How long would you live if electricity for the whole world went out permanently?

I was having this conversation with my daughter and thought it was an interesting topic.

If an EMP or solar flare took out everything electronic in the whole world (permanently), how long do you think it would take for you to die, given your current location and circumstances.

I believe my daughter thinks we would live a lot longer than I do, but she is thinking about how long she can live without the internet while I am thinking the world will quickly descend into anarchy.

With no traditional forms of transport, so supplies would dry up, limited resources, health etc, law and order would be a challenge as things become more desperate.

I think I would live for about 3 months. I would try to get the family somewhere safe and remote and come back later, but I think most people would have the same idea.

justlookingfordragon, (edited )
@justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world avatar

I have a bike and know how to repair it, so if there are materials availiable in case of an emergency, I would have a means of transport that doesn’t rely on electricity or gas. I’m a bit out of shape ATM but that’s a problem that would fix itself if I “had to” rely on a bike to get around.

I know how to build fires, chop and dry wood, sharpen an axe properly and there are lots of trees around these parts, so with a little extra work I would be able to stay warm and cook food. I think I even still have my grandpa’s old axe here somewhere.

My grandparents taught me how to preserve stuff properly; drying, pickling, smoking and canning raw foods, like fruit, veggies, fish, meat and mushrooms. I know how to grow and store potatoes properly - the only thing I’d need here would be a bit of fertile land and a cellar, but in case of a world wide disaster like that, it would probably not be that hard to find people willing to turn their lawn into a field and toss out obsolete electronics out of their cellar to store food there instead.

I know how to fish and I’m not that bad with a bow either (medieval enthusiast here), and I know how to quickly kill and properly prepare chickens, ducks and rabbits. No actual experience with bigger animals yet, but the basics are there and I’m not icky about getting my hands dirty. I know how to skin rabbits too, but I have not yet tried to make leather / pelts.

I am somwehat okay at identifying wild mushrooms, but not good enough to be 100% certain all the time, so that’s a point where I needed to be cautious.

There are plenty of small rivers around these parts, so drinking water might not be an issue, provided that stuff is actually safe to drink. Boiling doesn’t always remove all the nasty stuff, and I only have a very vague idea of how to build filters out of natural materials, so I would either need to experiment around, rely on the knowledge of others, or look it up on the then nonexistent internet.

I would definitely miss the internet and since I’m a total videogame nerd as well, it would suck big time to lose that hobby permanently, but as for sheer survival, I’m fairly certain I would make it for a while, especially if I could find other people to teach them what I know and build a small community. I can’t do ALL of the things mentioned above all on my own every single day for weeks or months on end, but if the knowledge is there and there are people willing to learn and do their share, I’m positive it would work out after a while.

The biggest issues would probably be medicine and other people: My knowledge about natural medicine is VERY limited - birch bark for pain and the like, but I wouldn’t be able to treat more serious injuries or diseases properly on my own. And since people as a whole tend to be assholes when presented with disastrous conditions, I would be very cautious about whom to trust. A lot of doomsday preppers seem to have the only plan of hoarding weapons and food and shooting others when running low on supplies so they can take other people’s stuff, and that’s nothing I would want to have to deal with.

PS: Just to mention it; I live in a somewhat rural area anyway. Plenty of people here still keep their own chickens, live in houses that still have wood stoves and “old timey” fireplaces, grow their own veggies and fruit, and I know at least two families around these parts that still have horse-drawn carriages and trained shirehorses (they offer rides for a fee for events, parties and the like). A lot of older folks here grew up on farms and have the respective knowledge still. We even have a “traditional” blacksmith and farrier here, as well as a hunting club with a couple dozen members. The knowledge of how to survive without elctricity is definitely there, a lot of non-electric tools as well, and everything else is just a matter of time and cooperation.

Medicine would still be an issue tho. (Insulin has been mentoined a couple of times already - you can’t just substitute traditional natural folk medicine for everything)

kemsat,

There’s a book I read about this. I don’t remember the title, but it was written by some US senator or house rep, probably had a ghostwriter. It was about that, some enemy of the US, maybe it was China or Russia, detonated a bunch of nukes high in the atmosphere, causing the US’s electronics to be fried.

Assuming they did their research, the book had people survive for years, but definitely addressed how hard it would be. There was looting & rioting, the family had to eat their dog eventually, and there was a massive change in the importance of trust & community. I think it was like 3 years later that the reconstruction reached the small town, and it ended along the lines of “and then there was more work.”

It was a decent read, 7/10.

Extrasvhx9he,

I’d probably die because of looters so a month to 2 would be my guess

kalkulat,
@kalkulat@lemmy.world avatar

Good point. Having a *really * good stash isn’t a bad idea. BUT then there’s the rubber hoses. To avoid the looters, then, means moving away from them … and not leaving tracks to the stash.

I know a couple of things about making log cabins. For someone who’s got food and my back.

afraid_of_zombies,

Indefinitely. What remains of my government will be drafting me into some forced labor group all us sparkies will be ordered to report.

saltesc,

Hopefully quite a while. I’m regularly in the wilderness, a holiday is 2-3 weeks off-grid. The only thing I use electricity for is lighting (torches and camp) and music/radio, powered off battery’s that are handled by solar.

I aim to extend food by fishing, which usually is week 2 after my stored meat is gone and I need more protein. I have a couple of different weighted bows, but rarely hunt as it requires extra licensing. Lots and lots and lots of expedition-level outdoor/survival gear.

Combine that all with still having a house for shelter, should be fine. Love a book and crosswords for non-electric entertainment, otherwise mountain biking or rock climbing. I won’t get bored.

A_Random_Idiot,

I think fish wouldnt be as available as you think, since tons of desperate people will use less than ethical means to harvest every edible, living thing from the river systems.

Leaving to massive ecological damage, and possibly massive contamination as well.

tallwookie,

maybe for the first few weeks but most of the population thinks fish comes from a can, and beef from the store. most people dont have the ability to live off the land - they’re just walking sacks of fertilizer

A_Random_Idiot,

I think you misjudge, considering how massively popular fishing became during covid, as one of the only hobbies you could do that was outside and solitary.

tallwookie,

perhaps. still, to do it properly you’d need a boat & the ability to preserve the fish (salting station or smoker/smokehouse).

A_Random_Idiot,

You are thinking like a fisherman, and not a throng of panicky, starving masses.

I bet most the fish wont even be cooked before being consumed.

Nor will care be given for any toxins dumped into the water to try and scoop every living organism out of it in the starved panic.

tallwookie,

oof, raw fish? most fish have parasites (which is why sushi/sashimi has to be frozen or chilled to a certain temperature). no, you’re right of course but those folks wont last long enough for it to matter.

and if, just spitballing here but lets say 75% of the population succumbs to this hypothetical disaster, then the remaining population will have significantly lower impact on the environment, giving it a chance to recover. if anything, it’d be a net gain as there’s a lot of intentional dumping of toxins right now.

SoylentBlake,

Assuming an intentional EMP sent America back to the stone age, then America would respond in kind to China, N.Korea, Iran, Pakistan and Russia. England, continental Europe, Turkey, India, Israel, Japan, S. Korea would all have been hit with the same at the same time. If somehow we all just traded queens and stopped there, or if a prolonged solar storm hit the planet repeatedly accomplishing the same, I really think your optimistic limiting global losses to 75%

After the first northern winter I would assume 90-95% of humanity is gone. Those that can hunt are the most likely to survive. Seafood increases your odds of survival by orders of magnitude, as it requires some skill, but much less caloric investment before reward. By and large we’ve lost the ability to farm without fertilizers and pesticides, many will try but one early freeze will kill off dependant communities. Climate change making weather less predictable def does not work in our favor.

After the first winter I wouldn’t be afraid of strangers. Another person is far too valuable, when you remember that there are lots of things outside that will happily kill us. We only have strength when we’re in numbers.

tallwookie,

oh I agree, if a military attack/emp were to occur we’d use our mutually assisted destruction weapon systems (military hardened bases, not susceptible to emp) & wipe them out. it’d be the literal end of the world over there.

yes, it was very optimistic. 5 to 10 percent of the current population of America (the rest of the world wouldnt matter at that point) is still 15 to 30 million people. even spread out there’s still a good chance to develop small kingdoms, and those would specialize as they always do. trade routes would organically develop over time. it’s true that we do get a lot of things from overseas but the North American continent has loads of untapped resources, it’s just cheaper to get them from somewhere else in the world right now (take coal for example over in west virginia - they’d specialize in coal extraction, processing, chemistry, industrialization).

personally, I think the climate would stabilize fairly soon after such a catastrophe, probably within just a few generations - and if not, so what? no one is going to be living in cities that are underwater anyway.

Lauchs,

Depends if you’re fishing off a river or ocean/lake. Could easily see goofs just throwing a net across an entire river.

Even lakes, I wouldn’t be sure about in the long term. Every boomer with a fishing pole is probably headed to a lake if they can…

tallwookie,

oh yeah lakes/parks that the noaa/fish&wildlife departments stock up would be emptied soon enough. a fisherman needs patience though - and as fish stocks dwindle, you have to be patient for longer and longer…

saltesc, (edited )

I think your point would be true in a high population city in a high population nation where most of it is accessible to the average person.

I live in Australia, though.

Fishing requires gear, skill, and knowledge. For much of our fish abundance the average person wouldn’t survive getting to the area or know what to do once they got there. This is why they have untouched abundance.

TheInsane42,
@TheInsane42@lemmy.world avatar

I think the biggest issue would be food. We have loads of farmers in the area and the bike is usable. However, to many people in the area and a lot of specialized crop.

With the canned food, I guess around a month, then it’ll get challeging.

zacher_glachl,

I’m not too concerned. Worst case, my brother is a competition shooter and has a number of guns and the components for lots of ammo at home (he makes his own custom tailored ammo), while gun ownership is otherwise quite unusual in my country.

I suppose a major issue would be realizing early enough if things are not going to improve, and that it’s time to bug out to his place and switch to Fallout mode.

AWittyUsername,

If we can create fire we’d still have steam energy.

IamtheMorgz,

I feel like this is the kind of thing everyone overlooks in these kinds of scenarios. Thousands of people are going to be working on the problem. Okay, all our current electronics are fried, but that doesn’t mean we can’t make new ones. All our power plants and water treatment facilities suddenly don’t work… Well, people still have jobs at those places so someone is going to try to fix it. And I think most people sort of know and understand that, at least over the short term. Society doesn’t fall apart after every disaster.

And if it did, you’re probably wrong about how you’d respond or you’re not being creative and therefore are doing what everyone else will do and the resources will dry up and you won’t be one of the lucky few that makes it.

KevonLooney,

Well these questions are mostly for people to LARP about how tough and self-sufficient they are. No, society wouldn’t collapse because we didn’t have electricity for 99% of our time on Earth. Electricity was a luxury as recently as 100 years ago.

Number one issue is, can electronics be fixed? If yes, temporary issue. If not, and we are literally without power (for some magical reason) we just need a million more horses to cart food around. There wouldn’t be much looting. The new iPhone won’t work and how are you going to get away with anything bigger? Guns and locks still work without electricity.

I personally would start buying up property from people ignorantly fleeing cities. Most major cities are built on great harbors or waterways for sail and steam ships. People will try to farm, fail at it, and just buy from farmers like before. Food will move by boat first to major ports. Every prepper in the middle of nowhere will sit in a bunker eating canned vegetables while the rest of the world goes on with their lives.

You don’t actually need Facebook and Tik Tok. You won’t die without it. You’ll just read the same gossip in a magazine.

jmlw,

There was a TV series based on that idea; it got weird after a while but does point out some of the complexities of living without power. The show is called Revolution and came out in 2012.

Personally though, I doubt a majority of people would be able to survive long due to complications of getting fresh water, food, not to mention medical care, etc.

ProvableGecko,

As soon as the health system is out I’m taking myself out. It’s just not worth it without medicine

AtmaJnana,

Indefinitely, but significantly less life expectancy than if it didn’t happen.

I’m relatively well set up and experienced for that kind of thing. Don’t get me wrong, it would suuuck. But I think we’d be okay. I personally would probably not live as long because living rustic is fucking hard work and my kids are still too young to help much. We’d have a rough time of it, but I am confident that with our help my kids would figure out how to thrive by the time my health is failing. So yeah at least another generation or two seems likely even though I doubt I could last more than another 10 or 15 years living that way. Especially given that the first few years would be the hardest.

shinigamiookamiryuu,

My job and hobbies would both be affected, and I would be stuck in the middle of nowhere. Maybe a month.

happilybitchycowboy,
@happilybitchycowboy@lemmy.world avatar

Depends how prepared you are and how you play the cards you have. Taking care of family/others will definitely slow you down. Gas won’t last and when you start seeing people roaming around, better be somewhere safe!

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

I swear American fantasies about societal collapse are so frustrating. Everybody assumes people would turn to violence and greed immediately. Either it's because it looks good in movies or they genuinely think they suck.

Meanwhile in real extreme conditions everybody is all "let's get all the famillies together to help each other gather our crops" and "I have too many lemons from my lemon tree, do you want some for free?" "Oh, only if you take some of this fish I got that may go bad instead".

morphballganon,

I know a few assholes. And if they’re assholes in times of plenty, I have no reason to think they’ll grow a moral compass when the lights go out.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Plenty of assholes everywhere, though. It's not about a moral compass.

That's another weird one, I guess. You get this notion that suggests that rural settings somehow have the moral high ground or something. They don't. Sharing and community building are survival strategies. You help with gathering because you need help with gathering. You drop off the excess fish because at some point something needs to make up for your lack of lemons.

Going into a mad max rampage the moment the lights go off isn't being mean, it's being suicidal.

tallwookie,

it largely depends on if you’re in an urban setting (unsustainable population density) or an rural setting. in a rural setting, people are used to working together to make ends meet. in an urban setting, people are used to seeing everyone else as a stranger/potential threat - their social circle is smaller.

I currently live in an urban setting so I would gtfo immediately and go to a rural setting.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

That's fair. Having lived in both settings... well, yeah, the fact that food grows out of the ground with minimal coaxing is a distinct advantage if you have to survive a bad time.

But I've seen maps of the US. The fact that this is a culture-wide assumption goes beyond urban vs rural. You need a yard to make a bunker. Not many bunkers around here.

AceFuzzLord,

I would definitely die sooner than a lot of people because of my mechanical heart valve. The blood thinners and needing to make sure my blood isn’t too thin or thick would be harder since I’ve been getting it checked for over a decade and I’ve never seen them use a non-electric method of testing.

redimk,
@redimk@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I wouldn’t be able to use more of my medication, so if I keep taking NSAIDS every day, then until I have kidney/liver failure. I don’t know how long would that be.

That’s of course not accounting for someone trying to murder me to get the NSAIDS they couldn’t get, or someone else trying to murder me for my belongings/food. Since I have arthritis I can’t really defend myself so… Yeah.

I did talk to my wife about this on one of those drunken conversations and we both agreed to just end it when we see no other way because we both need medication to live.

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