What could my upstairs neighbor possibly be doing to make this much noise?
Their foot steps sound like they just have 2 pegs for feet… they hit so hard.
And they frequently, almost daily, spend the entire evening stomping around the entire footprint of their apartment.
Are there people who really just get the top floor, and think “I’m so smart, and everyone else can get fucked” then proceed to make all the fucking noise in the world?
I kind of wish that multi-unit housing came with sound isolation ratings. That’d create an incentive to have better isolation and help customers weigh the tradeoffs.
This is part of my argument against the recent trend to allow bigger wood framed buildings, so they’re cheaper. There’s only so much you can do to soundproof a multi family house, but a large apartment building needs more. You know here’s higher risk of fires, flooding and damage just by having more people. You know statistically there will be noise issues. You can’t just pass the responsibility on the tenants when you know this will be a problem. Larger buildings should be required to be built in a way to protect tenants from this, ie. Not wood. They deserve at least as much consideration as the builder’s profits
Larger buildings are required to do this under IBC, and have been for many years. You can absolutely make a modern multifamily wood framed building quiet with proper design and construction.
There’s no perfect building material. Wood has issues. But concrete is terrible for the planet from a climate perspective and we’re rapidly running out of quality aggregate (especially sand) in many parts of the world. You can make a list of pros and cons about any other material, too.
we need to put sound insulation into the building codes. it won't increase rents much since all the money's in the land anyways. personally I've never had an actual issue with noise form other units but I'll grant this to the people who do.
I don’t really want to force a specific bottom limit on sound insulation, which is what that would do, though.
Some people won’t care as much as others relative to price and may not want to pay what it’d cost. And some people may want a much-quieter unit than any bottom limit would place.
The problem is that they can’t make an informed decision now because the information isn’t available.
Might be worth just mandating it since you can also fix thermal efficiency issues at the same time. And that affects everyone since poor thermal efficiency = more pressure on the electricity grid and increased risks of extreme cold and heat to individuals.
But transparency would certainly be better than nothing.
It is, but LEED was kind of a flash-in-the-pan fad for tax breaks and hardly any developers strive for a LEED certificate anymore (exception I’ve seen is govt projects). the cost of LEED certification is too much for most developers to stomach.
Nowadays I mostly see LEED as an extra set of letters in a person’s email signature.
Perhaps LEED should be replaced by a bunch of smaller certifications, each covering only a tiny subset.
It is nice to have one logo you can stick on a building, instead of lots of them. But after a little pushing it could be normalized to have a spot for multiple plaques near the entrance of a building, showing which certs it has earned.
Then you have a lower bar for entry and owners can choose a la carte what they want to strive for, and disregard the rest.
Like, a sound isolation rating on an apartment building would be a huge selling point. Have a certifying company that brings in big speakers and microphones and tests room-to-room sound conduction. Then you get a certification for the soundproofing.
I guess the nice thing about private cert authorities is anybody can just do this. It would take a while to get recognized but you could solve the two-sided marketplace problem pretty easily.
LEED kinda works like that with the different levels. LEED Gold checks off requirements a, b, and c; LEED Platinum also includes d and e, etc. I’m not LEED accredited, though, so I can’t speak to the finer differences.
There is a new standard making headway called WELL Certification . I’m not sure the difference between this and LEED but I’d be interested to learn more one day.
First, IBC has had this as code for at least 15 years.
The International Building Code (IBC) establishes minimum requirements for airborne and impact performance of multifamily buildings. The minimum code requirement is STC 50 and IIC 50. Since many factors can affect the transmission of sound in the field, including non-standardized source and receiver rooms as well as construction tolerances, a field measurement (ASTC or AIIC) of three to five points below the lab measurement is acceptable to meet code requirements.
As the understanding increased of how STC and IIC ratings correlate with occupant comfort, the International Code Council (ICC) issued ICC G2-2010, “Guideline for Acoustics,” which established two additional levels of acoustical performance:
acceptable, defined as STC 55 and IIC 55; and preferred amount of isolation as STC 60 and IIC 60
Second, all the money is most definitely not in the land. As a general ballpark, developers want the land to be under 1/4 of the total cost of the project.
Nice. How effective is that minimum standard? Most currently existing buildings are of course older than 15 years so most people won't have experienced it. Sadly these days anywhere remotely urban has way more than 1/4 the cost as land, espically for already existing buildings
You reminded me that last week I actually could tell they were doing burpees in the Livingroom. Between the cadence of the various noises, and the fact they came in 3 sets of 10, I’m like 99% sure. So that was amusing, counting and identifying that activity.
We call ours the centaurs who live upstairs sometimes. They’re just some college girls, definitely not disabled or anything. They make just as much noise flying up and down the stairs sometimes. They’re definitely louder than anyone else who has ever lived above or below us. I think they legit do some sort of dance or exercise routine because sometimes it’s very regular, rhythmic. Idk it’s happy sounds. Happy neighbors having a good time don’t usually bother me, no matter how noisy they are. I’m sure I have a limit, but noisy walking and the occasional party isn’t gonna get me there.
That’s really cute. I like hearing people’s music in their nice speakers too, percolating up through the floors, and one of my old housemates was a singer and it was always nice to hear her. Sometimes I’d try to sing along too.
I think it makes me a happier person to hear it. It makes me feel like I’m in a community.
The occasional stuff isn’t a problem, it’s just the hours-long full-floorplan pacing sessions that bug me. Thankfully it’s mostly blocked out by my headphones.
One of me Nextdoor neighbors has this laugh that comes through our shared wall (unfortunately my bedroom wall), but like you said, hard to be annoyed with people enjoying themselves. If they’re laughing it up when I’m trying to get to bed I’ll just put on some rain sounds or something.
It’s possible they are either disabled or have a disabled friend / family member visiting. Someone who can walk but not well. In either case hopefully it’s just one off.
Have been living together with my brother with only one wall in between that has nothing in between and let me tell you: two drywalls with air in between resonates just right on a mechanical keyboard at 2am. Now obviously floors have quite different standards even just when it comes to the load they have to carry, but that said, there’s things that make it better and worse. Carpets can be good, dampening in between is good, putting little silicon plates in between stuff that connects to the floor is also good.
And then ofc if they decided to start dropping pianos on the daily, that might make a difference.
Either way, talking to them is probably the best option. There’s not really much you can do about noise from the floor above you.
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