I mean it’s stupid, but that’s what the supporters think.
The thing they are missing is that no one commits a crime thinking they will get caught. So ever increasing the deterrence doesn’t help.
Drugs is a public health issue, no really criminal. Prohibition doesn’t work with things done at scales like drugs and alcohol. You’re just feeding the criminal gangs.
It’s not deterrence, that’s not the point. Deterrence does not work.
It’s about sending people to prison so they can do cheap labor. It’s also about racism because it’s disproportionately targeted towards minorities. It absolutely makes sense in that light.
It’s the prison-industrial complex paying the politicians to push this stuff through. Voters don’t matter to the politics being pushed, they just get told later that they wanted them.
Reminds me of that crazy scene from Picard where they get holographic popup ads on their ship.
It might just be my crazy conspiracy theory brain, but I feel like they’re trying to normalize advertising in a supposedly idyllic and utopian future society to make us see them as more of a necessity than they actually are. Same thing with Raffi living in poverty and Picard having private ownership of the means of production (his vineyard) with employees. So much for that “money-free socialist utopia.”
I never even thought about Picard’s vineyard like that. It is odd that a society that seems largely modeled off of libertarian values would include generational estates. The concept of usufruct may have been unknown by the writers of TNG when they were fleshing our Picard’s past. Or it was just a bit of our cultural bias bleeding into this “utopian” setting.
Raffis story doesn’t get a pass though. It seems like they were going for gritty and edgy in a way that was straight up contradictory to the federations ethos when they came up with that bs. The whole first season of Picard was pretty backwards in its portrayal of the federation imo. Haven’t watched the 2nd or 3rd season yet so idk if they unfucked any of the worst stuff
I mostly agree with you except the libertarian part. Is that a misspeech or something? The Federation is pretty far from being (economically) Libertarian.
Libertarian in the OG sense, more commonly called libertarian socialism or anarchism. Didn’t realize I left the socialism bit out. I hesitate to call the federation anarchist because there’s still plenty of hierarchy but it seems to be modeled after a vaguely left-libertarian ideology of some sort
The original Liberals were actually a bunch of mill owners in 19th Century Manchester (at the time the most technologically advanced city in the world) who got together to ask challenging questions like “why should we have to pay taxes?” and “what if we basically owned our employees? And their children”.
Marx and Engels lived there for a time and witnessed the conditions the working people lived in first-hand.
Libertarianism is explicitly based on the ideas of Manchester School Liberalism. The British Liberal Party of the 19th Century was all about free market ideology, in contrast to the (theoretically) more centrist modern party. In Victorian Britain, Liberal own you.
Broader socialism has its roots in the French revolution and liberalism too. But you don’t see anyone making a case that Marxists are liberals due to their common ideological heritage. Because it’s silly. It’s almost like divergent ideologies have to originate from somewhere and within a particular historical context. It’s unproductive and pointless to say “z came from y and y from x so z is the same as x”
I don’t want a pat on the head. I want to overthrow capitalism in its current form and revolutionize our society for the benefit of all and not only a few.
There’s a famous Churchill quote about democracy that is almost always misquoted:
‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’
To me, the key words that are often left out entirely are: that have been tried.
For the Aztecs in this picture, it may actually be true that their system was the best one they’d tried so far. Maybe ritual sacrifice of a tiny minority was a small price to pay compared to what they’d experienced until then. Representative democracy with voting rights for all citizens over the age of majority might be the best system we’ve tried so far. Kings willing to devolve some power to their barons in the Magna Carta was the best system for England so far.
We shouldn’t stop trying to make things better. Otherwise we’re like these Aztecs.
I’m pretty anti-capitalist. Not 100%, but man shit is fucked right now and it’s gotta be reigned in.
A mixed economic system where the necessities of life are not run for profit (maybe even free?) combined with profit-driven progress for the luxuries would be best. With strong unions for all workers of course.
Oh, and fix the democracy too. No more FPTP bullshit.
That science lady’s just pretending. She’s sitting there making breakfast. I can see the glass of orange juice in front of her, and pancake batter in the red bowl. Science is a liar sometimes!
She’s not pretending she’s just creating biased propaganda funded by Bill Gates and George Soros so the government can implant us with 5G mind-control microchips to make us autistic zombies.
Probably a picture of a quality control lab in a food factory. They’re pretty anal about everything being within spec for safety, product consistency and legal reasons.
My office, for one. But you prolly mean by government. Crossing the border in Canada led to the trucker thing. To be clear, I got my third booster last month. I’m pro-vax.
Whenever someone just straight up lies about vaccines and the responses to vaccines, they always need to bring up how they’re all vaccinated and pro-vaccine.
Nothing I said was a lie. I named two examples of vax mandates. My 24 person company in the Bay Area, where we’re dominated by liberalism (whereas I’m a leftist). And the trucker convoys as a result of a mandate to cross the border. The first, you have no way to verify or disprove (although we were so disorganized that actual proof was never sought; it was a stated policy before we came back to the office in summer of 2021. The second, you’d have to have been in a news blackout to miss. I don’t understand your comment.
Work requirements are not mandates. People at the industrial half of the place where I work (I’m in the office) have to wear safety goggles. They aren’t mandated to wear safety goggles. The government isn’t forcing them to wear safety goggles. They just have to do that as a work requirement. No one forced you to get vaccinated just like no one is forcing them to wear goggles. That doesn’t mean choices don’t have consequences.
I qualified my statement as “not gov” and then followed up with a gov example. You’re arguing in bad faith. Anyway, I’m done with this thread. Hope you have a nice day.
Airplanes, trains, boats, gov employees, public service workers, private corp employees (based on gov advice - mostly office workers and sports players), all forms of healthcare workers, schools, immigrants, and military to name a few.
Wasn’t mandated enough places obviously. Your dipshit view of what freedom is gives you zero right to potentially kill people with your fucked up negligence and I’m really fucking tired of morons arguing this dumbfuckery
Who “repealed” anything? Laws are repealed. This was never law. Some organizations stopped requiring it because most people aren’t this type of moron and just got the fucking vaccine, and people like you made it too difficult to continue to be required. So yeah, you sort of got your moronic wish. People of course died for it but that’s their problem right?
The mRNA vaccines were different than this though (not using a live virus), but mRNA is a newer method that hasn’t had the same level of testing as other vaccines. Probably good to take some precautions, especially when the virus in question (covid) has a 99% survival rate
If the government mandates something, it has the same weight as a law.
No it doesn’t. I don’t think this happened at all except with govt as an employer. You morons could just get a new job.
it’s hard to say
It’s actually very easy to say. The vaccine complication rate is near zero and not a single harebrained theory you idiots had has panned out. Try again
Lol, you need time to know long term effects, there still hasn’t been enough of that yet.
And yes, a mandate has as much weight as a law, it just depends who issued it. The only really difference in mandate vs law is how it’s initiated, but here, they hold the same weight.
You ignore that not a single person was mandated to get a vaccine in a scenario where they had no choice.
Also you idiot, we know the long term effects of death but that didn’t stop you from pretending a hypothetical issue born of a bullshit theory should take precedence.
The choice was lose your income, travel no where, and gather with zero loved ones - or take this vaccine we just came out with, but havent finished testing lol.
It’s kind of funny that I’ve been pretty civil despite all the name calling, and you’re the one blocking me.
Assuming you’re in the US, no one was banning you from traveling or gathering with loved ones. There was nothing close to an actual lockdown that was implemented in the US. Losing income is a different story. Coming in to work and endangering other people’s health without their consent is not acceptable. Not to mention that most antivaxxers are antimaskers as well, which made it worse. If you purposely do not take the necessary precautions to keep other people around you safe, then you shouldn’t be working there. That applies to anything, not just Covid.
I’m not in the US - but also thank you for responding without malice.
Losing income is a big deal, especially with dependants, but that aside - you’re right about your point of possibly endangering others.
However If the vaccine fully protected you (as it was advertised at first) this wouldn’t be the case - anyone who was vaxxed would’ve been immune. Also having natural immunity is just as good, if not better - but instead of doing any sort of antibody testing, we stuck with “be vaccinated or lose your job”. Wouldn’t anti body testing instead of mandates be the pinnacle of making sure those around you are safe? Especially at a time when we didn’t know the risks or effectiveness of the vaccine.
No company or government agency claimed the vaccine fully protected anyone, the efficacy results were published long before the vaccines were made available to the public. Natural immunity isn’t better at all, it’s as good in some cases, but less consistently so across the board and hybrid immunity was better than either. No, antibody testing would be unnecessary overkill vs just vaccinating everyone for this reason.
So death is the only metric? Long COVID isn’t a metric? Just missing two weeks of work isn’t a metric? Because we don’t get flu vaccines because we’re worried about dying from the flu, we get them because we want to avoid getting the flu and avoid the worst symptoms if we do. And that’s even true of other vaccines. The polio vaccine wasn’t about stopping death, it was about stopping the crippling effects of polio. Sort of similar to the crippling effects of COVID.
The worst symptoms are death. I see your point about extending the metrics, and maybe I should consider more than just dying, but I think it’s a strong factor in why this whole thing seems over blown in the way mandates and restrictions came.
For polio, it was about stopping death, paralysis is a death sentence in most places in the world.
There obviously isn’t one, that’s part of weighing the risks - which we didn’t have enough time or data to do for covid and it’s vaccines. Part of the whole informed consent thing.
Thankfully we can all now choose, and see better data
You know you have to get COVID to have natural immunity, right? So what should we do, have COVID parties like parents used to have chicken pox parties for their kids?
Get the vaccine if you’re elderly or have underlying risks, otherwise doing 3 shots a year to stay up to date doesn’t look very beneficial anymore.
We didn’t know how ineffective the vaccine was in the beginning, but our leaders still said things like “This will protect you. Fully. Everyone needs to have it”. I’ll provide links if you didn’t see any of that going on.
It was a lot more political than it was scientific, which is a huge red flag.
Yes, I’ve heard of long covid. But it might as well be named “mid term COVID” as it applies typically applies to anyone who continues to see symptoms past the 3-8 month mark (this varies from study to study).
The vaccine doesn’t prevent this either though, but does seem reduce the likelihood, slightly.
We still don’t know what’s going to happen in the next 5+ years to come (with covid or the vax). These things can take a while to manifest sometimes, which is partly why vaccine testing is usually so extensively long, like 5-10 years (just not in this case for some reason).
If you knew anything, you’d know this isn’t the reason why getting vaccine approval takes so long. It takes so long because there’s a mountain of bureaucrats, lawyers, researchers, and money required to get stuff moving along. Vaccines are pretty low the totem pole for companies and the government to give a shit about, since they’re usually about prevention and not treatment. Companies and the government can’t throw everything at a vaccine to approve. The only reason the covid vaccine was streamlined was because, you guessed it, we were and are in a global pandemic. Nothing about the approval of vaccines was abnormal, it still took nearly 2.5 years.
I wouldn’t say they’re “low on the totem pole”, they’re supposed to be one of the most strictly regulated medical products. In part because vaccine producers can’t be held liable for anything - so extensive testing and review is needed.
That industry isn’t just peanuts either, it’s one of the largest industries in the world.
2.5 years is abnormal (and testing hadn’t finished when everything started becoming mandated). The global population was the test lol.
Google how long all the other vaccines we have took to get approval, ~10 years seems pretty normal, maybe not in your country though. Hopefully it never comes to this again
It’s so funny how you guys operate. Even when confronted, you just cherry-pick what’s being said and strip away the context to push the exact same anti-science and anti-truth positions that were just given retorts. I don’t know if it’s ignorance or wilful deceit, but either way, people like you are a net negative to humanity.
The vaccine doesn’t hang out in your body, so there’s no way that there’s going to be effects 5+ years later. Or even 5 months later. I forget the exact amount of time, but it’s out of your body in a very short time…like 24-48 hours.
Having it can lead to long term damage (lungs, heart, etc.) even if you survive and mostly recover.
Early on they were able to show that people who got the 2 dose initial vaccine showed protection longer than those that were sick with COVID. Again, without the risk of long term organ/system damage.
The article does promote taking the vaccine as the safer route - which is agreeable if you have co-morbidities. But long term effects of either will only be shown over time, we still need more of that
They’re not new? Could you show me what other human vaccines we’ve made and deployed that use this tech?
Changing the disease it’s targeting changes the structures of the proteins that are created from the mRNA vaccine, and will change how your body responds to it (with each body reacting a bit differently) - so each time will warrant testing (ideally) before release to the public, especially before mandates are imposed
From what I understand, you’re correct that the spike protein is what caused the issues, usually to people’s hearts if they had an adverse event. The mRNA part is what instructs your cells to produce those spike proteins, which your immune system’s antibody’s should bond to in a similar way that it would with the corona virus
I’ll take the time to look at these after work, but I wanted to briefly chime in.
Co-morbidities or not, we have been aware since the beginning (well before the vaccines were available) that some people continued to have lingering symptoms and suffered other types of damage due to having contracted the virus. For example - an athletic coworker in her early 40s contracted it August 2020, and to this day continues to have heart problems. I work in hospice, and while the numbers are lower than they were over the last few years, we still regularly get patients entering hospice due to damage from COVID.
I have yet to come across a patient who needed hospice services due to a vaccine.
If I’m going to take a “risk” on anything, it’ll be the vaccine.
Just out of curiosity, are the people who’re entering your hospice from covid vaccinated against it too? It’s not easy to discern if it’s the virus or the vax if they’ve had both - and the reporting on it seems shoddy. It’s possible that both can cause issues as well.
Anecdotally, regarding your coworker, I’ve found it around me too that it’s some of the most athletic people had the worst time with COVID (not counting elderly or people with co-morbidities). For the people I know personally, they aren’t sure if it was from COVID or the vaccine though, as they’d been vaxxed about a month prior to contracting COVID so it’s hard to tell. That also speaks a bit to as to how well the vaccine worked lol.
Let me know what you think of that study when you get some time
Why do you need a 3rd ühase of trials in a pandemic? Do you also not wash your hands after pissing and shitting? There hasnt been a trial for that.
Which source told you that medicine isnt safe if it doesnt get 3 trials?
No homeopathy ever goes to trials.
Your painkillers didnt get 3 trials.
Right because injections and washing your hands are comparable.
The “source that told me” was a bit of critical thought and common sense. This was a vaccine with tech we’ve never used on massive populations before, pushed by political leaders, followed by media outlets and gov leaders trying to paint everyone who questions it as if they’re the worst people humanity has to offer. Ofc we need extensive trials for a vaccine like that (or any vaccine), especially when the producers of the vaccine are immune from liability.
Do you remember what informed consent is? If you’re injecting stuff into you, without fully understanding what either the virus itself can do, or what the vaccine can do, you’re just blindly following people.
It’s this same mentality and confusion that lead to our current opioid pandemic. Blind trust in our institutions and leaders
So your source is no source. You think you’re smarter than science. Gotcha. You apparently don’t know that mrna is in use since 2001… But youre smarter than everyone else.
You asked me what source I need to want full trials for a vaccine. You have the wit of a teenager.
mRNA hasn’t been used in a vaccine like this before.
30 years in the scheme of things is still absolutely nothing. We had lead in our gasoline and our drinking water pipes for decades without anyone actually understanding the issue, and just trusting “it’s all safe!”
Virus comes out and we pump out a fully produced vaccine in MONTHS. Of course it’s safe and tested fully /s
You’re just proving how little your critical thinking and common sense is worth. My guy… Modern vaccines as injections are only around 100 years old. 30 years is a third to a fourth of that time. That isnt relatively new. 30 years is an eternity.
Sars cov 1 is a thing that was succesfully vaccinated against and sars cov 2 is a variant that shares many things with 1.
I also asked you what sources you have that support your argument that vaccines need a 3rd trial.
You answer was “it came to me in a dream/i pulled it out of my ass” you have the wit of a sockhamster.
Billions of people have the vaccine and a booster. It’s been more than 3 years. No long term negatives. You’re just dumb and contrarian for the sake of it.
Well depends on how you define toilet. The flushing toilet was invented after issac newtons life so it definitely wasnt on what what would currently be considered a toilet.
Odd that the people who question vaccines are the same people who don’t question the medicines they put into their mouths when they get sick. Do they know that vaccines and medicines are researched and manufactured in a similar way?
They probably should question them. Even something as seemingly benign as Paracetamol is not without its issues if used too often, or after alcohol. It can do serious harm. Most medicine can.
Another fun medicine fact. Australia banned the sale of pseudoephedrine from store shelves quite some years ago to try and reduce domestic amphetamine production. Ever since, all of the major pharma brands have sold phenylephrine based cold and flu medicine as a replacement. Our Therapeutic Goods Administration recently found that this preparation is no better than placebo. We’re talking about a billion dollar industry that has been knowingly selling snake oil for ten years.
I guess what I’m saying is a healthy dose of skepticism and knowledge seeking should be applied to anything you are putting in your body or exchanging money for. The pharmaceutical industry are not saints. They’re just as driven by profit incentives as every other business.
I don’t think it’s some conspiracy that they have known and hid it. And at least in the states you can still get the real stuff behind the counter too with ID.
I’m not discrediting anything you said though just adding on.
This ^. There are so many medications out there that either do nothing, or the side effects are worse than what they’re treating. Pay attention to what you’re taking, and look into everything. The Pharma industry is about money. That’s it. Money. They don’t care about making you better, they care about what kind of profit they can make off of a new drug. There’s not a single pharma company that can be trusted. And this isn’t only drugs that they are more worried about making money on, vaccines too. You don’t really think the pharma companies came out with a COVID vaccine because it was best for humanity do you? They knew the government would pay whatever they asked for the vaccines, so they pushed them out as fast as they could. Work/doesn’t work? Doesn’t matter, as long as they made a profit.
Add statins to your list. After taking statins for 10 years, statistically, you can expect to live 1 day longer. But until death, you’re likely to experience crippling side effects.
strange that people forgot about H1N1 vaccine that they should rush on the first experimental shit - created 3 month after first chinese cases).
strange that people doesn’t get that the vaccine campaign started when the virus were not anymore as strong and the deaths were already reducing.
strange that people can’t read stats and demographics, why injecting our kids?!
strange that people doesn’t think that the lack of early support could lead to stronger illness development if not, death.
my friend got Covid (alpha), it was pretty bad but he also got nothing as treatment, just basic painkiller and O2, nothing else. Fortunately for him, he was in his mid 40 and strong, “just” ended up with a hole in his lungs due to excessive O2.
AND Finally, the binary vision that people against Vaxzevria and co are against vaccines is highly infuriating to me. Get you shot and leave me alone.
Strange how you apparently never thought to ask yourself “what if I’m wrong and the entire medical field is right?”
The lies you’re spreading kill people. This essentially makes you a murderer. Great job spreading vaccine misinformation. There’s a special place in hell for people like you.
Strange that people think that the COVID-19 vaccine is “rushed” (it is not, the technology is 30 years old), when many other drugs were also rushed. Strange that most drugs have side effects but people only question when it is the vaccines that show it. Strange that the same people never question chemotherapy. Strange that they also don’t question the potential of addiction from painkillers and opioid-based medicines despite overprescription leading to opioid epidemic in the United States. The same people would also probably demand for antibiotics on common flu, even though antibiotics only work on bacterial infections, and not on viral ones such as the common cold, which is now resulting to concern of evolution of antibiotic-resistant diseases.
It is though people prefer the comfort of therapeutic medicines, even if the efficacy is little or perceived, and regardless of side effects, instead of the feverish side effects that vaccines could give despite the overall benefits outweighing the risk of getting full blown sickness without taking it. It is though people are myopic, hedonistic creatures of comfort who would forgo long term safety for short term convenience.
I really doubt we’d survive in the next 100 years.
People (idiots) prefer therapeutic to preventative because of shitty/misattributed confirmation bias. If they get the shots and don’t get sick, it’s not because of the shots, it’s because they weren’t ever going to get sick anyway. If they get sick, take something, and get better, it’s because of whatever they took. They can’t see the vaccine helping them, so it isn’t happening, and if it isn’t happening, then it’s worthless, and if it’s worthless but someone’s trying to “make” you take it anyway, it’s cause they have an ulterior motive.
Additionally, antivaxxers group all vaccines as if they’re all the same. “The vaccine on malaria didn’t work? The vaccine on polio must be the same”. But they would not apply the same incorrect conclusion to medicine. “Oh the immunotherapy on cancer didn’t work. I will take painkillers to ease the pain at least”. Medicines and vaccines are not all the same and this doesn’t register to many.
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