mander.xyz

don, to science_memes in Corvids...

Post a tweet asking wtf you’re supposed to do w that information obviously

hexaflexagonbear, to science_memes in A History of Medicine
@hexaflexagonbear@hexbear.net avatar

Retvrn

Varyk, to science_memes in Corvids...

Don’t take anything away from them.

Anticorp, to science_memes in A History of Medicine

That sounds a lot more fun than the current medical system.

Franzia,

I fullheartedly agree.

dditty,

Shoot me up Dr. Feelgood

LemmyKnowsBest,

The lawmakers have learned to keep all the fun stuff for themselves and prohibit anyone else from having it. It’S iLLeGaL unless you’re wealthy.

happybadger, (edited ) to science_memes in Corvids...
@happybadger@hexbear.net avatar

livescience.com/crows-understand-concept-of-zero.…

www.jneurosci.org/content/41/22/4889

ABSTRACT: Different species of animals can discriminate numerosity, the countable number of objects in a set. The representations of countable numerosities have been deciphered down to the level of single neurons. However, despite its importance for human number theory, a special numerical quantity, the empty set (numerosity zero), has remained largely unexplored. We explored the behavioral and neuronal representation of the empty set in carrion crows. Crows were trained to discriminate small numerosities including the empty set. Performance data showed a numerical distance effect for the empty set in one crow, suggesting that the empty set and countable numerosities are represented along the crows’ “mental number line.” Single-cell recordings in the endbrain region nidopallium caudolaterale (NCL) showed a considerable proportion of NCL neurons tuned to the preferred numerosity zero. As evidenced by neuronal distance and size effects, NCL neurons integrated the empty set in the neural number line. A subsequent neuronal population analysis using a statistical classifier approach showed that the neuronal numerical representations were predictive of the crows’ success in the task. These behavioral and neuronal data suggests that the conception of the empty set as a cognitive precursor of a zero-like number concept is not an exclusive property of the cerebral cortex of primates. Zero as a quantitative category cannot only be implemented in the layered neocortex of primates, but also in the anatomically distinct endbrain circuitries of birds that evolved based on convergent evolution.

SIGNIFICANCE STATEMENT: The conception of “nothing” as number “zero” is celebrated as one of the greatest achievements in mathematics. To explore whether precursors of zero-like concepts can be found in vertebrates with a cerebrum that anatomically differs starkly from our primate brain, we investigated this in carrion crows. We show that crows can grasp the empty set as a null numerical quantity that is mentally represented next to number one. Moreover, we show that single neurons in an associative avian cerebral region specifically respond to the empty set and show the same physiological characteristics as for countable quantities. This suggests that zero as a quantitative category can also be implemented in the anatomically distinct endbrain circuitries of birds that evolved based on convergent evolution.

edit: The idea of zero is always one of those things that seemed like it didn’t need big brain mathematicians to develop, like the Pythagorean theorem being a common sense thing you naively get if you’ve ever walked somewhere with a diagonal shortcut. You have a practical need to understand the absence of something numerical if you are a social animal dealing with resource scarcity. If I forage 10 handfuls of berries and need to distribute that to my group of little monkey-ass things, I don’t eat unless I understand that I can give away 9 handfuls but not 10. Even if I knew nothing else about mathematics I’d know 10-10 equals some kind of total absence of berries, with those still existing as a category without a quantity.

Nakoichi,
@Nakoichi@hexbear.net avatar

This reminds me of Kropotkins mutual aid a factor of evolution.

Karyoplasma,

Isn’t the Pythagorean theorem less about the fact that a diagonal is shorter than taking a corner (which is indeed obvious) and more about calculating how much shorter it is?

TrudeauCastroson,

The reason this corvid study is different from intuitively knowing that 10-10=no berries is where this 0/empty set is represented on the numberline.

Considering 0 as a number vs the empty set are two different concepts. It’s the difference between having a bank account with $0, vs having no bank account. They don’t close your account when you have $0, so it’s still an amount of money.

Crows considering 0 on the numberline, and differently from the empty set shows they have a more abstract concept of numbers than we thought.

Idk who authored this study, seems like a very specific kind of person who is both into number theory and neural pathways of birds to design.

Raine_Wolf,

Or Anthropology. Right now, we have realized that New Caledonian crows have entered an equivalent to the early stone age in humans. Therefore, we can gain a lot of insight both about the nature of technological progression and of the very nature of intelligence (and the differences between mammalian and avian intelligence) by doing these studies.

Valmond, to science_memes in Peace is possible.

No, it’s a g

doingthestuff,

I thought it was a broken pretzel.

giantfloppycock,

Pronounced “g” or “g”?

gibmiser,

Well g is the 7th letter sooo

SPOOSER,

The person who created “g” said it’s pronounced “g” so that’s the correct answer.

SuckMyWang,

I heard “g” was created at around the same time in two different parts of the world. One of them claims it to be pronounced “g” and the other claims it to be pronounced “g.”

can,

At the very least it’s not incorrect.

lugal,

Found the descriptivist

can,

And proud!

lugal,

And rightfully so!

Rentlar,

8 ± 2 for your sake then.

Maultasche,

bradinutah, to science_memes in A History of Medicine

But what about the ghosts in my stomach?

fossilesque,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

That’s called GERD, Brad. See a doctor and get your cocaine.

rtxn, (edited ) to science_memes in Corvids...

If I’ve learned anything from Stargate, such knowledge leads directly to the ability to build self-propelled autonomous space mines.

Bishma,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’m really glad I wasn’t the only person who thought about that episode.

Transporter_Room_3,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

Indeed. raises eyebrow

Spendrill, to science_memes in Corvids...

Not only that, corvids understand the concept of zero fucks given.

MotoAsh,

They also understand social order and merc crows that are excessively rude thieves and whatnot. It’s a bit brutal but it’s indicative of individual identity and longer term memory.

stebo02,
@stebo02@sopuli.xyz avatar

if they start understanding complex numbers I will get scared

emptyother, to science_memes in Corvids...

Then they are already smarter than the average Mangalore.

https://programming.dev/pictrs/image/54cf806a-ae81-4895-b63f-06df83b3dbbd.jpeg

hakunawazo, (edited )

They are not the smartest guys out there, but at least they managed to kill the main bad guy of the movie:
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6de5c918-19ab-4f23-8835-79ca0ab55288.jpeg

oh sorry

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/79068905-f515-4177-b4fc-d7566e6a28e0.png

don,

Now a real killer, when he picked up the ZF-1, he would have immediately asked about the little red button on the bottom of the gun.

catharso,
@catharso@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

i really enjoyed the mangalorian though. it had weak moments but otherwise was a solid show.

Bishma, to science_memes in Corvids...
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

And if my knowledge of history is worth anything, we didn’t learn about zero until the 70’s

asg101, to science_memes in Corvids...

Alex the African Grey parrot showed us that he had an understanding of “none” 30 years ago. Good to see Corvid scientists catching up.

corrupts_absolutely, to science_memes in Corvids...

makes zero sense

corrupts_absolutely,

i meant zero makes sense

Rolando, to science_memes in Corvids...

I bet a crow would know what to do with that information.

ericisshort,

But would a jackdaw?

Westcoastdg,

Here’s the thing…

Kolanaki, to science_memes in Corvids...
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I once saw a crow look both ways before walking across the street and I thought “Wow. What a dumbass, he could just fly over it and not have to worry about cars.”

Kerandir,

😂😂😂😂

anton,

I once saw a human look both ways before walking across the street and I thought “Wow. What a dumbass, he could just walk a mile to the unterpass and not have to worry about cars.”

sour,
@sour@kbin.social avatar

is savings energy

MNByChoice,

Cool. I have seen wild turkeys do this and in a crosswalk. It is really cool.

I have not seen them using the button to request the “walking man” yet.

ALostInquirer,

Do you think they might use the button sooner if the symbol was a walking turkey?

clueless_stoner,
@clueless_stoner@feddit.nl avatar

Only one way to know.

force, (edited )

Birds are too powerful to need to use a beg button

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • localhost
  • All magazines
  • Loading…
    Loading the web debug toolbar…
    Attempt #