Sell Me on Linux

I posted this as a comment in another post but when I got done I realized it would probably just be better as its own post. I’m sure I could find the answers I need myself but frankly I trust the userbase here more than most online articles.

As my username hints at, I’m a lawyer. I’m considering starting my own firm as a solo practitioner. I need a computer and/or laptop for it, and as a new business my budget would be pretty tight. I’ve mostly only ever used windows, but I’m getting fed up with the bullshit, so I’m considering going with Linux.

I assume Linux is capable of doing everything I need, which is primarily handling word documents, viewing PDFs, watching evidence videos, and online research. But my concern is that some of the more commonly used video types might have trouble on Linux, or that some of the word document templates I use in Windows might have compatibility issues.

I’m also nervous about using an OS I’m not familiar with for business purposes right away.

So I guess I’m asking a few questions. What is a reliable yet affordable option to get started? Are my concerns based in reality or is Linux going to be able to handle everything windows does without issues? What else might I need to know to use Linux comfortably from the get go? Is it going to take a lot of time and effort to get Linux running how I need it to?

For reference, I do consider myself to be somewhat tech-savvy. I don’t code or anything, but I’ve built my last two home computers myself and I’m not scared of general software management, I just don’t make it myself.

So, yeah, sell me on Linux, please.

Kushia, (edited )
@Kushia@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ve worked with lawyers a bit in an IT role so I’ll put it bluntly. Don’t bother.

Why? You have to ensure complete compatibility with Microsoft Office standards in your job and you may also need to access third-party systems especially document management systems on a regular basis. These things require Windows. It’s a sad fact of life that your colleagues being able to read your documents and ensure consistent layout is more important than anything else.

Yes, you can try Libre Office and soforth. However, the moment the court staff, other lawyers or anybody else gets a jumbled mess you’re going to cause yourself more problems than it’s worth. Even you yourself need to be able to ensure compatibility when it comes to information storage and retrieval too.

Windows licences are essentially free with your devices anyway and the cost of Office is a couple of hundred bucks top. Money might be tight but losing information from your court cases could put you out of business.

Sorry Linux fanboys, but Windows is the superior option here as much as I wish it was not. It’s simply the best tool for the job.

phoenixz,

First: windows isn’t the superior option. This is basically windows being VHS, Linux being betamax. Linux is vastly superior, but it’s just that Microsoft marketing is too good at lying.

Second: Linux is very apt at running Microsoft programs, including office.

Third: fuck Microsoft office, use online office in a browser. Microsoft office 365 if you’re dumb (because my god, it’s cringy bad, or google docs if you want it easy (eats most Ms crap with little to no trouble) or if you want to go truely open source, setup nextcloud with only office.

Side comment: if governments or courts FOCRE you to pay money to a specific company to use services that can quite easily be done by open source alternatives then I say that smells like corruption and or incompetence.

Zangoose, (edited )
@Zangoose@lemmy.world avatar

About your side comment - It isn’t necessarily that they’re being forced to use Office. It’s more that office is the standard that everyone else is using, and therefore the standard everyone expects to work with. If anything breaks or displays incorrectly, it becomes your fault for not using the standard.

To be clear, I hate Microsoft and their monopoly, and the blaming I just described as well. It definitely happens though. Same reason most of Gen Z uses iPhones: if you have an Android phone any problem with phones/chatting suddenly becomes your fault, even if the underlying reason is actually because of Apple.

phoenixz,

But that’s the point: it’s NOT a standard and government or justice departments should require open standards so that EVERYONE can participate because everyone MUST participate. Now the government at least allows the defacto forced sponsoring of a single damn near monopoly. Want to use the government? Sorry, gotta pay your Microsoft taxes first. That is not okay, not acceptable. There are loads of open standards that can be and should be used and enforced

desconectado, (edited )

Like or not, it’s a de facto standard. Good luck trying to convince your colleagues to change their workflow.

I love Linux, but I would never recommend using Microsoft Office on Linux especially if you work in a collaborative environment. Saying that Linux can run Microsoft office without any issue is a blatant lie. I run virtual machines basically so I can run Microsoft Office, but I don’t think everyone wants to go though that much hassle.

Kushia, (edited )
@Kushia@lemmy.ml avatar

You are right in everything except that it’s absolutely not the superior option in OPs situation. A lawyer has to guarantee that a document is identical and recallable in its exact form even years from now and the only way to absolutely ensure this is using Office itself.

Furthermore, most law firms use and have to access other parties document management systems and the thick clients for these with all the features only run on Windows. Screwing around with WINE to get these maybe working isn’t worth the hassle for a time-poor lawyer with cases to work on.

Computers are just another tool in the box when it comes to your business and you should use the best version of it to get the job done. It’s simply only Windows in OPs case here that’s the viable option. It might be corruption or vendor lock in or whatever but there’s no point trying to fight it in this scenario.

Secret300,

For me I just don’t like relying on some company. So if you don’t like getting fucking in the ass by tech giants use Linux

art,
@art@lemmy.world avatar

Sell me on Linux

No. I hate these kind of posts cause if you need to be talked into it, it’s not for you.

If you’re genuinely interested, just grab a distro and boot up a VM. Tinker and explore.

milicent_bystandr,

I disagree. It’s an invitation for Linux users to show what ways we think Linux would suit OP, so they can decide if it’s worth trying.

some_guy, (edited )

I disagree. Someone who isn’t willing to try Linux on their own, or otherwise investigate, just because they’re curious is not ready for the baggage that comes with a new OS. Agreeing with another comment: don’t make this change at the same time as other major changes to your career. That is a recipe for disaster.

I’m a Mac / Linux guy who dislikes Windows. I wouldn’t even suggest getting a Mac at the same time as making huge career changes. And Linux is harder. Not impossible, but no training-wheels. You want something new, but you aren’t really interested in Linux itself.

ETA: That last statement was unfair. Apologies.

EuroNutellaMan,
@EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world avatar

I think posts like these are actually a pretty good way to do research tho.

After all if you want to get a general idea of something the best place to start is by asking the people that actually use that thing.

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

only ever used windows, but I’m getting fed up with the bullshit

Well that’s why I switched 🤷

Drove me fucking insane that I couldn’t uninstall Edge. Tried a few times but it always reinstalled itself. It’s just the audacity to say “no fuck you” to the person who is giving you money. Can’t disable Cortana, can’t disable all the XBOX bullshit, not to mention it’s just becoming more and more like Android where the entire OS becomes dedicated to collecting your data. Linux has none of that, and that’s enough for me.

I’m also nervous about using an OS I’m not familiar with for business purposes right away.

Couple of solutions for this:

  1. Dual boot. When you have a hard time, just restart and boot into Windows.
  2. You can’t transfer storage across OS so make sure to use cloud storage for your work files.
CoopaLoopa,

Edge/IE run some underlying services for built-in windows features, so uninstalling them can cause issues with completely different parts of the OS.

Ran into an issue with a client still running Office 2016 where uninstalling IE11 prevented them from opening any links within those apps. Office was harcoded to look at IE for link handling and didn’t respect the setting for your default browser.

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

All the more reason.

Moobythegoldensock,

If you’re writing Word documents for your own use, to print, or to convert to PDF, you should be able to switch to LibreOffice seamlessly. However, if you’re emailing .docx files with the expectation that others are going to open them, make changes, save them, and send them back to you, you’re going to need Word or things will get messy. Office 365 online is probably your best bet.

I’ll echo what others are saying and tell you to learn linux at home first. Only use it for business when you’re sure it can do everything you need, and even then you might still want to keep a Windows laptop around in case you need it. Even though Linux is great, the rest of the business world still expects you to be able to work within Windows’ ecosystem.

interdimensionalmeme,

Also that fun thing libre office does where it disappears randomly with your work !

Moobythegoldensock,

Never had that happen to me.

interdimensionalmeme,

I tried OpenOffice and LibreOffice 6 times in 20 years and that happened each time.

oldfart,

Was “your work” writing memory corruption exploits in macro editor?

interdimensionalmeme,

Nope simple excel and word stuff and whoops crash to desktop work is gone

yetAnotherUser,

I’ve heard that OnlyOffice Community Edition is Linux-compatible and has better support for Word documents, but I’ve never tried it myself

jimbo, (edited )

watching evidence videos

You might run into some trouble with surveillance videos that require some proprietary video player to play. Not sure how often you come across those.

infinitevalence,
@infinitevalence@discuss.online avatar

depending on the type most NVR’s are just custom linux builds, so VLC has few issues. I have yet to find an NVR video I could not run on my box, but my sample size is not huge, and its not corporate surveillance level gear im testing with

Holzkohlen,

That a thing? Cause I am gonna believe you. The world is full of dumb ideas like that.

Mandrew002,

That’s human trafficking, I’m not into that

alt, (edited )

What is a reliable yet affordable option to get started?

Unfortunately, good affordable hardware on which Linux is properly supported is hard to get by. I’m personally fond of vendors like (in alphabetical order) Framework, NovaCustom, Star Labs, System76, Tuxedo. But other vendors like ASUS, Dell, HP and Lenovo are known to sell devices that do a considerable job at supporting Linux; consider to check the compatibility/support for their devices through resources like linux-hardware.org.

Are my concerns based in reality or is Linux going to be able to handle everything windows does without issues?

Regarding video types; I don’t think you should have any problems regarding those; on some distros it might not be supported by default, but that should be solvable with a single command. Relying on flatpaks^[1]^ instead is another viable solution and is enabled by default on a lot of distros. Moving on to word document templates; I suppose the suite of cloud-based services found in Microsoft 365 should work regardless. As for the question if the templates would work on LibreOffice, ONLYOFFICE and the like; I simply don’t know. On to familiarity of OS and using it for business purposes; most distros that are friendlier towards newer users have been setup with sane defaults. Therefore, I don’t think there’s a lot that could go wrong as long as you’re interacting with a GUI. When interacting with a command-line interface, note that information found on the internet is often times outdated. Therefore, if you’re hesitant or unsure; consider interacting with the community for some help. We’re all in this together!

is Linux going to be able to handle everything windows does without issues?

You should be totally fine aside from some software that’s known to not support Linux at all.

What else might I need to know to use Linux comfortably from the get go?

Ask yourself the following questions:

  • To what degree are you interested to learn how it all works and to experience what Linux offers?
    • If you see it primarily as a means to an end, then pick a distro that does an excellent job at accommodating your workflow without requiring you to relearn more than necessary.
    • If instead, interest in Linux itself is the main driving force behind the switch, then please be mindful that the Linux rabbit hole is very real.

Is it going to take a lot of time and effort to get Linux running how I need it to?

Somewhat related to the previous question*. Like, there are distros out there that I can install for my grandfather and he wouldn’t even notice the difference. But even some (relatively) mainstream-distros can be daunting for so-called power users of Windows. E.g. I would argue I was your average Windows-user; play games, browse the internet, email, write documents, video-editing, run software required for my studies etc. It took me about two weeks before I was ‘comfortable’ on Linux. And even then, some of the software I used for e.g. video-editing just didn’t want to play nice^[2]^.

So, yeah, sell me on Linux, please.

If you want freedom and control over your devices, there’s simply no viable alternative.

  1. Software management on Linux -at least on the surface- is closer to Android/iOS than to Windows. You should rarely (if at all) feel the need to find software through your browser. Instead, you should interact with so-called package managers. This can be achieved through either a command-line interface or a storefront with a GUI that behaves like those found on Android/iOS etc. Coming back to Flatpak; this is an (upcoming) universal (read: (mostly) distro-agnostic) package manager that tries to solve a lot of problems that traditional package managers have had. There’s still a lot of ongoing work for it to achieve its design-goals to the fullest, but even in its current iteration it works excellent and therefore it’s unsurprising to find it enabled by default on a significant chunk of the Linux landscape. Software that are packaged using this technology are referred to as flatpaks (or flatpak if singular).
  2. In retrospect, this seems to be primarily rooted in the fact that my machine isn’t that powerful in the first place. On Windows, it managed because it was better optimized for it. Unfortunately, on Linux, this was not the case.
inthiseconomy,

Just a quick correction, your framework link goes to system 76.

alt,

Thanks for pointing that out! It has since been fixed.

pineapplelover,

You can get a used thinkpad for a pretty affordable price. Main issue here is OP’s workflow may not accommodate learning Linux while at their job.

el_abuelo,

Starting a new business is hard enough as it is - please do not complicated it by adding in something that brings limited tangible benefits to the company, whilst making it unnecessarily harder than what it will be anyway.

Either get fluent now, and then start your business - or start your business with Windows and move on when you’re profitable and can afford the reduction in productively while you learn the ropes.

Do not go anywhere near MacOS - you can’t afford it.

GuyWithLag,

This is solid advice.

Also, the macOS ecosystem is predicated on you being rich enough (or fool enough) to buy it, and everything is nickel-and-dimed.

gianni,

As far as video types are concerned, Linux’s multimedia codec support is much wider & more flexible than Windows via Windows Media Player. The app Celluloid for Linux (based on MPV) supports everything under the sun

csm10495,
@csm10495@sh.itjust.works avatar

I don’t think every distro comes with this. How is it a positive in that case? I could install VLC on just about everything (including Windows) and have a similar experience.

gianni,

VLC isn’t a native Windows app, as it isn’t a native Linux app. Celluloid uses native styling on GNOME systems & is super easy to install with any package manager GUI that supports Flatpak. Installing apps on Linux is always easier by a long shot compared to Windows, especially with Flatpak.

I don’t know what is default on most distros, but it is so easy to change in this case that it is hard to even consider the default media player relevant compared to on Windows where there are fewer options for apps like VLC that actually give you a native experience

KISSmyOS,

I’m a big proponent of using Linux, but don’t do it.
A small company I support recently almost went under cause the boss and his former IT provider were both open source enthusiasts and set up his whole network with Linux.

Then he needed a secretary, and all applicants backed out when they heard they’d have to use Linux.
And he couldn’t find an enterprise resource planning software that ran on Linux.

vaselined,

This story sounds so fake

IHeartBadCode,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

I’m also nervous about using an OS I’m not familiar with for business purposes right away

Absolutely STOP. Do not go with Linux, go with what you are comfortable with. If this is business, you do not have time to be uncomfortable and the learning curve to ramp up to ANY new OS and be productive is something that's just a non-negotiable kind of thing.

If you've never used Linux, play with Linux first on personal time. For business time, use what you know works first and foremost.

All OSes are tools. You do not just learn a tool when your job is waiting for a bed frame to be made or whatever.

TL;DR

If you are not comfortable with Linux, do NOT use it for business.

cmg,

Agree here.

Spend your time making sure you are protected against ransomware with good offline backups and able to recover your practice. Keep your payments separate from your comms machine.

Your job is going to have lots of shady things to click on/invoice/etc

Plan for it so a malicious client/infected evidence/mistaken click doesn’t take down your practice.

I’m 25y into this as a technologist and still make mistakes on “oh this will be quick”. Make sure your time sinks are 100% aligned with your business. Think of automation / value and you’ll have the right mindset.

If you find the tech side fascinating, there’s always demand for good tech lawyers and lawyer comms are entryways into technology management.

mayoi,

If you don’t have a cheap throwaway laptop to try doing business with Linux, you have no business doing any business.

mateomaui,

🏆 for the dumbest comment, congrats

mayoi,

If you’re really this poor, give me your address and I will mail you a thinkpad that noone will buy from me for more than $20.

Isoprenoid,

My brother in Christ, this isn’t about the money. This is about meeting business deadlines. OP can’t be using time trying to figure out something on Linux when his clients are waiting.

His first clients are also going to be where his solo practice either sinks or swims.

Seasoned_Greetings,

This guy is a troll. He spends his time picking fights and deflecting anything that conflicts with his fragile world view. Check his profile.

Just thought you should know. He doesn’t really care about dispensing advice, he just likes feeling superior

Sage_the_Lawyer,

This is good advice, I appreciate it. But I should clarify, I definitely won’t be launching my practice before I’m comfortable with the OS. I’m probably going to take some other user’s suggestions and do some test runs on my home machine to figure things out. I’m not launching tomorrow, there’s no real rush. My current contract runs until May 2024. So I’ve got 6 months ahead of me to figure things out.

hillbicks,

My advice is try using existing documents with Libre office. You can install it on windows as well.

I use Linux for over twenty years now and installed windows on a vm last week to Wirte my resume. Libre office is fine, you run into problems when opening and editing existing ms office documents. At least that is my experience.

But give Libre office on windows a shot, see if you like it.

fushuan,

I’m going to nitpick your comment because we are Linux users and it’s in our blood.

Heard about LaTex? You don’t really need to use Word to write resumes. In fact, I’d advise you against it. It’s easier to go to overleaf, download an existing template and generate a usable pdf that won’t break.

grue,

Switch to Linux at home now. In six months, you’ll have a much better idea if you want to use it at work.

d3Xt3r,

In addition to the other comment re. LibreOffice, I’d also recommend trying out OnlyOffice - generally, it has better compatibility with MS Office formats compared to LO, and the UI is very similar to MSO which may make it easier to use.

constantokra,

PDFs might be your sticking point. I’ve not found any software that will handle all the different things you can do with acrobat in an easy way. But I have to heavily modify PDFs from time to time, and you may not have nearly the needs I do.

I’d suggest checking out libre office, and see if you can find a PDF application that satisfies you. The app store on pop os is really good, as is the interface, and if you don’t like tiling window managers, you can turn it off.

Another suggestion is to recognize you’re a novice. If you read something that sounds like a perfect setup, but it’s a little complicated, put it off. You don’t want to get in over your head, because linux distros will not keep you from breaking things. The defaults of any large distribution are a pretty safe bet.

bismuthbob, (edited )
@bismuthbob@sopuli.xyz avatar

I use linux to run my law office, so it can be done. Most of what I use is web-based these days, so headaches are minor. That being typed, I’ve been using linux off and on since the 1990s, and there was a fair amount of learning involved. A few notes:

-Libreoffice is good enough for document drafting, unless you’re extremely reliant on templates generated in Word. Even then, that’s a few hours of clerical work that you can farm out with, presumably, no confidentiality issues to flag. Also bear in mind that if you end up using different Linux distributions on more than one computer, then you may run into minor formatting differences between different versions of your word processing software. Microsoft Office will be a reliable option unless you run windows as a virtual machine. There are workarounds, but they aren’t business ready.

-Some aspects of PDF authoring can be tricky if you’re doing discovery prep, redaction, and related tasks in-house. This is very workflow-specific, so if you’re not a litigator or your jurisdiction doesn’t have a lot of specific requirements for pdf submissions, it might not be something that you need to worry about. If it becomes a problem, then a Windows virtual machine might be a solution.

-Video support depends greatly on the linux distribution, so you may want to do a bit of research and avoid distributions like Fedora, where certain mainstream AV formats are not supported by default for philosophical/licensing reasons.

-Compatibility with co-counsel and clients will be hit or miss. I don’t let anything leave my office that hasn’t been converted to PDF and I only do collaboration when there is a special request to do so. I can fall back on a computer that I have which runs Office. It sounds like you have more than one computer, so you can have a backup plan.

-Hardware support is critical. If you need to videoconference and it turns out that your webcam doesn’t have a linux driver, then you may be hosed. Research and test on the front-end so that you don’t find yourself in an embarrassing situation of your own making.

-Learning curves cost money. If you’re using an entirely new set of user software AND you’re hopping between different distributions to find the version of linux that works for you, you’ll waste a LOT of time that you could be using to generate billable work.

tun,

My first thought was “buy linux compatible hardwares” - laptop and printer.

According to your reply, paper printing is no longer a big deal.

For the document, I thought Microsoft 365 will do.

Video codecs are available but some distro choose not to include it by default.

Most of the time linux is no go for professionals with locked-in softwares such as Adobe graphics design suite, AutoCAD, etc.

bismuthbob,
@bismuthbob@sopuli.xyz avatar

Paper printing is no big deal if you stick carefully to your first thought about linux-compatible hardware.

I use Brother laser printers whenever I need a hard copy. That brand tends to work well with linux, but research the model number in conjunction with the distribution that you’re using before you purchase.

Your point about locked in software is very important. Even in my own industry, some of my earlier jobs relied on custom Windows software for billing, dictation, document creation, and more. A lot of former nonstarters have been pushed to the cloud, but there are still challenges.

warmaster, (edited )

Get Office 365 subscriptions to use MS Office via web browser.

End of story regarding office apps.

Regarding the rest of the OS, get Ventoy and load it with a bunch of distros and test drive them to see which one you like the most.

Some suggestions to start with:

  • Fedora
  • Ubuntu
  • OpenSUSE

All these have their enterprise variants which could come in handy in the event you need official support when your company takes off.

I personally use Arch on my desktop PCs, but if I couldn’t… I would use Fedora or a Fedora based distro.

I use Fedora Server on my homelab.

I chose these because I want the latest drivers for my GPUs, gaming peripherals, and display related improvements (Wayland, Mesa, etc.).

Pantherina, (edited )

As a lawyer you should always use Linux.

Have a LUKS encrypted hard drive.

Video formats? There literally are VLC, ffmpeg and MPV. Every normal format works on every Distro.

Get most apps from Flathub.org, use any Distro you want but I recommend Fedora Kinoite.

Word documents for sure, PDF editing actually too. PDF editing is cursed in itself, but Okular + PDF arranger + Firefox + sometimes GIMP (for actually censoring) work.

Have a look at Stirling PDF, a project combining all of these effords. Its not yet a fully graphical desktop app but this command will work on Fedora Kinoite:


<span style="color:#323232;">podman run -d 
</span><span style="color:#323232;">  -p 8080:8080 
</span><span style="color:#323232;">  -v /location/of/trainingData:/usr/share/tesseract-ocr/4.00/tessdata 
</span><span style="color:#323232;">  frooodle/s-pdf:latest
</span>

Then you can use StirlingPDF in your browser by opening localhost:8080

Use any modern Linux Distro and stay away from outdated Desktops like Mint (Cinnamon), XFCE, Budgie, Mate etc.

Rustmilian,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

MPV* you have VLC twice.

Pantherina,

Hahah lol was tired.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • linux@lemmy.ml
  • localhost
  • All magazines
    •
    Loading…
    Loading the web debug toolbar…
    Attempt #