For every major Fedora update I’ll try to perform the upgrade from the Gnome Software app just to see if it works, and every time it breaks and I fall back to good ol’ dnf system-upgrade. This is the first time upgrading from Software worked for me, and it was fast too. Nice to see all the Software improvements finally paying off.
How hard do you have to search to find these x11 fanboys? Because whenever this topic comes up, the only detractors I see are users who complain because they can't use wayland for various reasons.
On the other hand those on the other extreme are easier to find, as they always celebrate x11 users (willingly or not) getting screwed; so toxic.
I was going to say, you haven’t been on the internet long enough if you think there aren’t people out there petty enough to defend a dying display server 😂
X11 development is dead so it really is just a matter of time before Wayland is the norm and you’ll be saying stuff like “back in my days we used X11 and we liked it!”
You could also list a bunch of insane stuff about X11. The security being hilariously bad, random tearing all the time, terrible multi-monitor support, terrible gesture support, etc.
Of course it matters. Maybe you didn’t know, but Wayland doesn’t exist in a vacuum, X11 is the other choice. How could you possibly think it doesn’t matter lmao
Most distros are already Wayland and have been for a while.
Now I understand why some people in the comments from other platform said “Fedora is the new Ubuntu”; in popular perspective today! Loud applause to the Fedora Dev team! Respect.
we could have more merging of projects, like xfce and mate, both trying the same thing, both started with the same goal(keep the old gnome style) but both need help, why don’t work together?
edit: xfce is old than gnome 3 so i was wrong sorry, but more collaboration on apps that both need is interesting
What? Please no. XFCE is its own thing. It is not old GNOME. They are both GTK based so a little collaboration on apps they both need would be interesting. Beyond that, they are different projects—like GNOME and KDE. BTW, there is also an “old” KDE called Trinity.
yeah, even KDE dev said about it on their blog, that they gonna stick with their own library but it’s possible to port KDE to work on wlroots in the future, so theur don’t spend so much time in something that only them work(btw kde work very closely to wlroots anyway)
XFCE and LXDE are nice in their own right. I used to run xfce and lxde on my laptops and netbooks. Those bottom of the barrel, underpowered, bargain bin machines hummed. At the time though HiDPI support was weak still (at least for xfce) so they never made it to my desktop. Didn’t like many multi-sized monitors. I assume this is a problem of the past now.
Hopefully Fedora and others forcing users onto Wayland is going to help push Wayland devs to fixing the stuff that’s breaking compatibility for everyone still stuck on X11.
Yeah, I share the feeling. Not sure if the problem lies on Wayland or Nvidia but hopefully if Wayland becomes the standard they’ll address the elephant in the room!
Wayland is just a set of protocols, which work fine (albeit with limitations) when implemented properly. So if KDE’s implementation of its share of the APIs works correctly with Intel and AMD GPUs, but not with Nvidia ones, the culprit is extremely likely to be the latter.
I had a quick go at it yesterday (the latest 535 broke DDC CI for one of my monitors, making plasma-powerdevil unable to start) and for whatever reason KWin ran at something like 3 seconds per frame. No that’s not a typo, I mean it. I hope it’s fixed before it gets to Arch’s repo.
EDIT: It works! I had to switch to the DKMS driver (the main one isn’t in the repos yet) but other than that my Wayland session didn’t die a horrible death. Well smooth. I still didn’t test much, but at least night light works.
This is what I don’t get. AMD has driver issues on windows because of a combination of their own incompetence and windows updates doing stupid windows things - people squarely lay the the blame on AMD. NVIDIA releases bad closed source drivers causing issues on linux - somehow the fault of linux and the open source communities.
These people should be hounding NVIDIA to fix their issues instead crying to DE developers to fix issues caused by NVIDIA.
because in Windows, blame doesn’t solve problems. You can blame Microsoft, or you can blame AMD, but either way nothing will change. In Linux, there’s some level of accountability because almost all software has maintainers (if not, you can step up personally). Similarly, you can’t hold Nvidia accountable on Linux - best you can do is not buy their GPUs.
Completely agree, as an NVIDIA user (for now) I am screwed if I am required to use Wayland. I mean, I use Wayland for a long time and it works well with NVIDIA but there are many things that don’t quite work, like many emulators (Yuzu/RPCS3) that for some reason have a strange tearing, or some programs that simply won’t open in xWayland.
Completely agree. I keep trying to open a new session on a clean new user regularly to check if it works and it is absolutely horrible. 3 days ago after updating the system and seeing some new latest kde versions coming in, tried again and noped the out of it in a few minutes. The fonts and scalling in so many places are very bad.
I keep reading about great improvements in the 6 version and am really hopeful for it to be usable.
Or the problem is just that no developers have normal regular laptops that are 14’’ at 1080p and can’t imagine that proper scaling at 125% and 150% needs to work out of the box.
Edit: I don’t even have nvidia hardware, it’s just regular intel stuff. Can’t imagine the struggle of nvidia folks.
Many apps are designed with bitmap icons (png, jpg) instead if svg, so fractional scaling requires manual changes.
Also, frameworks like GTK don’t have enough development resources to quickly make changes to support anything besides integer scaling. It’s difficult to change to fractions if everything assumes integers.
PS: “making stuff show up bigger on a screen” works already, it’s just not perfect. Windows is as far as I know the only OS coming close to doing scaling perfectly. Except Android and similar OS that were designed with fractional scaling in mind.
I’m really looking forward to Plasma6. I know gnome has its fans but I am really just a reluctant user. Every day gnome works against me and I have to resort to workarounds.
Do I want to navigate, inspect, and manipulate my files quickly? I use dolphin.
Do I want to have a convenient panel to get a very quick glance of my currently running programs as well as a place to pin my most commonly used ones? That’s an extension.
Do I want sub-windows to always block their parent window, preventing me from interacting with the parent further? No solution.
Do I want desktop icons? Do I want excessive notifications from common tasks my computer is doing instead of from my own programs?
I have more complaints but I think I am making myself clear. Overall I do like gnome and it has good performance, but there are so many annoying aspects. KDE is itself not perfect. There’s enough reasons for me to continue using gnome over kde5. But that’s why I hold out hope for plasma 6.
What are your reasons to use gnome over kde? Most of the things you mentioned are reasons I use gnome over kde so I’m curious to know other perspectives.
Overall I do think KDE is more cluttered. So I like Gnome’s streamlined appearance (even if it omits too much). I also think the desktop compositor and shell are really well made, (i.e. mutter and gnome-shell), so I don’t really have performance complaints.
Anybody else really hate how a lot of gnome programs have settings that are hidden in the optional gnome-tweaks program instead of putting them in the control panel or program preferences? I swear gnome3 is the only DE that genuinely despises its users.
I want to support pharonix but damn, chill out ob the ads. Especially the video overlays on mobile. It is unusable without an ad blocker, while at the same time saying they are ad supported.
Do you mean products like their VPN? They really need the revenue to try and become more independent from Google. Right now something like 90% of their income comes from a deal with Google to make Google the default search engine.
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