ghacks.net

Norgur, to privacyguides in Brave appears to install VPN Services without user consent

Okay, this article makes it sound like they found some hidden thing deep in obscure windows settings about brave doing something bad.

On truth, they just installed Windows Services for their VPN to enable users to use the service. That's what many apps do for dozens of reasons.

I dislike Brave as much as the next guy, but let's stick to things they really fuck up and not make Up issues that aren't there.

krellor,

I agree it is people looking for reasons to criticize. However, I do think VPN or anything that modifies your route tables should be subjected to more scrutiny than other app features due to potential for abuse. I wish browsers wouldn't bundle them at all, or install them as part of their base.

MonkCanatella,

Especially considering they were injecting affiliate links/replacing affiliate links with their own, everything they do should be seen through that lens. They literally thought it was either OK to do which means that behavior like this is going to happen and keep happening with them, OR they thought they could get away with it which ends up with the same result.

Oha, to piracy in qBittorrent 4.6 launches with I2P support - gHacks Tech News

can someone eli5 i2p to me?

RyeMan, (edited )

Others have summarized it well but I’ll add my perspective also.

I2P is a decentralized network of peers. All traffic gets routed through multiple peers before reaching its destination. Traffic is also encrypted by multiple layers of encryption and each connected peer can only decrypt one layer, that layer will only contain further routing info so that peer knows the next place to hand off your data. The encryption gets stripped layer by layer until it finally reaches its destination.

What this ultimately means is that by interacting with a website or service through I2P it is virtually impossible to identify any information the user is sending or receiving and it is also impossible to tell where the connections are going or coming from.

To make things even more interesting all I2P routers by default also contribute resources back into the network so while your I2P Router is handling your communication connections, it’s also volunteering to be a connection node in someone else’s connection. This adds further security because now you’ve got many Peer to Peer connections going in and out of your network, all encrypted so any prying eyes will have an exceedingly difficult time trying to make sense of any of your internet traffic.

Tor relies on the good faith of its community to contribute resources to the network and it’s not very well incentivised causing its resources to be far more limited and bogged down. For this reason, Tor cannot sustain heavy torrent traffic without easily being overwhelmed. In I2P, every user is a contributor so the more people who use I2P, the faster and better it becomes.

The big advantage Tor has over I2P are outproxies and the beautifully prepacked Tor Browser. Tor has a lot more influence and money backing it so there are some large and well protected entities that can afford all the legal trouble that outproxies can bring. Unfortunately there just isn’t enough money or legal support in the I2P community to reliably support outproxies even though I2P already has full support for it.

I2P is a fantastic tool for private communication across the Internet and the true ELI5 here is I2P natively supports “anonymous” torrenting (even encouraged it as it strengthens the network further) and will do so privately and securely without any need for a VPN. Adding support to QBittorrent makes it even easier to access I2P torrenting with very minimal set up required.

The only catch here is you can’t go around downloading any old torrent from the Internet on I2P, someone needs to actually be seeding that torrent on the I2P network for you to get any data. There are fully functioning tracker sites exclusively within I2P that have a huge catalog of content but all is not lost for “clearnet” torrents either. Software like BiglyBT and now QBittorrent, allows users to “bridge” or “cross seed” torrents across the two networks, that way content is shared no matter what network you’re a part of.

BiglyBT has been doing this for a while now but I’m so happy to see QBittorrent finally embracing this as well.

EDIT: geti2p.net/en/

Oha,

So its basically the cooler Tor? Thanks for explaining

WarmApplePieShrek,

Cooler and less cool because no exit nodes. It’s fully separate from normal internet.

ninchuka,

There are exit nodes, called out proxies but routers have to set them up themselves

Strict3443,

The most known outproxy: stormycloud.org/i2p-outproxy/

eya,
@eya@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Most private trackers ban BiglyBT, hope the same doesn’t happen to QBittorrent

KinNectar,
@KinNectar@kbin.run avatar

@eya

Why do they ban it?

shadearg,
@shadearg@lemmy.world avatar

Why do they ban it?

Issue

nix,
@nix@merv.news avatar

That links to a link to a forum with a ton of replies? Can you just copy paste the reason?

flamingarms,

Took a quick look at the first few messages and the links: seems like BiglyBT is banned by a lot of private trackers because it’s possible to mod it to spoof the numbers required to stay a member in the private tracker, while also being able to create a torrent file that allows others using the mod to utilize the private tracker without permission. Not sure if any of that functionality has to do with I2P.

ninchuka,

Would that not be possible in every other client? Or is it just the easiest to do with BiglyBT?

WarmApplePieShrek,

You can mod any open source client to cheat but most of them don’t give you buttons to do it.

Fjor,

Thanks for such a detailed answer! How does the I2P speeds compare to running torrents over VPN? I assume its a lot slower?

WarmApplePieShrek,

I2P is separate from normal internet. It’s not an alternative to VPN.

Fjor,

Yeah thats fine, I was just wondering how the speed varied from one solution to the other.

Strict3443,

From my experience, some popular I2P torrents have gotten up to 1 MB/s download, but I usually average around 200 KB/s. While it is not blazing fast, it does provide a good deal of anonymity for everyone involved with the torrent.

Also, you can lower the anonymity and increase speeds by reducing the number of hops from 3 to 2 or 1. You can choose how “anonymous” you’d like to be while torrenting, at the cost of speed.

RyeMan,

It varies wildly between torrents based on activity of the torrent and your I2P tunnel settings. Participation on I2P torrents is definitely significantly lower than normal clearnet torrents (at the moment) so a lot of times there are only 1-2 peers available which often results in roughly 35-60 KB/s but I’ve also seen some more popular torrents download at nearly 1 MB/s. I2P can self update from a torrent, that file generally has high participation, and on average, downloads at speeds above 150 KB/s. There definitely is some bandwidth lost just due to overhead of running the network, fewer hops and more tunnels helps with that though. I usually run about 10 tunnels with Snark, all with 3 hops. If I reduce that to two hops I can still have good privacy but with significantly less bandwidth overhead, I just personally feel the extra privacy of three hops is worth the sacrifice.

Speed and bandwidth rely heavily on the level of participation, more high-bandwidth peers torrenting over I2P will significantly speed things up. With my current setup, my router pushes around 450 KB/s on average just for participating traffic (traffic that is only contributing to other I2P peers) so it’s definitely capable of comparable speeds to that of a VPN.

Oh and I should have mentioned this before, torrenting over I2P also helps strengthen your connection to the I2P network because it introduces you to more high-speed peers to communicate with. Really speeds things up if you’re trying to bootstrap a new I2P router

I2P has quite a few internal torrents with large swarm sizes that you can stress test pretty reasonably with. Another fun thing you can try if you are using I2P Snark (java I2P built-in torrent handler), you can paste magnet links from the clearnet into your client and if you’re lucky some beautiful people out there are cross seeding that torrent and it’ll allow you to take part in downloading clearnet torrents over I2P.

PeachMan,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

So, if I set up an I2P router on my network and use Qbittorrent, would it theoretically be possible to contribute to I2P using the torrents that I already seed? Or is it not that easy?

WarmApplePieShrek,

I2P router means the I2P software on your computer. You don’t have to buy a new router.

Strict3443,

You can cross-seed torrents by adding I2P trackers to the tracker list. What helps is when you upload the .torrent file to tracker2.postman.i2p (the only? i2p public torrent tracker) so that others can find the magnet/torrent link and start downloading. That way people can find the InfoHash and also have trackers embedded in the i2p .torrent file to allow you to find seeders.

Some info on this subject: old.reddit.com/…/how_to_correctly_cross_seed_to_m…

ninchuka,

Theres a few public trackers, check http://notbob.i2p and click the magnet

Strict3443,

What I mean is if I create a new torrent of Big Buck Bunny with a InfoHash of b1946ac92492d2347c6235b4d2611184 for example, no one will find my torrent by searching for “Big Buck Bunny”. Unless I post this hash somewhere, advertising “Hey, this torrent is Big Buck Bunny” like what 1337x and other torrent sites do, you won’t “find” it. Basically, we have to use a torrent indexer like tracker2.postman.i2p to search the metadata and find torrents we want. If that makes sense.

ninchuka,

I’ve seeded clearnet torrents to I2P peers many times with BiglyBT without those torrents having I2P trackers, so it’s definitely possible

Strict3443,

It would be nice to have qBittorrent auto add I2P trackers to all torrents to help cross-seed them.

ninchuka,

That would be nice yeah, maybe have a list of trackers in the options the user can control to add to torrents automatically

RyeMan,

I2P has its own DHT so all you need is an InfoHash to start downloading assuming there’s at least one reachable seeder. MuWire is an application that lets you search the DHT. The developer recently abandoned the project though… I haven’t tried it in some time but it probably still works.

Strict3443,

I’ll check out MuWire, was unaware that it used DHT.

Also, I am just saying that tracker2.postman.i2p is the only torrent directory we have currently, and its best way to find and advertise torrents for others. Trackers (where your client announces to) are helpful to finding peers of the same torrent.

Fjor,

You my man, have a brain the sized of a planet! Thanks for all the explanations! ✨

helios,
@helios@social.ggbox.fr avatar

Very cool, thanks for sharing.

lemmyingly,

To summarise, I2P is similar to Tor, except that every client also serves as a node, and there are no exit nodes, so you can only access data shared by other I2P clients

Is my summary correct?

ninchuka,

You can have exit nodes, called out proxies on I2P they just have to be manually setup

obinice,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

So it’s like Kazaa, kinda? Are we basically going back to the decentralised P2P days? :-D

Agent641,

How are nodes chosen by the client?

What stops governments/LEO/copyright dragons from spinning up thousands of the fastest/most accessable i2p nodes so that clients connect to them first, then these hosts log the traffic paths to identify origin/destination?

Strict3443,

geti2p.net/en/docs/how/threat-model#sybil

Good write-up from the I2P team on this topic. Page includes other attack vectors as well.

ComplexLotus,

All traffic gets routed through multiple peers before reaching its destination

  • I wonder why the whole internet is not designed like this.
  • if we designed basic protocols like TCP and UDP with user privacy (in practice hiding his IP-Adress) as the most important point we would have a more secure internet I currently think… or am I wrong here?
OsrsNeedsF2P,

It’s a dark network. Instead of going to a website, you go to an “eepsite”, and to get there you securely route through a bunch of random computers (as if you went through 10+ VPNs). It’s similar to Tor, but the main difference Tor’s primary goal is to visit websites (on Tor, “onion sites” exist, but unlike I2P, “onion sites” are not the primary focus of Tor).

dmonzel,

From the article that was posted:

The main new feature is support for I2P, the Invisble Internet Project. It uses a fully encrypted privacy network layer to hide user activity and locations. The network does not use servers. Peers contributed “a portion of their resources” to other network particpants.

The maintainers promise that “non one can see where traffic is coming from, where it is going, or what the contents are” when the Invisible Internet Project is active.

gd42,

If it doesn’t use servers, where is the content stored? Or stuff just disappears when a user whose computer used to serve the files is turned off?

WarmApplePieShrek,

It’s BitTorrent. There are seeders.

I2P has servers to run websites, but they mean I2P itself has no central servers that control it, like Tor does.

deweydecibel,

What about private trackers that monitor your ratio? Can they still see that?

WarmApplePieShrek,

Private trackers see your ratio because your client tells it to them. If you cheat, you get banned. They can tell you cheat because the seeder reports upload but you don’t report download. You must not use private tracker torrents except on their tracker because it looks like cheating because the other client isn’t connected to their tracker, and you will get banned.

ohitsbreadley,

Maybe I’m a smooth brain - but I always thought private trackers were kept private/exclusive as a way of promoting seeding - the exclusivity of private trackers lowers risk/fear of seeding, so people seed, files are kept alive. - the ratios are a stick to enforce the rules and boot leechers. Centralizing seed logs with private trackers always gave me the creeps though.

Honestly, it sounds like there’s essentially no risk of seeding on I2P. Wouldn’t more people be willing to seed in general? And wouldn’t that in turn obviate the need for private trackers?

Alas, perhaps my smooth brain brings naivety along with it.

WarmApplePieShrek,

Private trackers promote seeding, but people don’t seed for more reasons than getting caught. Public trackers are leechfests. Some of my public torrents, I have ratio 30 and I’m still the only seeder. Why should I bother with this, if nobody else will? I should put the torrent on a private tracker where other people will help spread it, and stop public seeding.

Strict3443,

This is a good point. I also feel like private trackers are meant for people who actually seed content they download, and just have good intentions to help share content. This also comes with hardware requirements (disk space) sometimes that not everyone has.

MangoPenguin, to privacyguides in Proton Mail says that the new Outlook app for Windows is Microsoft's new data collection service
@MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It also sends your IMAP credentials to their servers and receives the mail there, it’s not done locally like the older versions.

wreckedcarzz,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Fuuuuuck that~

LWD, (edited )

deleted_by_author

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  • hemko,

    The twisted reasoning is probably so that the users can access the emails anywhere with their live account (and so that MS can scrape those mails for all sorts of creepy shit)

    MangoPenguin,
    @MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Just to do it, IMAP already covers using multiple devices on an email account.

    garrett,
    @garrett@infosec.pub avatar

    This is the worst part to me. All this just to “cloud sync” or something silly.

    petrescatraian,

    @MangoPenguin yet their free tier for their cloud services is still lacking...

    @Blaze

    glad_cat, to privacyguides in Brave appears to install VPN Services without user consent

    The same company that was modifying the content of the pages as an opt-out feature deeply hidden in the setting? (e.g. bitcoin stuff on every Reddit link)

    whofearsthenight,

    Surely you trust them with all of your traffic, though? They sound like good stewards and of course you’d want their VPN installed without your consent and you can definitely trust it’s not doing anything bad, right?

    arisunz, (edited ) to piracy in qBittorrent 4.6 launches with I2P support - gHacks Tech News
    @arisunz@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Some documentation would be nice.

    I’ve been trying to connect qbittorrent to my local i2pd node for the last 30 minutes and for the life of me I cannot get it to work, even though other services work via SAM in the same port. Everything just times out.

    Edit: for anyone else struggling, you need to add your own trackers: old.reddit.com/…/tutorial_how_to_use_i2p_in_qbitt…

    qbittorrent doesn’t seem to be able to fetch those on its own yet

    Strict3443,

    It is experimental indeed. While it “works”, it is no where near the reliability and efficiency of other I2P torrent clients like I2Psnark or BiglyBT, both of which are Java based.

    original_reader, (edited ) to privacyguides in Proton Mail says that the new Outlook app for Windows is Microsoft's new data collection service

    Kinda OT, but writing about privacy and then presenting an abysmal way to opt out of 160+ trackers is pure, hypocritical, rich irony.

    Yes, I’m talking to you, ghacks.net.

    perviouslyiner,

    Especially when it’s not even the original article

    proton.me/…/outlook-is-microsofts-new-data-collec…

    Kissaki, (edited ) to privacy in Google is the master of fake Privacy features - gHacks Tech News

    Consent popup without symmetric disagree violating GDPR.

    View our 164 partners

    Ironic given the article topic.

    I won’t be reading this article because of the gate.

    BearOfaTime,

    Archive.is is your friend, and doesn’t give the offending website any clicks.

    archive.is/VRzQN

    Substance_P,

    Thanks for the link, the part about disabling Ad privacy in Android is also helpful, I had no idea about this and all of it was turned on after the last os update.

    IronKrill, to privacyguides in Brave appears to install VPN Services without user consent

    Open article -> get prompted for notifications and full-screen cookie consent pop up -> deny notifications -> click through cookie menu, accept -> finally see article for .5 nano seconds -> trending articles popup -> click the x on trending -> tab crashes.

    I think I know why people only read the headline nowadays.

    AdventuringAardvark,

    If you use uBO on medium mode, you don’t see any notifications, consent banners or pop-ups.

    Asudox, to privacy in Google lists improvements that only users from the EU will get - gHacks Tech News
    @Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

    long live eu

    Teon, to privacyguides in Brave appears to install VPN Services without user consent
    @Teon@kbin.social avatar

    You get what you deserve if you use Brave. It will only get worse.

    LogicalDrivel, to privacy in AdGuard Temp Mail: new temporary email service launched - gHacks Tech News
    @LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyz avatar

    I’m a big fan of Firefox’s email mask feature. Not sure which update it was but recently it showed up when clicking on an email field. FF creates an email address for you and forwards any mail you get to your main email. It’s been great for signing up for random crap cus you can just delete the email mask “account” afterwards.

    beetus,

    Fastmail also offers this.

    Curious to know how many others do as well.

    Libb, to privacy in Google is the master of fake Privacy features - gHacks Tech News
    @Libb@jlai.lu avatar

    Thx for sharing.

    This article makes for a real nice and clear summary I will share with people around me that don’t get it or can’t be bothered with too much details.

    Let’s hope it will be enough to encourage them to reconsider their choice of browsers and online services.

    mintycactus,
    @mintycactus@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Libb,
    @Libb@jlai.lu avatar

    Lol what will you say them? Your IP won’t be shared to other websites, but only to Google, switch your browser now! That will be so dumb…

    I won’t tell them much. I will suggest they read it and let them know I will gladly answer any question they may have after reading it.

    They’re just ignorant of the technical considerations but they still have a fully working brain, and given some lead they should easily understand the topic at hand (a bit like, say, if I discussed the differences in the process of painting watercolor versus oil or gouache while you have yourself never painted a canvas in your live I would not consider you too dumb to understand, or laugh at you, I would instead take some time to explain you what are those essential differences and why they matter. Well, this article will do exactly that in regard to Google, for those persons).

    As I wrote in my first comment, this article is a nice and clear summary of the issue (Google privacy-washing) and should help them understand or, if you prefer, realize that this issue may be worth getting more into it. Then, could begin our discussion.

    Don’t you agree that understanding there is an issue is a required starting point for anyone to take any decision in order to try to correct said issue?

    As for the rest of your well thought-out comment, here is my take: I hope they will change, and not just their browser, but I certainly will not tell them to change or to do anything they don’t want.
    I know we live in this strange new world, where hostility and mockery is becoming the norm, but barking orders or Loling at the face of people is not what a discussion is supposed to be. Maybe that is something that’s worth repeating, no matter how dumb it sounds.

    mintycactus,
    @mintycactus@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Libb,
    @Libb@jlai.lu avatar

    Agreed, on all points.

    For me, the main issue will be to get people who have not considered the big picture to realize that even if it helps reduce a real issue, and it does, the solution may be worse or much more costly than the issue. Even more so in the long run.

    shortkid113,

    Think the best response when I've told someone that their data is getting harvest was "Why wouldn't I want that?". That puts the statement of "I have nothing to hide" to shame

    Libb,
    @Libb@jlai.lu avatar

    Yep… There is a lot of teaching/educating to be done.

    groet,

    That is a real problem. In a perfect world you would want all of your data to be available to everyone who can use it to improve your live. And only getting advertisement for things you actually want/need (not only think you want/need) is a real improvement of your live.

    Sadly “improving lives of consumers” is not the goal of any of the big data collectors and as such any data collected is or will be missused to cause harm to the owner even if it is not directly obvious.

    themurphy, to piracy in qBittorrent 4.6 launches with I2P support - gHacks Tech News

    Anyone has a small and quick guide to how to set this up on let’s say a Rasp Pi?

    Strict3443,

    Guide for Linux: …codeberg.page/…/how-to-use-i2p-on-qbittorrent-no…

    You can install i2pd with sudo apt install i2pd and then point your services towards your i2p router (Ex. 127.0.0.1) and you are good to go.

    themurphy,

    Thanks! And just so I understand this correctly, do I need a separate router for this + my normal router?

    Strict3443,

    You can use one i2pd router for many clients/services, as long as your device can handle it.

    chemicalwonka, to privacyguides in Proton Mail says that the new Outlook app for Windows is Microsoft's new data collection service
    @chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    always been

    Scary_le_Poo, to privacyguides in Brave appears to install VPN Services without user consent
    @Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org avatar

    Thank fuck for Firefox reading mode

    full article because this site sucks fucking cock

    www.ghacks.net Brave appears to install VPN Services without user consent - gHacks Tech News Martin Brinkmann 3 - 4 minutes

    If you have the Brave Browser installed on your Windows devices, then you may also have Brave VPN services installed on the machine. Brave installs these services without user consent on Windows devices.

    Brave Firewall + VPN is an extra service that Brave users may subscribe to for a monthly fee. Launched in mid-2022, it is a cooperation between Brave Software, maker of Brave Browser, and Guardian, the company that operates the VPN and the firewall solution. The firewall and VPN solution is available for $9.99 per month.

    Brave Software is not the only browser maker that has integrated a VPN solution in its browser. Mozilla, maker of Firefox, entered into a cooperation with Mullvad and launched Mozilla VPN in 2020. Brave Browser’s installation of VPN services on Windows

    Brave Browser Windows VPN Service

    A post on Privacy Guides suggests that Brave Browser installs its VPN Service without user consent and regardless of whether the VPN is used or has been used in the past.

    You can verify this easily by following these steps:

    
    <span style="color:#323232;">Use Windows-R to open the Run box.
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">Type services.msc to open the Services manager on Windows.
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">Scroll down until you come to the Brave section there.
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">Check for Brave VPN Service and Brave VPN Wireguard Service.
    </span>
    

    If they exist, Brave has installed the services on your device. If you were never subscribed to Brave Firewall + VPN, the company may have done so without your consent.

    The two services have no description, the startup type Manual and Manual Trigger Start.

    There is no explanation why these services got installed on the system. Cautious users may set the two Services to disabled:

    
    <span style="color:#323232;">Right-click on one of the services and select Properties.
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">Switch the Startup type from Manual to Disabled.
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">Repeat the process for the second VPN service.
    </span>
    

    Deleting the Windows services is another option. The main issue here is that there is no guarantee that a browser update won’t install the Services again. You’d need to monitor the services whenever Brave Browser updates to make sure of that.

    Some users who replied to the discussion on Privacy Guides said that they did not have these services installed.

    Closing Words

    Why are the VPN services installed in first place? Brave made no announcement in this regard. Maybe so that users can start using the VPN immediately on Windows and not after a restart.

    In any event, you now have the tools at hand to check for the services and either disable or delete them.

    Now You: do you use Brave Browser?

    Summary

    Brave is installing VPN Services without user consent

    Article Name

    Brave is installing VPN Services without user consent

    Description

    Brave Software appears to be installing VPN services on Windows devices without user consent during Brave Browser updates.

    Author

    Martin Brinkmann

    Publisher

    Ghacks Technology News

    Logo Ghacks Technology News

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