Israel-Palestine megathread for the remainder of the weekend

the front page is now like half articles on this currently, so it’s probably time for a megathread because none of us want to keep track of 12 threads on this subject and all the resulting comments. only major subsequent developments (for example, boots on the ground; pronunciations by governments; that sort of stuff) will get their own thread. otherwise please post stuff in here for the time being. any threads not meeting this criteria will be locked and removed. thank you in advance for your cooperation.

pineapplelover,

There was a lemmy post that showed beautiful pictures of Israel and Hamas before the attacks and I can’t seem to find that post.

ram,
@ram@bookwormstory.social avatar

Plan to let Canadians and other foreigners leave Gaza at Rafah crossing is cancelled^[^^direct^^]^

Five, (edited )

Engineers for Palestine

A group of engineers advocating for a Free and Liberated Palestine 🇵🇸

Five,

Journalist Rips Palestinian ‘Terrorism’ Narrative to Shreds

Israel has been calling Palestinian fighters “terrorists” to justify its slaughter of Gaza.

Breakthrough News journalist, Eugene Puryear, rips this narrative apart, explaining the long history of oppressed and colonized people being demonized and called terrorists and savage to justify the continued occupation of those people. No different than the Native resistance to American colonization, slave rebellions in the Americas, the Haitian Revolution, Palestinians are resisting Israeli colonialism, not out of bloodlust as the media has portrayed it, but because of decades of land thefts, massacres, second-class citizenship and the denial of the right to return that has persisted for decades.

jarfil,

This seems to be missing the meaning of the word “terrorist”, as in anyone espousing the ideology of instilling fear as a weapon.

Five, (edited )

as in anyone espousing the ideology of instilling fear as a weapon.

I wish that was what the word “terrorist” means.

It has always meant anyone using asymmetric tactics to oppose states or capitalism, both violent and non-violent. If it simply meant using fear as a weapon, then every state that has prisons and police would be terrorist.

The standard usage of the word is so hypocritical that it has become an authoritarian allegiance-signifying pejorative without any deeper meaning.

jarfil,

If it simply meant using fear as a weapon, then every state that has prisons and police would be terrorist.

Well… you said it 🙈

The Oxford definition adds “unlawful” as an extra requirement, but I’d readily call Iran’s morality police “terrorist”, despite being lawful and state sponsored.

Five, (edited )

I agree Iran uses fear to control its citizens, but that’s a pretty facile statement in an English speaking community. How do you feel about Anastasija Kukhta or Mikhail Lazakovich, both convicted of terrorism?

jarfil,

Russia and Belarus also use fear to control their citizens. Setting a place on fire to make the state fear you, definitely can be called terrorism. Asking for sanctions against a state… hm, kind of? Technically, many of the sanctions against Russia are also intended to instill fear, including amongst civilians so they stop supporting their state. Making the EU fear whether it will have enough fuel for the winter, is another case.

There’s a lot of terrorising going around these days.

Five, (edited )

The word is useless for describing violent acts in a meaningful way. It can mean making children traumatized with bombs, or making HOA members afraid their property value will decrease with graffiti, vastly different actions and outcomes.

Tellingly, none of the people who tried to overthrow the government and caused hundreds of senators and congresspeople to retreat in fear have been charged with terrorism.

Meanwhile, people who take videos of animal abuse on farms are terrorists. Eric King is housed at the infamous prison for terrorists ADX Florence, and is referred to the counterterrorism unit for passing out Union cards.

No one who wants to be taken seriously should use the word “terrorist” in a descriptive context. It is not a meaningful word, it’s a noise people make when the word they actually mean is socially inappropriate or politically inopportune.

jarfil,

The word is useless for describing violent acts in a meaningful way

Agree.

It is not a meaningful word

Disagree.

“Terrorism” has a clear meaning, and observing when people use it, or avoid using it, is even more meaningful, as proven by those examples.

PS: I’ve been called a “no freeloading terrorist”, a “TV remote terrorist”, and a “cleaning terrorist”. It may not tell you much about what I did, but it should convey enough meaning about what they were thinking.

Five,

It seems the person who called you a terrorist did not want to be taken seriously :)

Five,

Corporate Media Outlets Are Obscuring Settler Colonialism in Their Gaza Coverage

It is impossible to accurately grasp the current situation without discussing the concept of settler colonialism.

Five,

Israel Is ‘Very Sorry’ For Attack That Killed Journalist Issam Abdallah

The Israeli army has expressed that they are “very sorry” for the death of Lebanese Reuters journalist Issam Abdallah, who was killed in an Israeli shelling at the Lebanon border.

Despite the IDF’s expression of regret, the vehicle Abdallah was in was clearly marked as a media car. The incident occurred while Abdallah and other journalists were covering ongoing clashes at the border.

Lebanon’s caretaker Prime Minister Najib Mikati condemned Israel’s actions, and UN Secretary-General António Guterres expressed condolences, emphasizing the need for journalists to be protected.

luciole,
@luciole@beehaw.org avatar

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas

sdx,

Hamas appears to have set up roadblocks to prevent Gaza residents from evacuating south

hassanmckusick,

The IDF said that just like they said there were a bunch of decapitated babies before they walked that lie back

sdx,

What other purpose do you think the trucks barring the route south could serve?

hassanmckusick,

What?

No that’s exactly what they’re for. But there’s no proof in that tweet of who put them there

sdx,

Who do you think put them there on the coastal road?

hassanmckusick,

I’m sorry is Hamas Aqua-Man now? Wtf does proximity to the ocean have to do with anything?

zerfuffle,

IDF reliability in reporting is at an all-time low.

ram,
@ram@bookwormstory.social avatar

McDonald’s Israel’s giving about 4000 free meals to the Israeli troops, first responders, and citizens^(^^direct^^)^

In response, McDonald’s Saudi Arabia’s donating $533,000 to Gaza relief efforts while denouncing the contributions by McDonald’s Israel.^(^^direct^^)^

ram,
@ram@bookwormstory.social avatar

Three hundred killed, mostly children and women, in Gaza on Saturday - Palestinian health ministry; by Reuters^(^^direct^^)^

sdx,

The USA are deploying a second CSG to the eastern Mediterranean

I have directed the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group (CSG) to begin moving to the Eastern Mediterranean. As part of our effort to deter hostile actions against Israel or any efforts toward widening this war following Hamas’s attack on Israel, the Strike Group includes the guided-missile cruiser USS Philippine Sea (CG 58), guided-missile destroyers USS Gravely (DDG 107) and USS Mason (DDG 87), and Carrier Air Wing 3, with nine aircraft squadrons, and embarked headquarters staffs.

sdx,

According to IDF officers, the ground invasion of the Gaza strip was originally planned for this weekend but has been pushed back a few days due to cloudy weather, the NYT reports

Krauerking,

Oh come on… Who wants to commit war crimes on a dreary day? Let’s get some sun in here so the IDF can really see the blood spray as they shoot civilians.

Five,

Egypt refuses foreigners passage from Gaza except as part of aid agreement

Ahram Online , Saturday 14 Oct 2023

Egyptian authorities have refused the passage of foreign residents of Gaza through the Rafah crossing, except as part of a foreign aid delivery agreement, Al-Qahera News TV reported, citing informed sources.

zerfuffle,

Not surprising, Egypt cannot handle 2 million refugees and once the Palestinians leave, there’s no way Israel is letting them back.

Kwakigra,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    bbbhltz,
    @bbbhltz@beehaw.org avatar

    Maps and Misinformation

    Sorry, not news or updates, but also not worth creating a thread.

    I’ve been seeing lots of maps on Lemmy (mostly in French-speaking communities communities). A number of them look like this:

    standard conflict mapshttps://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/df26b2c6-bf6c-4ce1-8216-75e6092a1f8f.webp

    And then I’ve seen others that look like this (usually labelled as “fact” or “reality”):

    alternative versionshttps://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/089e4f5d-5664-443d-be90-743ff3fa454f.webp

    With the exception of an amazing 3-day event that took place in my school (we had some history professors/researchers come in over 3 days and present us arguments from both sides, then moderate a debate…) I received no education about this, and even if I had it would have been about 20 years ago or more.

    I suspect we have all seen a version of this map before. I can read the Wikipedia, and watch the documentaries, but where should I look to be able to come to a decision on my own regarding these maps? Meaning, is one of them more factual than the other?

    jarfil, (edited )

    All those maps seem to show the same things, in slightly different ways. Basically, “statistics massaging” done with maps.

    The “Fact” one seems to have the most information, as in:

    • Since 1917, the British had control ver the “Mandate of Palestine”, which was neither Israel nor Palestine.
    • Both Jews and Arabs started buying land and settling there, hoping to become the majority population in case a referendum was held when the British retired.
    • Since 1941, the Jewish ideated a plan on how to win a possible referendum by getting One Million of their own in there, presenting it in 1944 as a solution for Holocause refugees, but then realizing that it wouldn’t be enough, that they’d still be missing people and they’d need “Arab refugees”, as in Jews fleeing persecution from Arab countries.
    • In 1947, after WWII, the UN proposed a plan to split the land, which the Arab countries rejected.
    • In 1948 the British planned to GTFO… and just the day before, Israel was formed and declared that the whole land would be theirs.
    • The moment the British left, all the Arab countries attacked Israel which they saw as illegitimate… and with the idea of genociding everyone.
    • However, Israel won that war, and let any Arabs choose whether to stay or GTFO. About 150,000 decided to accept Israeli citizenship, about 700,000 got pushed into Jordan/Palestine.
    • As predicted, a lot of Jews fled Arab countries fearing persecution, which propped up the numbers of Israeli citizens, and further increased the hatred in Arab countries.
    • In 1967, Israel got attacked again, and won again, letting it lay claim to the area previously known as Jordan/Palestine.
    • But people in that area, were mostly Arabs, which didn’t sit well with Israel, who started a colonization process, mainly to cut off the “Palestine enclave” from Jordan… and to intersperse some Jewish population inside, lest the area decoded to hold a referendum and the Arab side win.
    • People in the Gaza area were Arab/Palestinian, and it has open access to the sea, so instead Israel tried to contain those people by walling them off, and telling Egypt to take them… which Egypt doesn’t really want to (we’re in the middle of a worldwide migration crysis, nobody wants millions of immigrants).
    • In 1995, after a lot dirty tactics from bother sides, a Palestinian governance was established… but by then the ex-Jordan area was already decimated by Israeli colonists.

    Misinformation:

    • The “disappearing Palestine” map, starts by claiming all the territory was Palestine, which is false, it was a “Mandatory Palestine” under British control. If you compare it with the first “Fact” map, you’ll notice it claims all the white area as Arab owned, which is false.
    • The UN plan seems to be correct on all the maps, little to manipulate there since it failed anyway.
    • The 1948/1949 maps match what Israel claimed after preemptively declaring itself as a state, getting attacked, and winning.
    • The 1967 maps also show how Israel got control over the whole area, and progressively has been eating away at any possible Arab/Palestinian claim.
    • The 1995 and “NOW” maps show why Israel conceded a Palestinian governance: mainly over territories where people identifying as Palestinians are no longer a majority.

    Personally, I’d say the “Fact” one along the AlJazeera one, paint the most complete picture.

    For sources, check Wikipedia for:

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