You admit to having never used an Apple TV yourself. I hate the idea of app-only interfaces features, but this isn’t a case like that. Maybe you should understand the features of a product before you call it “fucking stupid”.
I mean I’d rather have a mini qwerty keyboard included for this purposes, but companies won’t spend any money they don’t have to, so I figure T9 is a happy medium. For when you just need to type a few characters to get to what you want.
I stand behind the idea that I need an app in place of an input method “fucking stupid”, regardless though.
Guess what? An ATV natively supports keyboards and game controllers over Bluetooth. So for someone who doesn’t have an iPhone (the remote app is baked into iOS unfortunately) and reeeeeally hates tv remote typing and voice inputs, a mini keyboard is a viable option.
You really didn’t do any research before making so many hot takes.
That’s cool, really, and they should promote that feature.
But as I’ve stated elsewhere in this thread, no I didn’t, and said as much - just looking at the product images, as any typical potential customer would. But you’d know that if you read the comments, so…
Why doesn’t the remote have T9-like keys, or voice input?
It absolutely has voice input.
For passwords, copying and pasting my long, unique, complex passwords from my phone is way easier than any T9 input would ever be.
I have used numerous smart TVs native systems, Google TV boxes, and the NVIDIA Shield. I could not tolerate the UI paradigms or THE FUCKING ADVERTISEMENTS on literally every other system. It is repulsive.
Bonus points to the NVIDIA Shield for being alone it it’s ability to do Atmos from my own media files, though…
It’s almost like I said I’ve never used one, how mind-blowing. Your deduction skills are truly unmatched.
I went looking at the product page and saw no button for voice in any of their images. I guess you have to hold something for a few seconds, but as a new user, I’d never know it was there.
Also, plex and a few others offer the options to type, scan a qr code, or visit a url and sign in to validate the user. I guess if you’re stuck with typing as your only option, fine, use the app. Still not what I’d call a good user experience.
99% of apps on Apple TV have the same kind of login option. If they don’t, it’s on the app developer to implement.
The exception to this that I run into regularly is connecting to a local media server, say through Infuse (seems to handle some codecs better than Plex, and has few if any audio sync issues, though I recommend pointing Infuse at a Jellyfin instance so your library’s metadata doesn’t get cleared and need to be re-indexed on the Apple TV somewhat regularly).
Maybe you ought to take the stance of not talking about something you’re unfamiliar with. Every thing you’ve pointed at has been wrong.
Yeah but again that is on the app creator not the Apple TV.
Apple implementing a really nice keyboard using your phone to work around the app developer being lazy should be considered a bonus not a “well why didn’t they do this other thing” which is what I’m saying.
I don’t see how an app developer could really work around this, if I’m inputting a server address and password for an SMB share. For everything else, sure. I agree that the Remote app’s copy/paste functionality for these elements is literally the best possible solution.
I’m kinda drunk given its New Year’s Eve but I am 99% sure I could find and implement a QR code based authentication method in short order if I tried.
Plex does it, everyone else does it, in this day and age there’s no reason why you can’t generate a token and then a uri and then a QR code if you are able to handle the rest of it.
Again, how is it on Apple or any vendor for that matter, to be on the hook for them?
if they really wanted they could use Apple based oauth
For arbitrary text input id ask you to point at any other remote / UI that handles this limitation better.
This all makes sense to me if there is a server side component to the app. But with Infuse, there isn’t, and I can’t figure out where the QR code is taking me to “authenticate” on my own, locally hosted SMB server? Not a biggie - typically only need to do this once per server, and the Remote app works fine for me.
For arbitrary text input id ask you to point at any other remote / UI that handles this limitation better.
I think you think you’re talking to someone else? I agree with you.
To the contrary, I own two older Macs and like some of their software/services enough to pay for it as a subscription; I’m not the one making bold assumptions here, at least not without saying I’m not fully aware. You, on the other hand…
Thank you for the comment. I should’ve provided more context in the original post. Without getting too deep, I’m starting to reconsider my personal views on privacy, content ownership (vs. streaming), where / how I spend my money, etc.
I’m in the Apple ecosystem but wondering if going back to open source, purchased media (music, movies, etc.), donating to projects, etc. is “better”. Which is highly subjective and personal, of course.
The reason for the question was to see what other folks may be doing.
If privacy is the concern, you should really read the breakdown from Mozilla someone shared. Can’t miss it, large wall of text in this thread. Apple ecosystem is much better than others in the privacy department. The other players are much worse when it comes to personal data collection and selling.
Yup, I did go down the rabbit hole and read the links and stuff. Interesting reading and something to consider. I guess it’s back to a non-networked DVD/Blu-Ray player and get stuff from the local library or Craigslist :)
Also aim for non-networked TVs or they might be doing ACR and phoning home, even if you’re watching your own physical content. A former coworker on ad selling side mentioned before ACR on smart TVs, companies like Nielsen and alike would track content using digital fingerprints hidden in the overscan part of your TV. So there’s all sorts of creepy tracking tech all over.
Yeah, a sad side effect of the subscription/advertising economy. Current TV has as much of that turned off, that I can find at least. Although I haven’t gone full “remove everything from the network”, yet 🙂
I have had various sticks and Roku highest end models and then got the latest ATV with hard wire port that adds Dolby vision and high frame rate HDR. I have a 2022 high-end TV.
The video quality is noticeably better. Not sure of older ATV, but this is clearly better than the top end Roku. Also, I’m not sure if it is the same on older tvs
The other thing is that you want to hard wire if at all possible. Even the best wifi can’t touch the reliability of a wire
Isnt’t port 81 where usually the nginx proxy manager webui is served? I think you should just forward the requests directly to port 80 and 443 respectively.
Roku, Playstation, Xbox, streaming device from ISP (like the device from comcast), Fire stick, and I’m sure there are many more. They all do what you’re looking for.
Xbox sucks as a streaming box, especially with Plex. If you try to choose something from the watchlist, it can’t send a url to the related streaming app.
I use flauncher. It’s ugly and doesn’t have a lot of features but I don’t care. I only have two apps installed, so I’m rarely looking at or using the launcher anyway.
I ran an Apple TV in the living room for a long time to access my Plex server and whatever subscription my wife has this month. As time went on it got more and more glitchy until it came to the point where I had to power cycle the thing every few days. Replaced it with a cheap fire stick, annoyed the crap out of me. Replaced that with a cheap Roku, it was only slightly better than the shitty firestick.
My wife got me the NVIDIA shield pro for Christmas this year, and I picked up the p2920 controller for it. My god this thing is awesome - not only is it the best tv box I’ve ever used, I can use moonlight to play games on my rig or GeForce now to stream games. I highly recommend this thing
So, you’re going to run into some difficulties because a lot of what you’re dealing with is, I think, specific to casaOS, which makes it harder to know what’s actually happening.
The way you’ve phrased the question makes it seem like you’re following a more conventional path.
It sounds like maybe you’ve configured your public traffic to route to the nginx proxy manager interface instead of to nginx itself.
Instead of having your router send traffic on 80/443 to 81, try having it send the traffic to 80/443, which should be being listened to by nginx.
Systems that promise to manage everything for you are great for getting started fast, but they have the unfortunate side effect of making it so you don’t actually know what it’s doing, or what you have running to manage everything. It can make asking for help a lot harder.
I have tried Roku, Fire TV, Chromecast (not the new models with an interface), and AppleTV. So far Apple TV is the cleanest without ads or sponsored content on the home screen.
When I switched my family from predatory directv, this was obviously a question I had, and I ended up going with chromecasts (gen 2 and 3/ultra). Once I showed them how to use their phone as the controller, it immediately clicked, which was fantastic. I thought about an atv or an android box, but that would involve multiple profiles and remembering to switch when someone else wanted to use it (android TV boxes have this buried in the system settings; and I’m the only one with an apple account). Ads were a showstopper for me too, so the pictures/art on the cc when idle was great.
Understood about the ads / sponsored content. I’ve not used anything but an ATV, but I’ve heard similar (ads, interface, etc.). If I come up with a different solution, I will revive the post and let folks know. Thanks.
I’ve never used an Apple TV, but my smart TV is a Roku and it does most of the things you’ve described. I use Crunchyroll and Tubi and a few other streaming apps including Apple’s. I use Prime Music and it has like 99% of the albums I want to listen to. Obviously it doesn’t have Apple Arcade, but I mostly just play games on my phone anyway. I even put a Roku box on an old CRT TV that I use sometimes for watching older shows in SD format lol! I don’t know if this is the type of answer you were looking for but I hope it’s helpful.
As does my fire stick, and even my Vizio smart TV … all except the Apple Arcade
I’ve bent thinking about moving in the other direction. I try to avoid privacy abuse of the SmartTV and Fire Stick is being enshittified, so what should I use? AppleTV seems interesting to try plus games may be fun
That’s why people keep asking you for your nginx config since when you just say nginx, people are expecting that you are using just nginx, and configuring it through text files.
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