In the end, the KIA car company made its cars into subscription models, I really hate this because in the end the car we buy with our own money doesn’t feel like it belongs to us. Should we finally buy an old school car ? so as not to be affected by this subscription models or is there a way to crack the software installed in it ?
Worth noting that these features appear to require your car to be connected to a cellular network. This isn’t the same as BMW charging a fee for heated seats.
They could have just put a SIM card in your car and required you to pay your cell phone provider for a connection.
You don’t need a cellular connection for long range, low bandwidth communication. There are networks such as Lora that don’t require a paid subscription to use.
That’s not what this is though. I have a Hyundai Tuscan that is always connected to a cellular network.
I can always connect with the car with my phone if both the car and phone have internet access. It’s also how the “find my car” feature works. And also I believe software updates (OS and maps).
I meant that they don’t have to use a cellular connection, they could use something else if they wished. LoRa is a two way data connection designed for low bandwidth, long distance. Range can be anywhere from 3-10 miles depending on obstructions/obstacles. There are other similar protocols out there.
That’s farther than a cell phone. A cell phone might get 3 miles maybe more if you have the high ground. It’s a lower frequency and therefore has a longer range. There are both public and private gateways for LoRa. So you can use it even if you don’t own or operate a gateway.
I have something similar for my Subaru but it’s only 4 dollars a month.
It’s a fee I gladly pay to be able to start my car and set the interior climate from my phone. I imagine there’s some cost the access a network to have that functionality and I don’t see a problem paying for it.
The old style that started from a key fob required you to be a lot closer to the vehicle to start it. Right now I start it a few minutes before I leave my building a quarter of a mile away. I could start it from a different country if I wanted to. Needing to be within a few hundred feet would be pretty useless to me.
Very personal opinion of mine, I hate subscription crap. However, I have to agree that, based on what you say, Subaru’s cost is much easier to digest than Hyundai/Kia POS.
Congrats on the new Subaru. I also happily paid for the app using the introduction 3 year plan. Hit me up when you hit year 4 and see the REAL price tag they charge.
What about when a security vulnerability is discovered and your car can be started and unlocked by someone else? That’s one of my concerns with smart features from companies that aren’t primarily tech companies
This is free elsewhere. The fact that you’re okay paying monthly for remote start is hilarious and sad. Probably don’t tell people you’re okay with this.
The tesla app does an INSANE amount of shit no other vehicle app does and its free. But you want to pay monthly to turn your car on 😆
The care package with roadside assistance seems reasonable, though your insurance usually already cover road assistance. The plus package is insane though, they charge that much just to enable remote start via their app?
These features require the cloud, which costs money and uses carbon. If you don’t want them, as many don’t, you shouldn’t have to force the company to price them in at the purchase.
I have a Telluride. I’ve been downgraded to Lite which gives you notifications if you forget to lock your car. But remote start is no longer available.
The way it worked seems to be polling since you could wait around up to a minute for the car to perform a command.
The worst part is the car does not have “local” remote start. I’d have to buy another piece of equipment for that and install it. It’s not available at all on the key fob.
Based on what others in the thread are saying, that’s already covered for free by the key fob. What they’re charging for is doing it through the internet.
I think sooner or later open source cars will be a thing. The problem (well, it’s a good thing) is that cars need to pass inspection to be road ready. But not bike-like vehicles.
This might shock you but cars where open source for years. Did you think those super detailed shop manuals anyone could buy where not intended to be used to work on the car? How about the massive aftermarket and any and all hot rods? This idea that you can’t fuck with you own stuff because its got a computer in it for “safety” is relatively new. Does no one else remember hooking a laptop up to the old ECUs and modifying how the engine works?
You can absolutely fuck with your car and install after market parts. But your car still needs to pass a minimum level of road safety. That’s for the common good. I mean things like having correct lights, crumple zones, brakes, mirrors etc. Now if you want to make a car that runs on used kit hen scraps I totally think you should. We should own. Own devices including their computer system. But I don’t just the average Joe with the parts that keep me safe from them.
Also, this might not shock you, but cars also used to suck in many ways. Not everything from the past is good.
The issue is normalizing the concept that you do not get to control what you paid for. Responsibility has not changed, you can drive your car into a crowded park and would still be guilty of it regardless of how stock it is. If you mod your stuff to be dangerous that would be a crime. In this case would you say that remote starting your car from your phone somehow is a public safety issue? At least if you jailbroke it to work on your own network?
I just Googled and the 2024 Telluride has an MSRP of ~$55,000 in my area, used 2023 models are about ~$45,000.
Looking at an auto loan calculator, that’s between $700 and $900 per month with a 96 month 9% auto loan.
Point is, if you can afford the car you’re probably not worrying about the subscription except on principle. If you can afford the car and have principle concerns you’d probably buy a different car.
And anyone who would pay that much for a car is a gullible fool who doesn’t deserve to keep their money anyway, so that tracks, yeah. What a fucking waste.
I definitely agree, but I went with the option which would have the lowest monthly payment. On the other end local rates have a 36 month loan at 6.75%, but that’s $1,800 per month.
The example is the Telluride though? That’s the whole point. Of course any sane person would pick a cheaper car. For that matter why would you ever buy a brand new car?
I own a Kia. I don’t enjoy the subscription anymore than the next guy but I’m calling bullshit.
The only features behind a pay wall are the ones the app provides. The ones that require an always on internet connection and server infrastructure to maintain.
None of the in-car features are limited. The remote start on my key fob, seat heaters, onboard nav, all work fine without a subscription.
This isn’t like the crap bmw was pulling with the seat heaters.
That’s nice to hear, because my 2021 can’t Remote start without paying for the subscription. Most aggregating part is that if I had gotten the base model I could have added Remote start cheap, but because it came with Remote start already on it, it’s tough shit.
The cost to maintain the servers to send extremely small packets of data to instruct the car for the entire fleet of cars they sold could be less than $100/m.
Indeed; what we need is a jailbreak and a way to operate these systems on our own independent or third party / aftermarket resources. In a REAL competitive market, someone else could set up a server and offer to run these applications (or others!) for a different price. Not that I’m even particularly fond of capitalism myself nor how vulnerable it makes your car to turn it into an IOT device.
To FCA’s credit in that case, they listened to the researchers and implemented several fixes very quickly to address the problem. I wouldn’t put it past many manufacturers to do the hands-over-the-ears “la la la” thing when faced with the same situation.
Are you talking about people breaking in and stealing them? While I agree that was a stupid problem, it’s quite a bit different than a remote hacker taking over your brakes while you drive.
Well, it’s only a small step from there. Still, it’s dumb and it’s hard to trust the cars nowadays. Hell, some of them may be already infected and waiting for order 66.
It’s called working at a towing company, and I already have. I know what those “roadside assistance” firms do from the inside, because we’re the ones who actually do the work when they call, and most of them are trash; you could just skip the middle man and call us directly, but the good ones actually pay decently and are more likely to get our help. Prices become better for individuals when they act as a group who collectively pool resources to subsidize cost on the basis that having a lifeline to fall back on when you don’t need one is better than not having one when you do need one. Technically any handful of people can found a private social club that they all pay ten bucks a month into but don’t always use, and such a club’s warchest will snowball to thousands of dollars while no one is looking. Then when suddenly one person is in trouble, the club swoops in and eats the cost. Socialization of risk. Mutual aid. Wish more people did that.
Those prices on the screenshot are annual, not monthly.
I’ll agree that the services are overpriced, and I know I’m in the wrong place for this sentiment, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a reoccurring fee for something that costs actual money and man-hours to maintain. And I’d rather that fee be a bolt on vs baked into the price of the car (or whatever) so I can choose whether I want to pay it.
All that being said, I don’t pay for the kia online svcs because I think they’re overpriced.
I agree with that. And my point being “Start the movement (of buying older cars instead of new ones) now and change the status quo (of high demand for new cars) while also being able to get older cars that cannot be subscriptionified, because later, even the older cars will be such, that they will have a subsciption, making even 2nd handers to pay the OEM”.
Change the status quo now and stop buying cars. Move to walkable Transit orientated communities where you don’t need one. Stop supporting this shitty industry that’s always been pay to play with gas / electricity, insurance, maintenance, payments.
A jeep from ww1 can still function today with regular care a maintenance, and so can a 5-10 year old car. The point isn’t the age, it’s how you treat the vehicle.
My “dream” car is a V6 Accord from the last year they made them, which I think is 2016. I’d buy one of those right now and just keep repairing it, and hope no one t-bones me. Unfortunately I think my wife is still in the mindset of “we should buy a new car and keep it forever”, which used to be my mindset, too. But she’s not seeing the news on this stuff like I am, either. I suspect if I explained “heated seat subscription” to her (a feature she will not buy a car without) she would object strenuously.
But I don’t like where new cars are going, at all. I don’t like subscriptions, I don’t like the backseat driver nanny features that blare out false alarms, and on the whole I’d rather not have adaptive cruise control (there are times when adaptive cruise is nice, but overall I prefer the old-style cruise control).
We have a 2020 Mazda that I absolutely hate driving; if that is the future of cars, I’m not interested.
I’m hoping my car and our pickup last forever. The other day we took the Mazda for an errand in poor weather because, as I said, “It’s the most expendable car.”
Honestly, doesn’t even have to be old. My Toyota Yaris is a 2023 model and it has no subscriptions. Such cars still exist, but they are mostly in the lower end market, because automakers assume if you have the money for an expensive car you also have the money for a subscription.
The list of manufacturers I can morally buy from is ever shrinking… Soon Dacia will be the sole manufacturer I could buy from without weird BS attached.
Kia and Ford were EVs I considered but ultimately turned down.
I might be the guy that shows up at the revolution for the most trivial reason but I hate that it says $59.00 per annually like companies think they’re so smart for having business school graduates on staff charging for things only business school graduates would think to charge for but they can’t even get basic grammar right.
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