In the end, the KIA car company made its cars into subscription models, I really hate this because in the end the car we buy with our own money doesn’t feel like it belongs to us. Should we finally buy an old school car ? so as not to be affected by this subscription models or is there a way to crack the software installed in it ?
Just buy used and modify yourself with the tech you want. Send a message that this shit is unacceptable and we are willing to live in a less technologically enhanced world if it means no subscriptions. We keep buying it, they will continue to think this is how you “extract profit” from consumers.
I think sooner or later open source cars will be a thing. The problem (well, it’s a good thing) is that cars need to pass inspection to be road ready. But not bike-like vehicles.
This might shock you but cars where open source for years. Did you think those super detailed shop manuals anyone could buy where not intended to be used to work on the car? How about the massive aftermarket and any and all hot rods? This idea that you can’t fuck with you own stuff because its got a computer in it for “safety” is relatively new. Does no one else remember hooking a laptop up to the old ECUs and modifying how the engine works?
You can absolutely fuck with your car and install after market parts. But your car still needs to pass a minimum level of road safety. That’s for the common good. I mean things like having correct lights, crumple zones, brakes, mirrors etc. Now if you want to make a car that runs on used kit hen scraps I totally think you should. We should own. Own devices including their computer system. But I don’t just the average Joe with the parts that keep me safe from them.
Also, this might not shock you, but cars also used to suck in many ways. Not everything from the past is good.
The issue is normalizing the concept that you do not get to control what you paid for. Responsibility has not changed, you can drive your car into a crowded park and would still be guilty of it regardless of how stock it is. If you mod your stuff to be dangerous that would be a crime. In this case would you say that remote starting your car from your phone somehow is a public safety issue? At least if you jailbroke it to work on your own network?
What happens when the car becomes too old and they decide to drop that version of the API the car is talking with? Huh? That’s another problem with these with “critical service but it can only go through us”, when they change their mind you get fucked.
I bought a 2021 VW GLI, it has a software component called Car-net that has literally never worked. I don’t even know what it’s supposed to do. The little I’ve found is that it’s supposed to have an app remote start and maybe a few other features, but according tk carnet, my car is still dealer owned. There have been at least six contacts to the car net folks from the dealer about the issue. I have a remote start on my FOB so whatever, but the car software support issue is so real. 🤷🏼♂️
I’ve had regular software issues like this in the past and it’s such a pain to deal with and fix. Even going through customer support is painful, because it’s not supposed to be this way so it’s more than likely because of this the customer support experience will be long and you’ll go through more people. And I don’t want to even imagine how it is to have to deal with these issues on critical software and devices and to not get priority support. You feel powerless and broken.
I had to contact the dealer to have them activate the eSIM in the car and register an account their site via the app. (Pretty standard stuff)
And yes it’s a subscription like this for locating the car, updating navdata online and remote heating + charging info. (It’s a hybrid)
Well… I say “just fine” their app is slow and unstable. But everything worked nicely with an unofficial home assistant integration. And when VW moved everything over to their new app, it continued to work on my old car, and it took the HA community about a week to sort most of the new API out.
It’s not perfect, but it does technically work, even on their older models. I can still download and install updated maps on it too for the onboard nav. (Though i usually just use Android auto…)
Even if you decided not to find out how to get it working, doesn’t mean it’s abandoned.
All that being said this is one of many genuine reasons to be concerned about this trend. And a good reason for people that write about and review cars to care about the software in the cars, the support you can expect, and the companys track record when it comes to supporting older models.
And like others have stated. The BMW example with the heated seats is just… rotten.
If you can, get an eBike. Cars need a ton of expensive resources. No matter what car you get, you’re basically renting it for $10k/yr anyway. Bikes can be fixed with a small set of tools in a living room without thousands of dollars of diagnostic equipment.
If you can’t do a bike because of distance, consider a motorcycle. That’s at least a little more free than a car. Cars are the worst.
I don’t think either one is viable for families, but possibly for single folks, depending upon proximity to urban areas. For folks in the sticks with unpaved roads? I don’t think so.
Yeah, I have two kids. We used an eBike in the US. The Dutch would find your comment absolutely hilarious. We do not own a car and haven’t needed one since we moved to the Netherlands. The problem is that you have a proprietary transit infrastructure that forces you to use property cars. Infrastructure is your vendor lock in.
The majority of car trips are under one mile and have one passenger. In the vast majority of cases you can replace a car with an eBike.
This just reminds me of someone else saying something like every time you suggest a car replacement suddenly everyone needs to carry a couch 300 miles in the snow.
It is not possible to be free while you have a car. But yeah, some times your forced in to that by the complete failure of American infrastructure. Cars continue to be your worst option, even if you’re forced to use them.
Edit: Correction, over 60% are under 5 miles, 28% are under a mile. Only 2% are over 50 miles. 69% of the total annual vehicle miles traveled in the U.S. occur in urban areas. In 2019, average car occupancy was 1.5 persons per vehicle.chart showing 75% of trips driving alone
I wish we had better infra to support bikes. Amsterdam is nice how you can ride around on a bike and get anywhere. It’s healthy, environmentally friendly, and cheap. Win win win.
Well instead using e-bike why not purchase an old car (from year 2000 - 2018), like old honda civic or old ford fiesta or old Toyota Corolla
I like your idea but using bike for everything but in the end is bad case especially if you need to go somewhere that very far (well using public transportation in the end kinda costly for longer run especially if you already married & have children)
I’m not saying it’s wrong to have bike for short trip it’s okay yo used bike, but in the end you need reliable car that can make you go everywhere
If you are stuck in a place that actually requires a car then this makes sense. Between the two you’ll save a ton of money.
In the long term though vehicle to vehicle communication will be required for all cars on the road. You will have (probably property) computer in your car controlling it. Unless you go back to like the 80’s or something you’ll still have a proprietary computer in your car that will need to be replaced.
But even getting a bike for occasional trips prepares you for gas prices spiking or your car breaking down.
It’s not like older vehicles came with those features enabled by default. On my 15 year old pickup you can’t have any of that even if you paid for it. I think this is not quite the same as other brands that are locking you out of features like heated seats.
Pretty sure there were cars around 15 years ago with remote start, heated seats, and fancy ways to lock and unlock. No there weren’t phone apps, but nobody wanted that - key fobs worked just fine.
My 2021 jeep’s key fob has an unbelievable range and works fine. My wife’s ford does have a phone app, but it’s completely free.
Don’t think about the one actual subscription service here. Think about all of the features that are technologically built into the car that you can’t access without paying a subscription fee.
The options I see on this screenshot seem to be options that need a data connection to work, so I can understand a subscription for that. There is no free Internet mobile connection afterall. The monthly payment option is expensive for sure but the annual option is not too bad.
Well although older car doesn’t have subscription & sometimes break the emition regulation at least i can repair & modified it by my self, all i need is OBD & some skill tho
In the end I don’t need to worry about subscription, because it doesn’t have it at all plus I don’t need to worry about SOFTWARE UPDATES THAT CAN BREAK CAR, as long as you have gas & your car engine is healthy enough it can run no matter what
For the price of car it’s kinda cheap at first but the longer you used it became more & more expensive it was before you realize it
Imagine this scenario you bought the car for 100K + you pay for subscription for the car annually for 10$ + you had to pay for it’s maintenance at mechanic (things get broken the longer you used, you need to replace the broken part as soon as possible) + you had to pay your electricity or gasoline bills for fuel that car you used + emergency bills like towing the car, etc
No because this is only for connected services. All of those features work without any cost with the included remote. OP is expecting connected services for free for the life of the vehicle.
The Tesla works just fine without the app on your phone? You get a card that works as a key and don’t need a phone at all.
I’m assuming opening the car remotely means when you’re not near the car ( e.g.: at the office while that car is at home ). The touchscreen function isn’t nearly as horrible as you make it out to be, while I do agree a physical button is more practical in some cases.
Hyundai/Kia have also had their fair share of recent car troubles with recalls because they spontaneously catch fire wether you’re driving them or not.
Having said that I don’t really have an opinion on the brands. I know some people who drive it around and they all seem quite satisfied with the car. I’m sure they’re great cars :)
The jab @kia was only in jest. There are other brands who want to use subscriptions for things like seat heating, … Which I find a fecking awful evolution ( I’m looking at you bmw ).
IIRC you can also control it with the steering wheel without using the touch display as well.
If you press the button on the handle to trigger the wipers once. It will also bring up the menu on the screen ( bottom left ). You can then use the right wheel button on your steering wheel by pushing it left or right to move between off and auto with all the different speeds in between ( slower being near off and fast being near automatic ).
Source: I had a Tesla company car. Some things worked well. Other times the car felt quite cheap for being that expensive ( mainly interior and finishing ). The car paint seemed a lot thinner compared to European cars too. ( Company cars are common where I live, I’m not a rich big ass CEO )
Alternatively you can use the voice control as well apparently. I’ve only used the voice to initiate calls though
While there’s a bunch I am assuming you can’t look up the location of your car through an app or website, or adjust the climate controls remotely, or get alerts when the alarm is triggered.
There are some features in here that require some sort of connection, what I find criminal is that they remove the features we DO have on our old cars from the key fob and paywall them behind an app.
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