I had a huge problem with Arch because of the rolling release deal. I just can’t handle the responsibility of updating packages every single day, even with automation.
When I install an operating system, I want it to just work, and I want their repositories to have lots and lots of software. Most distros do this, but none do it as well as one of the major Debian-family distros like Ubuntu or Mint. Fedora is quite nice as well, and I could probably daily drive it without issue, I just see no reason to change over to it since Ubuntu has me totally covered. And it is basically like this for me with every other distro: I have to think, “why would I switch? What benefit would it provide me over what I have right now.” The answer is always “nothing important,” so I stick with Ubuntu.
I considered using Guix because its package manager is truly a revolutionary new technology. But using it as a package manager, I can see a lot of the packages and default configurations just aren’t quite to the point of “just works” yet. Still, I hope someday to switch to Guix as my daily driver.
Every day is something of an exaggeration, but if you don’t keep a rolling release up-to-date regularly (like once a week), packages start to break. And this gets to be a problem, especially if I don’t keep a computer always on, or if I keep postponing updates because my laptop is not connected to the Internet at the schedule time. There are a dozens reasons why I miss regular updates, but the point is, it should not bork my system if I do miss updates for a while.
if you don’t keep a rolling release up-to-date regularly (like once a week), packages start to break.
Those are packaging bugs then. With proper packaging everything updates seamslessly. Outside of SteamOS I’m not a user of Arch-derived distributions but I am a user of openSUSE TW which is a rolling release and I have one old notebook for a specific task I need to do maybe twice a year and updating was never a problem and installing a package triggers updating all affected dependencies.
Yeah, I have definitely run across lots of Arch packaging bugs. They seem to give up making packages backward compatible after some length of time, that or their testing procedures are not as thorough as that of openSUSE. It is understandable, making a rolling release backward compatible for long periods of time can be fairly challenging. Although Nix OS and Guix OS have solved this problem.
Why do you think you need to update packages on Arch every single day?
It was just a bit of hyperbole regarding the amount of mental effort it takes to keep your system up to date, I don’t actually mean every single day. I mean if you don’t keep Arch up-to-date on a regular basis, packages tend to break, and then you need to re-install the OS or jump through a few hoops to repair the broken packages and their dependencies. Diligent regular updates is not a terrible mental burden, but a burden none-the-less, so using point release OS like Mint or Ubuntu are just easier.
I get it. It does have a learning curve. This being said, I would argue that without selinux Linux can’t really be meaningfully secure. It’s worth learning. Seljnux exits elsewhere too. I deploy Debian with selinux and it works well there as well.
The problem with SELinux is that everyone rushed to push it out, alongside packages affected by it without support for it. So it was a crapshoot whether or not you’d have something working each time. That is better now, but was initially a colossal pain in the ass for about five years or so.
Fair. But audit2allow makes it really easy to add support for apps without policies. For custom in-house apps I use this to spit out some nice policies that can be rolled out.
What put me off selinux is that the officially documented way of generating a new policy is to run a service unconfined, and then generating the policy from its behaviour. This is backwards on so many levels… In contrast policy-based admission control in kubernetes is a delight to use, and creating new policies is actually doable outside of a lab.
You could preemptively write the policy if you know the context and policies you want to apply. I just don’t think it’s worth the time when you can generate a policy with two commands.
Manjaro. I had previously already used Antergos and Ubuntu, but after Antergos stopped I needed something like it. So I installed Manjaro in my secondary PC (with old components). I constantly got into trouble with the manual kernel version selection thingy. I was used to kernel updates being part of the normal update process, and suddenly I had to manually pick the new one. I constantly ran into incompatibility issues with older or newer kernels, vague update deadlocks where I couldn’t update things because they depended in each other, and I absolutely hated having to use a separate program for updating the kernel. Now the PC runs Fedora and I’m liking that a lot more so far…
Manjaro ships with a LTS kernel, which is marked “recommended” in the kernel selection tool. By default you don’t have to do anything, don’t ever need to use the kernel selection, and you won’t experience any problems, it works like any other distro.
The issues you described are caused by selecting one of the non-recommended kernel versions. It’s assumed you know what you’re doing if you do that.
Exactly I really don’t get the argument there. Manjaro’s handling of kernel selection is brilliant. Multiple LTS kernels, a recommended one, bleeding hedge and experimental ones. There’s something for everyone and it’s super easy to use.
It’s not so much an argument, it’s my personal experience. My experience was just not great. Maybe I did something wrong, but I’ve had a way better experience with Antergos, Arch, Fedora, and Ubuntu.
Idk what was wrong then, but I constantly had issues with packages being out of date due to the kernel and not wanting to update. Dependencies were constantly a mess. I’d rather just have normal Arch or Antergos/Endeavor
I used Ubuntu for a few years, and always felt that it works well and was super easy to set up. But it also seemed to use a lot of disk space. This was of course not ubuntu‘s fault, but my inexperience. But I never had to look under the hood, so I didn’t, and I ended up installing a bunch pf bloat, some of which ended up causing minor issues eventually.
I decided to try arch, and get more into configuration and learning linux. It was quite a ride, and I am happy to have gone through with it. I’m still learning, but I have so much more knowledge & control over what the PC does and how it does it. I also have a lot more room for games and such.
Never tried regular Arch after trying Black Arch, so not sure if they’re the same feel, but after realizing the work it would take just to be given the capability to resize windows in the UI instead of just coming with drag and resize out of the box, Black Arch was a huge no go for me… Which kept me from wanting to touch regular Arch, lol. That being said, I go nope to Ubuntu the most. Gentoo is my favorite and is what my server has been running for the past decade without any kind of issue, but for laptop and daily use, I use Mint. Been on that one for about a decade now too… Used to use Peppermint (that still a thing?) and Suse the most before those.
I find this reply kind of confusing, you’re comfortable with Gentoo on a server but installing a DE with pacman was too much? Black arch slim comes with xfce, that should definitely allow you to resize windows lol.
My comment on arch is just related to the use of black arch for a regular desktop or laptop machine, not my server (no desktop environment for the server). Was mostly trying it to compare it with Kali, actually.
Black arch does come with xfce by default indeed, but resizing windows isn’t available right away. At least it wasn’t when I tried it a couple of years ago. It required changing a bunch of configurations manually for whatever reason.
Oh I see… I haven’t used black arch personally, that seems so strange they’d go out of their way to disable that. For whatever is worth vanilla Arch + Xfce + i3 has been super great for my desktop, really brought new life to the hardware
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