I don’t eat a lot of meat, but after hearing arguments like these from vegetarians and vegans, I gave up on not eating meat.
Too expensive to eat vegan and I got really fucking tired of being called fucking stupid for buying meat free alternatives. It’s not worth the effort in the end.
vegan food isn’t expensive. artificial meat replacements are expensive, because you’re paying someone to chemically torture plants until they vaguely remind you of animals. lentils, beans, and other awesome-tasting protein sources are dirt cheap. vegan-first dishes are great and really cheap.
This is not arrogance it’s playful language for humorous effect. The real reason to not eat fake meat is that it usually doesn’t taste very good no matter how you prepare it, whereas traditional vegan food can be amazing
Ignoring the obvious joke you missed. If someone being a little rude is enough to make you completely give up on your ethical/moral stance, you need to grow a spine dude .
If a gay person is an ass to me i dont decide to become homophobic and blame it on them.
I won’t go near the comparison to one’s sexual preference, to another voluntary dietary habits.
But, you’re not wrong. If this was something that was super important to me and life affecting, then you are completely right.
Now, as someone who is just trying to not eat meat for personal and whatever reasons, that’s not how you get people into your cause. I am not bound to it, and the perception of the community is something i get to have liberty with.
How about “well, it’s not an animal. not bad”. Not being me with my kid hearing that her favorite burger patty (the impossible one) is a waste of money and an embarrassment to the real vegans in the middle of the safeway by a random asshole stranger, who had the after thought to explain how tofu is better totally not noticing that his very life is in danger.
Oh yes the voluntary dietary habit of taking a sentient being's life against its will because it's tasty and I can't be bothered to learn how to cook properly using plants.
In fairness, it’s really easy to act like a badass in front of…am I reading that right, some hypothetical guy in Costco who told his daughter she’s not a real vegan?
I didn’t act or anything. I just stood there much like here watching the entitled dietary moron go off.
But I was really annoyed so like the imaginary cool vegan, it was more contexts. But good notes. It was Safeway. No wonder yall are not taken seriously.
Once again, because it’s come up so many times in this thread, not at all vegan, definitely omnivorous, just not someone who assumes their membership in the majority defines them as a victim unlike the coward Wage_slave@lemmy.ml
It wasn’t just the vegan thing though. My kid is autistic and absolutely wouldn’t eat anything other than what she put on her list. Like to the point we had to get her help.
I guess that’s something I shouldn’t have left out. It just wasn’t something that even crossed my mind as I made the comment.
It’s interesting that while you were making this up you couldn’t decide whether your kid was vegetarian or vegan. You’d think with cooking two separate meals every night you’d be familiar with the difference.
It's absolutely trivial to cook meals vegan or vegetarian and simply add meat separately at the end, or not add it at all. What you're describing is just piss-poor meal planning and has nothing to do with the cost of vegetables.
Or you were just buying every prepackaged bit of vegan food in the store.
Which is utterly fucking irrelevant to the idiot-tier statement that somehow vegans/vegetarians don't get enough protein.
Only absolute morons who tie their entire identity to eating meat think that, usually losers that hang out in the comments sections of YouTube channels with names like "Carnivoracious" or "BeardMeat" or "Beardivore" or "MeatyBeardMan." "I eat meat, I have beard, this is my personality, I have nine pounds of undigested meat in my colon and I haven't shit in a week."
"Diet For a Small Planet, however, unfortunately helped create a persistent myth that vegetarians and vegans faced severe challenges when it comes to getting enough protein. Over the next few decades, multiple studies coupled with the lack of vegans dropping dead from acute protein deficiency extinguished that hysteria."
It takes like .2 seconds to verify if your sincerely held religious belief is utter nonsense or not.
No it definitely is a thing, lot of exvegans who find themselves suddenly going very sick until they try meat again and it’s the most delicious cure they’ve ever had
How many people called you stupid for buying meat free alternatives? I largely do not eat meat and I can count on one hand the number of times it has been mentioned in the past decade. It’s also only comparatively expensive because meat is so subsidized.
I mostly do not eat meat because it is fucking terrible for the environment.
Middle of a Safeway once, in line at McDonald’s my ex was called a poser for ordering the veggie burger by someone in line at a fucking McDonald’s (dont care if youre just there for the fries), online community of course adds to it because, well yeah, here we are.
Entitled people have a way of announcing and decrying those below them. Like morons who think Android phones are for the poor.
Meat is pretty much the most expensive protein source. You can get tofu for like 1/5 the price of meat. The other guy summed it up well (although with some sarcasm) that eating vegan is only expensive when you try to replicate the meat. Just eat tofu and you’ll be healthier and richer :)
I got really fucking tired of being called fucking stupid for buying meat free alternatives.
Sorry that you met condescending assholes. Some people just have the urge to feel superior over others for absolutely silly reasons. The rise of meat alternatives is one of the few things that make me optimistic for the future, along with renewable energy, electric cars and heat pumps. Factory farms are so much worse for the environment and animals, of course we should embrace alternatives to the worst option.
Prices also go down with more competition. There basically wasn’t any market for meat alternatives 10 years ago, now it’s growing quite fast. In 5 years, many of them will likely be cheaper than meat.
I saw a middle-eastern cookbook and was reminded of how vegetarian food is pretty solid everywhere outside of many parts of the Anglosphere. Even then, the stuff is there but it’s not really given the thought it deserves.
I have a very, very old italian recipe book that my mom used when she was younger. I’m talking about 1980 edition. The book is about 200 recipes, 200 different names and a lot of different types of pasta. The last page, there’s this one, single recipe, simply called “The vegetarian recipe” and that’s all. Made me laugh and think that today would never be allowed to be printed this way.
Welcome to the culture wars. How am I supposed to demonstrate my sigmoid male prowess to fertile young females, if I’m eating a plate of seasoned vegetable mush?
Whereas if it appears to be a juicy slab of meat, I can maintain the veneer of my fragile masculinity. And who knows, maybe one of those cute progressive females will open her legs to me if I appear to care about animals.
Or maybe different cultures just have different palettes and people want to eat food that tastes like what they grew up eating? Maybe we could just… Enjoy both approaches to food? Outside of this meme do you even know with confidence that there aren’t Indians, a country of almost 1.5 billion people, 5x the size of the us, trying to recreate common meat dishes in a vegan way?
Friend, you just complained about the culture war, right before blatantly partaking in it in a wildly nonsensical way.
we ate burgers with i think corn-based patties once. actually tasted better than a burger imo. definetely a carnivore, but the vegans sure have some dope alternatives.
100% serious. On the average our grocery stores are better with far more access to food choices. I can pick out essentially any type of fruit or veggie year round and have access to fresh food from across the planet.
Not your thing? Well, I’m my small city (.5mil) I have access to 3 farmers markets which will get me fresh local veggies and meat.
Y’all are on crack if you think you have access to better food in the EU or Asia.
You’ll find that 95% of towns in the US will have access to fantastic food year round.
How prevalent is veganism in India? Whenever I look at Indian food, it’s butter this and milk that. Sure, there are some very good vegan choices, but it seems to me that Indians love their dairy.
Veganism is actually a fairly new phenomenon in general, a lot of Jains in particular have adopted it. But vegetarianism in India dates back over a thousand years BCE , so yeah, they’ve got a bit of a head start.
Except for the part where they’re kept in small cages or “free range” in dirty cramped pens. Luckily it’s easier to get eggs from chickens raised ethically than meats. You just gotta fork over a few extra bucks or get the hookup at a farmer’s market
I never said they were? I’m not even a vegetarian stop being so sensitive. I don’t care for making anything suffer when I can still have eggs without the suffering. It’s that simple. If you’ve based too much of your personality on macho meathead bullshit then do you boo. I’m sure that’s a great replacement for an actual personality.
We drive 10mph around here because the damn chickens like to “free range” in the road. Those are pretty large pens, the size of a damn town.
The USDA needs to get their pockets out of big ag’s hands. Free Range should be Free-Fucking-Range. I get to know the chicken I eat got to run wild 16 hours every day, but many people do not.
Yeah the fuckery that they pull when they list things as grass fed and free range is vile. Then they make a profit on top of it because they barely change anything but charge premium prices for the fancy label.
I’m lucky to have a beef farm in my state that ships locally and actually follows the spirit of grass fed up to grass finished in sprawling pastures. They also do individual slaughter. For eggs we’ve got a few locals that bring them to the farmers markets on Sundays. Beef is like a once a week thing for us these days and it’s usually just ground beef. Chicken and fish are our biggest sources of protein now. I don’t really do pork anymore. Can’t find any that’s remotely close to ethically sourced which is abysmal considering how intelligent pigs are. So I just stopped buying it.
Also, and I’m fully aware this could just be some kinda subconscious bias, but I swear the meat and eggs taste SO much better than the stuff from the grocery. Eggs especially. The yolks are so vibrant and hardly break when being fried. Even the shells seem stronger and less likely to shatter into tiny annoying bits.
Here’s my reason for trying to eat a little more beef than that. If I’m giving “lives lost” any value, you can’t beat cows for calories per animal death. It beats a lot of plant-based foods. And I do have local beef, though it is not fully sustained like local chicken is… which is why I eat more chicken and seafood as well. Not to mention, even though beef around me can be ecologically sustainable, it will not remain that way if too many people eat it because it needs to be supplemented by import. So some beef = good. More beef = less good.
We actually have some ethically sourced local pork, too. I guess it’s nice living in a farming area of my state, despite not living in a farming-state. The butcher’s pork section is always small, but he’s got some.
Also, and I’m fully aware this could just be some kinda subconscious bias, but I swear the meat and eggs taste SO much better than the stuff from the grocery
Not really a subconscious bias. They are fresher, and preservation techniques often have not been started on them. If you eat an egg that has never been refrigerated, of course it’s fresher. (or the opposite, lol)
The seafood my family fishes is right off a boat, generally only a couple hours harvested. After the fishermens’ cut, the best stuff goes to a couple local restaurants and seafood markets, and the rest are frozen and shipped. Yes, you can taste the difference. I never liked scallops until I tasted “the real thing” off a boat.
I would say about 30% of my Indian coworkers over the years have been vegan.
I think the challenge is that, unlike a lot of Western vegans, they don’t go out of their way to talk about it. My second job, I knew day 1 about the white girl who was vegan. It took me 2 years to learn that 4 of my Indian coworkers were vegan since birth. And I only learned it because they learned I was getting into Indian food so they all started bringing stuff in for me to try. Entire meals. Incredible meals. I miss that job, lol.
My family loves to announce to the world that I don’t drink milk. It’s annoying. Idk they’re probably in shock or something that someone would choose not to abuse cows. (They’re vegetarians, I’m vegan)
which would be fine if it were just a straight comparison but it starts bleating about chemicals and preservatives and it’s a bit too purity politicking for my tastes.
This is what people don’t get, if you’ve been veggie for years then you don’t need meat substitutes, these products are for normies trying to cut back or give up while they break the cultural training.
I’ve been vegetarian for… more than a decade? I love meat substitutes and generally prefer having the substitute present in meals (either as the main thing, like a burger, or as an inclusion). I do agree that meat substitutes are a fantastic way of reducing meat consumption for meat-eaters, but that doesn’t mean you need to do away with it completely once you’re in ‘full veg’ mode
Maybe. While I do sometime choose the plant-based meat, thinking of it as a substitute was my initial reluctance to try vegetarian food. Back then, I ridiculed the idea of a “veggie burger”, but really liked grilling a “black bean patty”. Did you realize Mac and Cheese can be vegetarian? “Greek veggie dip” is horrible, but I love hummus. I always loved various potatoes, but it was quite a revelation that you could spice them up and use them as a meal. My latest infatuation is Halloumi or Paneer - don’t ever call a nice grilling cheese a substitute for anything.
At least for me, it is easier to choose foods for their own value, rather than suffer with a substitute, r a variation “without”. I’m not a vegetarian and have no interest in it, but I will choose what looks good to me at any given time, on its own merits
One of these cultures has normalised vegan and vegetarianism for centuries, the other is trying to wean a meat-obsessed population
As someone who works in a grocery store, the worst fucking people are the ones who go up to the deli counter and yell at the clerks, demanding the "bloodiest* roast beef they’ve got. That or the spiciest turkey, or whatever.
Dudes who’s entire sense of self is invested in eating meat. Easily the most annoying kind of guy I encounter in my daily life.
That and the ‘for every animal you don’t eat i’m gonna eat THREE!’ Yay well done so macho you get threatened by what another person eats fucking yay for you sir gold star.
Dudes who’s entire sense of self is invested in eating meat
This might sound silly. But maybe they enjoy the taste of rare roast beef? Before this “make meat seem like it’s not dead animal” trend, the rule used to be anything over medium was overcooked for most meats. For some odd reason (actually, not odd. freaking additives) a lot of roast beef is sold medium-well. Which is tasteless enough to make someone go vegan!
I don’t understand “yell at the clerks”. I’ve never seen that. But I agree it’s rude. Just **not **because they are buying meat.
I’m vegan for a while now and live in Europe. In the past, vegan options were creative and often good and now it’s this fake meat all over. I wish I lived closer to India then to America
What I wanted to say is that I like the Indian way according to the meme better than the American and my home country is tending towards the American. I wanted to hint to that by complaining about it in the first part
Most veg Indian food has dairy added tho. Avoiding ghee is like going through an obstacle course of nice aunties and uncles trying to feed you. And don’t even get me started on curd.
Indian vegans also often use substitutes. I’m for vegan food unity: don’t harm and exploit animals and I support you.
How is the dairy industry in India? I would assume it is nowhere near as cruel as it is in the West, where sadistic practices are incorporated at every stage of the process in the name of efficiency.
It depends. India does have some factory farms, mainly for beef. But many dairy cattle are kept by small farmers for whom the milk and meat are a supplement to whatever plants they grow. And these farmers usually belong to dairy co-operative societies like Amul, which do quality control and ensure that the animals are not abused too much. Also some Indian states ban or heavily restrict the slaughter of cattle (although in practise this just leads to them being abandoned or disappearing into the black market).
It’s basically the same. The driving factor of mass death in the dairy industry is that to make cows produce milk they’ve gotta get pregnant and calf, so you end up with a bunch of cows that are too old to produce enough milk for market and a big of calves that won’t produce milk, ever.
In the West, those “extra”, “non-productive” animals get killed (the dairy industry is the meat industry). In India, this is still often the case as not everyone is veg and not everyone who’s non-veg avoids beef. But there are enough people that refuse beef for there to be an impetus to follow a “traditional” alternative: you kick the animal out of the dairy for it to fend for itself. In reality, they tend to just starve to death over a long period of time.
For there to be dairy without a culling there would need to be like 30 pet cows for every 1 dairy cow. Assuming the cost of raising the cow is what people pay for, that would mean milk costing 10X more.
sadness My dumb ass assuming India’s culture of reverence for cows would lead to slightly better treatment for them but forgetting that capitalism will always demand the most profitable option.
Here’s my thing about meat: I’ll switch away from meat if you make it taste good. It doesn’t have to pretend to be meat, as long as it tastes good, that’s all I care about. I will still eat the occasional burger or bbq, but if you can find me vegetarian or vegan recipes that make me as happy as bbq does, I’ll try it.
It’s less surprising when you realize that stuff that processed almost might as well have been constructed from raw hydrocarbons. It’s like some NileRed “turning paint thinner into cherry soda”-level shit.
I said this above as a reply to another comment, but I do feel there are a lot of interesting dishes around the world that would be loved almost universally and I wish they would become universally accessible too
For bacon bits, they’re talking about the drid stuff in the plastic cans - “Bacos” and similar. They’re usually soy based with artificial flavor - probably for longer/safer shelf life
Those fake bacon bits that are bright red and crunchy that people put on their salads and such are made from soy. The real stuff that is chewy is def still pork.
Not a vegan, but a vegetarian. This is why I love Indian food. When food is made from the beginning to not include meat products, it doesn’t feel like it’s ‘missing’ anything.
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