Mint has very nice tooling but its a weird Ubuntu derivate. One day a specific software doesnt install, or you have an XOrg problem that will never be fixed, or standard updates simply break something, and then…
Mint is nice and easy to get going, but its outdated a lot, and uses a Distro model that I dont like to install on random laptops that are never updated.
So you’re a power user? Case in point, you’d be better for Fedora.
Also my second distro was mint, after 3+ years of the old hdd’s non-use, I pulled it out last year when my install of some OS broke, updated it to zero issues (I was curious), used the software for a bit, all was good.
3 years without an update to zero issues.
Haven’t seen any issue with Mint updates yet like I’ve fought in Fedora
It’s crazy crazy sort order that I can’t stand. They deliberately go in and remove certain characters from the filename, specifically to make the sorting behave weirdly.
I installed Mint on someone’s old laptop at my Uni’s lab (it’s mostly for the field of environment and agriculture so nobody is an IT expert here), he didn’t have any complaints and is actually falling down the Linux rabbit-hole, while others are considering switching to Linux too after seeing how it resurrected 2 old basically-defunct laptops.
I’d go with that, it is a trusty and reliable distro for newbies. I even know some greybeards that use it.
Then again as others pointed out he can try both from live USB. The important part is that you explain a distro can have everything another distro has with the right know-how and some patience, as well as how things work on Linux (for example: imstall programs using the package manager whenever possible). But again he isn’t a tinkerer so stock Mint will work just fine with him.
Also university wifi eduroam doesn’t work on Fedora for me because legacy TLS connection is not supported in Fedora (at least I couldn’t get it to work).
When the WiFi relies on insecure encryption, the problem will only be delayed on Mint because Mint’s underlying Ubuntu core is just older. Once a newer security policy comes to Mint, it will have exactly the same problem. The actual solution is for you university to update the WiFi encryption. In the meantime, according to fedoraproject.org/wiki/…/StrongCryptoSettings2#Up… the security defaults of Fedora can be rolled back to an earlier level quite easily.
Okay, after removing all the preinstalled media players plus firefox and reinstalling them through Flathub it might be possible to skip the official tutorial.
Fedora should just preinstall everything as flathub flatpaks.
the problem will only be delayed on Mint because Mint’s underlying Ubuntu core is just older. Once a newer security policy comes to Mint, it will have exactly the same problem.
That is a valid point. Although I can imagine that Mint devs would rather leave legacy TLS enabled to be more user-friendly.
If you are the one installing the distro, it probably doesn’t matter that you have to copy-paste some commands to install proprietary codes because it’s a one time thing. In my experience, the bigger problem usually is not the first time setup but the maintenance. In case of Fedora they would have to upgrade it every 6 months. That’s why I usually suggest LTS or something rolling but stabe distro like OpenSUSE Thumbleweed.
In case of Fedora they would have to upgrade it every 6 months.
The upgrading experience for Fedora Workstation is super smooth, on par with macOS, Android, and so on. Gnome Software just tells the user that a new version is available, the user clicks on the upgrade button and then it’s just waiting a bit and a reboot.
Okay, after removing all the preinstalled media players and reinstalling them through Flathub
Technically it’s not required to uninstall the default applications but obviously you’d still wanna do that to avoid clutter.
Fedora should just preinstall everything as a flathub flatpak.
Even though not Fedora-based but that’s pretty much what I have on SteamOS: Firefox, VLC, etc. all from Flathub. Because of the 32bit dependencies, Flathub is my preferred way to install Steam on regular Linux distributions anyway (for obvious reasons not on SteamOS).
That’s because Cinnamon is actually a fork of an ancient Gnome release
mate is what originally spawned from gnome 2. while cinnamon was built from gnome 3, it has been completely separated from it for a decade.
both are under active development, run current applications, and offer what would be described as a more 'traditional' desktop environment (compared to gnome shell or ubuntu's unity). they're both lighter-weight then gnome, with mate being a bit leaner than cinnamon.
mint would be my suggestion for op, and any of the default mint desktops, including their other option--xfce, would be suitable for op's use case.
while cinnamon was built from gnome 3, it has been completely separated from it for a decade.
both are under active development
I followed Cinnamon’s git closely for years. The commit “Renamed files to Cinnamon” was the last commit to the majority of files over years, despite the fact that Cinnamon had several formal releases in that time. It took literal years for its development to actually get off the ground and not just get some light touches in JavaScript files. The slow start reverberates until this day as you can see with its slow Wayland adoption and OP’s “Mint seems rather outdated” comment. IMO Cinnamon isn’t even the best choice for people who want a Windows7-like workflow. Gnome with Dash to Panel achieves the same with less technological legacy.
The one that really irks me now is that Nautilus in Ubuntu doesn’t show thumbnails for PNG images in the file selection dialog. It’s such an ass-backwards change that I’m legitimately shocked.
The file selection dialog is not a part of Nautilus. It is either a provided by the toolkit (e.g. Qt, GTK3, GTK4) or by a xdg-desktop-portal implementation. The GTK4 file chooser that is also used by GNOME’s portal implementation supports thumbnails since December 2022 or GNOME 44.
I guess you are using an older (LTS) version of ubuntu that uses an outdated version of GTK.
Okay. I’m glad that the situation is looking better, and it’s probably more on the Ubuntu people than the Gnome people, but it’s still an incredibly shitty experience.
that is a moccamaster machine so i think it has only simple electronics. i would be surprised if there were even a small microcontroller in that machine.
In general I would recommend any Debian derivate for beginners that just don’t care about how their computer is operating. So if this is really just a question regarding eight Fedora or Linux Mint then I would say Linux Mint because it’s a Debian derivative.
That’s simply because chances are high stat you will at least find a Deb package for any proprietary software you might want to use. Making it “easier” for the user.
If you install the system for your friend you’re free to change the Desctop environment to everything you want.
That’s simply because chances are high stat you will at least find a Deb package for any proprietary software you might want to use. Making it “easier” for the user.
Fedora ships unfiltered Flathub outof the box since quite some time. If easy access to proprietary software is a deciding factor, Fedora is among the easiest options.
anything that works on the latest Ubuntu LTS works on the latest regular Mint
Addon repositories can cause incompatibilities. Random individually downloaded deb package here, some random PPA there, spice it up with the Mint add-on repo to Ubuntu, and you can end up with a broken system (let’s say I learned the hard way a good amount of years ago only to combine a few handpicked repos).
Just in case you are on a desktop and using qemu for local virtualisation, I would recommend you use virt-manager.
Besides that, set up spice or vnc daemons in the guests, as others have said.
Just in case You’re virtualising Kali Linux, use their provided qemu image, you won’t have to worry about it. If you don’t know what Kali is, don’t use it.
Thank you for the virt-manager recommendation. I’ll look into it.
I did build Kali from their ISO but I’ll give their provided image a try. I do know what Kali is and what it is used for. I’ll be using it for TryHackMe labs.
Okay, so my guess was right. Don’t bother setting things up manually, qemu and libvirt are hellishly complex. If you don’t need something super special, use virt-manager.
Just use the provided qemu image on the Kali site, import it, and you’re good to go. Don’t worry about the other stuff.
Depending in your screen you might have to set a custom screen resolution, but if you’re using something standard, xfce should automatically recognize everything.
A little tip: set up an ssh server on the VM and upload an ssh key, that way you can get a Kali she’ll quickly from the comfort of your hosts terminal.
Chances are your friend’s secondary laptop doesn’t have extra resources for Gnome to run smoothly. Sad thing is nowadays Gnome is very heavy and bloated.
Also, he may try both distros live-usb. Maybe he don’t care about Mint looking outdated. But if he does, you may try Fedora live-usb and check if university wifi works properly.
It’s his laptop after all, so I believe your appreciations on the beauty of desktop environments are secondary.
It’s his laptop after all, so I believe your appreciations on the beauty of desktop environments are secondary.
You are right. I was thinking that the Fedora workflow might give him some Linux-exclusive benefits over Windows so he might consider switching his main laptop too. Mint is rather a drop-in replacement for Windows so the advantages of Linux are not very visible/important for a newcomer. At least compared to a DE like GNOME.
It’s pretty new. Has wayland and pipewire. You can just enable a checkmark in the installer to install codecs. Uses Gnome, so a non-Windows like workflow. Pretty sure Eduroam would work there, as many schools use Ubuntu by default.
I haven’t tried Ubuntu yet myself, but generally I’m turned off by some decisions Canonical makes, especially the whole Snap thing adding complexity, slow app startup and proprietary store. Not very trustworthy.
But you are right, Ubuntu is the most popular and things like eduroam will likely work.
If your want something that just works, Ubuntu is pretty hard to beat. Snaps are really not a big deal anymore, performance wise; a lot of the bad rap on slow startups etc. are from years (and many versions) ago.
If you don’t want Ubuntu and you don’t like Mint, there are also other options in the Ubuntu/Debian family. Pop_OS and Zorin are both popular.
generally I’m turned off by some decisions Canonical makes
Those decision will trickle down to Ubuntu remixes like Mint eventually. Canonical’s plan is to replace as much as technically possible with Snaps. They just barely delayed shipping CUPS itself as Snap but it will come, so even a basic task like printing will rely on Snap. I don’t see Mint having manpower to package everything on their own, even if it’s “just” about porting Debian packages. Might just as well use LMDE right now.
that's the whole reasoning behind having LMDE. seems a little redundant today; but within a release or two mint may very well be only based on debian itself, with the way canonical is steering ubuntu.
within a release or two mint may very well be only based on debian itself, with the way canonical is steering ubuntu.
I expect Canonical going hard in the Snap direction leading up to 26.04. They are desperate given the fact that Flathub got a huge popularity boost thanks to SteamOS. I don’t think Ubuntu remixes will come out unscathed.
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