If it makes you feel any better getting older means you learn to see these things coming from a mile away. The best games are (generally) the ones you learn about from word of mouth
And when you’re older you have no time to game. So, you’re a few years behind. By the time they get to you, they’re either hashed out and good or have fallen out of popularity.
Or you could be like me and still play games from the 90s.
Well I think the whole performance thing have been blown waaaay out of proportion by a vocal few. I have a relatively old pc with an rx580 8gb vram and the game’s been running fine for me. Obviously it needs some patches, but people have been saying it’s the second coming of ksp2, and that’s simply bullshit
Don't downplay peoples valid concerns, we should strive for better performance in any game. Just because some people can put up with low framerates doesn't mean others should have to. I think 120fps at 1080p should be absolute minimum performance we should accept out of a game given the power of PCs these days.
Don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t want to downplay people’s experiences and performance issues ARE concerning, and I personally hold the belief that a company is responsible for the quality of the product they bring to market and ultimately a fault in their own processes if they couldn’t. BUT it doesn’t take away that the issue has been overblown. It simply, given the game’s circumstances, shouldn’t be getting the hate it’s currently harbouring. It seems to me that the internet’s found the new shiny thing to hate on, and the human psyche simply can’t resist just a smidge more of rage
Perhaps that is the case, but it also swings in the opposite direction of games being overpraised when there are glaring issues - see BG3. Bad press usually causes change a lot faster though and I find it refreshing when people actually leave negative reviews with their concerns. Although I agree there are the people who take it too far and just jump on a hate bandwagon, which ruins actual criticisms.
Act 3 - so many bugs, inconsistencies, crashes. The issues leak into the first two acts aswell, but act 3 is a real mess. The game really struggles to keep up with itself by that point.
Oh shit I haven’t experienced that personally but I’m sorry that you are! I did lower the graphics a little in the city since there’s so much more going on, maybe that’s made it more stable for me.
and the heart of the problem. Gamers have forgotten that games are tradeoffs. Counter Strike has high FPS and the expense is lower detail. Cities opts for higher detail and fidelity over having higher FPS. Of course studios would love to give every game 120FPS at 4K ultra, they didn’t just decide not to do that. Optimization and squeezing a few more frames per second is tedious work. It’s not some switch in the engine they forgot to flip. It requires pouring over millions of lines of code, deciding to create this class instance later, to move this memory allocation to another place, to deciding what to cut out to make it just a smidge faster.
I stand by my other comments. Gamers have become entitled that their systems should run brand new games at perfect ultra settings. That’s not how it ever worked. Brand new systems are out of date the moment you buy it. The only way to guarantee anything to run at perfect ultra for every game is to wait 5 years after it released on hardware that just came out.
This is so incorrect though. Nobody is expecting every game to run on every system at 4K@120Hz. CS has more fidelity and higher framerate than Cities, Rainbow Six Siege has even more fidelity and even more framerate than the both of them (talking like 600+ fps). Cities bottleneck should be CPU as it was in the first game. It should run very well to begin with and slow down the bigger and bigger the city gets, but that's not the case, it runs like ass from the get go. They built it from scratch, which is the best time to make sure it is performant during development, but in most cases devs seem to rush for feature complete instead, especially in the current environment of consumers accepting half-baked games.
It's not entitlement to expect more and it makes no sense to defend lackluster performance in games, if you don't care then just carry on enjoying it and let others ask for better. Again 1080p@120Hz is hardly an ask these days, any GPU/CPU from the last 8 years can handle that shit perfectly fine, hell even mobiles can run that now.
Games should be built to run well on today's hardware, not built to let future hardware take over. Incentivizing upgrades is just going to create more e-waste.
It is though. You’re comparing apples to oranges - you can’t compare an FPS to a top down strategy. Even Cities 1 never had a great framerate, even 8 years later on modern hardware it still chugs, and it doesn’t have nearly the fidelity that Cities 2 has. The only reason the GPU is the bottleneck is because of the fidelity. If you turn down the graphics settings to Cities 1 level, guess what, the CPU becomes the bottleneck again.
For another example, Age of Empires 4 locks the zoom level because they couldn’t handle showing too much on screen. You just can’t demand the same rates as an FPS. Completely different parameters. You’re expecting an M1 abrams tank to have the agility of a honda accord and the speed of a masarati, when you really needed something something that could seat 20 people.
You brought fidelity and Counter Strike up. Cities Skylines 2 is not exactly an 'impressive' game to look at, a more stylised approach is better for this type of game, it doesn't need to look real and you spend hardly any time zoomed in anyway to notice fine details. Just looking at graphics the game performs horrendously for what it looks like. I don't think Cities Skylines was a bad looking game and I don't think Cities Skylines 2 trading off more performance for not a big leap in 'fidelity' is worth it. I think Cities Skylines looks better and more refined myself honestly, the art style fit it really well.
I can demand whatever performance I want? From FPS I expect higher than 120 even, it's just what is better for that game. For builders 120 as a baseline minimum is not a big ask and I would still expect it drop into the 90s and 60s once you build your city/whatever out. If you are fine stuck at 60fps or lower with all your games then congratulations, but I expect more from games these days that aren't exactly pushing the bar in other areas. I don't think graphics make a game, but games have been at a point where they don't need to look any better for years now, so performance should be the focus.
It is not like we want low framerates, it is just that we don’t want to pay for the hardware to run those when regular framerate is more than enough.
60 fps is plenty for every game genre. You only need more if you are a professional gamer, or can splash the cash because you play all night every night.
I don’t want to pay for the hardware either. I have an old 750 Ti, and you would be surprised how many (not new) games are running perfectly fine on it. Amount them those like the last deus ex games. I don’t remember the framerate I had, but neither do I remember it as an unplayable laggy mess.
When I read that CS2 barely manages to run on a 2060 or some other powerhouse (in my eyes at least, but honestly for some reason I have the impression that 20xx is not much of a leap from let’s say a 1080 Ti) I can’t think anything else but that the game is a totally wasteful garbage technically.
60fps is not plenty. You have never used higher have you? Low-end hardware these days is ridiculously powerful compared to what it used to be. Don't let poor optimisation in games condition you to thinking otherwise, they could all be running a lot better.
Anything with lots of camera panning is an objectively nicer experience at 120fps or higher.
Agree. I’m several hours in and I’m honestly loving it. Face it gamers, y’all just like to hate things, it’s fun to be in the “in crowd” who knows better than everyone else to not buy something. Misery loves company.
I think the performance issue is not at all overblown, but the complaints about stripped features are overblown. The game is more complex than the original, but it does run like dogcrap right now.
Honestly the endgame was pretty fun as well on face value if a bit barren, it’s the midgame that was super disappointing to me. Overall it’s a decent game imo, it just set expectations way too high and couldn’t deliver
In my experience delays just means the crunch time is extended.
Anyone thinking this release was reputation destroying is just fickle and shouldn't be taken seriously
Delaying also means that you are burning cash with zero income. You can only borrow money on worse and worse terms, and if there is an actual prime rate hike whoa boy are you pooched.
I’ve been a fan of the series for a very long time. Since the first game. But the overkill that released PD:TH isn’t the overkill of today. They are extremely incompetent and replaced by fresh blood. PD3 is going to be a mess and I will not be surprised if they go back to releasing PD2 DLCs again.
Me and X: Rebirth. Looking forward to it for years and it comes out as an abomination.
5 years later I pick up the game on a deep deep sale and I try to dock and the physics gets screwy and immediately refund it. This was after 4 expansions and several patches to make it version 4.something.
Also Payday 3. Though the server issues have been fixed.
There are 10 times more daily players in pd2 than in pd3, so the servers arent overstressed anymore. (Also means players don’t want to play pd3 even when it works)
Cities skyline 2 performance is pretty bad from the stream I was watching. HOWEVER according to this review by Wal Der Qual if you set the dynamic resolution to "constant" you will get an FPS boost. It helped the gal on the stream I was watching anyhow. I cant speak for their other suggestions as they didnt get tried on the stream.
Mythbusters is a great thing that we would all love to experience again in another medium, but that just wasn’t going to happen. It’s hard to even point to an existing good game that has the mechanics that you’d want from a Mythbusters. They could have gone Factorio, or an Infinifactory, but a goal of “maximize this” or “build this intended output” still doesn’t capture the scientific intent of extracting some tiny nugget of truth from a cold unfeeling universe. Straitjacketing the whole process into something scripted, or throwing a sandbox at the player and walking away, are about the only two approaches that a game could do.
The myths all have different physics and some have some weird phenomena so coding a comprehensive physics simulation will all the scripts to trigger the mythical event when certain conditions are right would be expensive.
Some of the settings there are absolute killers. Volumetric coulds is nuts. The game is 90% staring at the ground, and I lose 10+ fps with that. Ditto for transparent reflections, and the settings for global illumination on high are insane as well.
Sure, once you tune it down selectively it looks like CS1... but it also performs like it.
I really don't understand some of the choices they made here, either in the way the visuals work, the way the default settings work or the way they communicated it. If they hadn't come out saying it'd be super heavy and they renamed "high" to "ultra" or had an intermediate setup between medium and high they wouldn't be getting this much crap.
I strongly disagree. The game has massive performance issues and I’m getting 10-20 FPS on the lowest possible settings with my 2080 Super. At that point it looks worse than CS1 and performs worse.
Also the 7 FPS or so on the main menu are ridiculous, unless they’re using my pc to mine crypto in full force.
If they release a complete game for 50€ or 90€, then I expect that shit to be a super smooth experience, even on the minimum recommended specs, which do in fact note a GTX 980 if I recall correctly.
So either get the specs correct, optimise the game properly or get out of the business. I’m a programmer myself and I’d be deeply ashamed if I released software that performs so poorly.
That does sound like a setting is bugged somewhere, or perhaps like one of the problematic settings is not toned down on the low preset. It's hard to tell without testing on the specific hardware. I'm curious enough that I may install it in more devices with less VRAM and mess with the settings just to see what happens.
I do think if they hadn't told people that performance was going to be messed up you'd absolutely assume that's a bug, given that, as you say, it doesn't match their spec notifications.
No one told me before I bought it, and it’s not mentioned on the steam store, see the point of the specs. So I don’t quite understand what you mean with “if they hadn’t told people”, because they sure didn’t unless you’re on that specific social media they did it on.
I’ve watched all those feature videos before and they don’t mention that I shouldn’t get my hopes up.
Anyways I don’t want to occupy your time and argue, in the end I’m just super miffed and disappointed because I had a free weekend for once and was looking forward to binging CS2.
They did put out an announcement that they had "missed their performance targets", and that made news.
It's fair to be disappointed, though. There ARE serious issues here. The game can be made to run acceptably (I went and dug up a comparable card to your 2080 and yeah, it's a 1080p30 game there, but it works). That takes significant fiddling in their advanced menu, and there are significant visual compromises to be made.
At the very least, their default presets should have been tuned differently. That would have been free and prevented the whole "it runs at 20fps on my 4090 on low" frustration with no additional development effort. Not to say that they shouldn't be patching this up a LOT going forward, but they had tools to mitigate that they're not using, which is very confusing.
2080 SUPER here too and while I also get the seriously low framerate in the menu (1 - 2 FPS for me) I also get 30+ FPS in game on medium settings at 4k (on an empty map) so I’m not too sure what’s going on with your PC unless your CPU is the bottleneck. If I go up to high settings then performance does drop down to ~15 FPS.
I agree the performance is not great and I’m absolutely not justifying it, just throwing in my experience too. It’s mostly playable for me and I can probably live with it until it’s hopefully patched.
I was playing all night last night on low (second from bottom) at 1440p and getting constant 60fps with occasional frame hiccups if I zoomed quickly or scrolled way across the map quickly.
I have a 2080 non super.
So there must be something else going on.
On the very lowest settings I was getting around 80-90 fps.
Yeah, a 2080 should be more than capable of handling a game like that, badly optimized or not. I’ve seen people report running the game much better with way worse cards.
However all the people I see complaining here of terrible performance don’t mention which CPU they have, when it was already the bottleneck in C:S 1… And the kind of people who don’t think the CPU is relevant information probably aren’t the kind to use a modern, top-of-the-line CPU.
I’ll still wait until the patches roll in before buying it, but I’m also not going to trust complaints from players who don’t even know which CPU they are using when playing a CPU-bound game.
I’ve the same GPU but way older CPU (3900X) and could play for 3h without issues yesterday. I noticed that the game is using multithreading way better than C:S 1. All cores of my CPU were used equally which made me think that the technical foundation seems to be solid, just too demanding for the average gaming PC. I’m on openSUSE btw
I've played some action games in the teens and was fine with it. Maybe lower frame rate at low resolution (1080) isn't as apparent as the high 4K, but I've never understood why people can't play with frame rates still far faster than film (if it's truly refreshing the frames completely and not ripping the picture of course). I suppose this argument goes the same direction as the vinyl/CD one, with both opinions dead sure they're right.
If the game is handling variations of frame rates during play badly, that's a different story. The goal is for the player to not realize there's a change and stay focused on the game.
I started out playing Doom on a 386, in a tiny tiny viewport, and until recently my hardware was apways behind the curve. I remember playing Oblivion at 640 x 380. And enjoying foggy weather in San Andreas because the reduced draw distance made my fps a lot better.
Over the years I’ve trained my brain to do amazing real time upsacaling, anti-aliasing, hell, even frame generation. nVidia has nothing on the neural network in my head.
But not everyone has this experience and smooth FPS is always better, even if I can handle teerible performance if the game is any good.
simple explanation: people get used to their monitors’ frame rate.
if all you’ve been using is a 60Hz display, you won’t notice a difference down to 30-40 fps as much as you would when you’ve been using a 144Hz display.
our brains notice differences much more easily than absolutes, so a larger difference in refresh rate produces a more negative experience.
think about it like this:
The refresh rate influences your cursor movements.
so if a game runs slower than you’re used to, you’ll miss more of your clicks, and you’ll need to compensate by slowing down your movements until you get used to the new refresh rate.
this effect becomes very obvious at very low fps (>20fps). it’s when people start doing super slow movements.
same thing happens when you go from 144Hz down to, say, 40Hz.
Some of the settings are messed up, I think. It definitely can run faster than that by toning down some settings on that hardware. They really should have changed the defaults or straight up removed some visual settings, given what they do to the game. In my experience, the volumetric clouds, reflections and GI presets are all messed up and cost a disproportionate amount of performance when maxed out.
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