Aren’t there numbers past (plus/minus) infinity? Last I hear there’s some omega stuff (for denoting numbers “past infinity”) and it’s not even the usual alpha-beta-omega flavour.
Come to think of it, is there even a notation for “the last possible number” in math? aka something that you just can’t tack “+1” at the end of to make a new number?
The smallest infinity is the size of the natural numbers. That infinty, Aleph zero, is smaller than the infinity of the real numbers, Aleph one. “etc.”
As for your second question, I don’t think any “last number” could exist unless we explicitly declared one. And even then… I’m not sure what utility there would be in declaring a “last number”.
There is nothing “past” infinity, infinity is more a concept than a number, there are however many different kinds of infinity. And for the record, infinity + 1 = infinity, those are completely equal. Infinity + infinity = infinity x 2 = still the same kind of infinity. Infinity times infinity is debatably a different kind of infinity but there are fairly simple ways of showing it can be counted the same.
Essentially the number of numbers between 1 and 2 is the same as the number of numbers between 0 and infinity. They are still infinite.
You have the spirit of things right, but the details are far more interesting than you might expect.
For example, there are numbers past infinity. The best way (imo) to interpret the symbol ∞ is as the gap in the surreal numbers that separates all infinite surreal numbers from all finite surreal numbers. If we use this definition of ∞, then there are numbers greater than ∞. For example, every infinite surreal number is greater than ∞ by the definition of ∞. Furthermore, ω > ∞, where ω is the first infinite ordinal number. This ordering is derived from the embedding of the ordinal numbers within the surreal numbers.
Additionally, as a classical ordinal number, ω doesn’t behave the way you’d expect it to. For example, we have that 1+ω=ω, but ω+1>ω. This of course implies that 1+ω≠ω+1, which isn’t how finite numbers behave, but it isn’t a contradiction - it’s an observation that addition of classical ordinals isn’t always commutative. It can be made commutative by redefining the sum of two ordinals, a and b, to be the max of a+b and b+a. This definition is required to produce the embedding of the ordinals in the surreal numbers mentioned above (there is a similar adjustment to the definition of ordinal multiplication that is also required).
Note that infinite cardinal numbers do behave the way you expect. The smallest infinite cardinal number, ℵ₀, has the property that ℵ₀+1=ℵ₀=1+ℵ₀. For completeness sake, returning to the realm of surreal numbers, addition behaves differently than both the cardinal numbers and the ordinal numbers. As a surreal number, we have ω+1=1+ω>ω, which is the familiar way that finite numbers behave.
What’s interesting about the convention of using ∞ to represent the gap between finite and infinite surreal numbers is that it renders expressions like ∞+1, 2∞, and ∞² completely meaningless as ∞ isn’t itself a surreal number - it’s a gap. I think this is a good convention since we have seen that the meaning of an addition involving infinite numbers depends on what type of infinity is under consideration. It also lends truth to the statement, “∞ is not a number - it is a concept,” while simultaneously allowing us to make true expressions involving ∞ such as ω>∞. Lastly, it also meshes well with the standard notation of taking limits at infinity.
Hi, I’m a mathematician. My specialty is Algebra, and my research includes work with transfinites. While it’s commonly said that infinity “isn’t a number” I tend to disagree with this, since it often limits how people think about it. Furthermore, I always find it odd when people offer up alternatives to what infinity is; are numbers never concepts?
Regardless, here’s the thing you’re actually concretely wrong about: there are provably things bigger than infinity, and they are all bigger infinities. Furthermore, there are multiple kinds of transfinite algebra. Cardinal algebra behaves mostly like how you described, except every transfinite cardinal has a successor (e.g. There are countably many natural numbers and uncountably many complex numbers). Ordinal algebra, on the other hand, works very differently: if ω is the ordinal that corresponds to countable infinity, then ω+1>ω.
After reading how this thread is going I’m half expecting this to be a Kurzgesagt video or something equally “cutesy existential dread” inducing lol. Let’s see what do I find!
Last time I saw this kind of challenge it was on reddit and I just replied with ℝ, but people brought up that this leaves out complex numbers. I’ll now contend, however, that any number not included in that isn’t real.
Nope, because what you’re doing is copying the entire sequence, reversing it, and pairing up each element left to right. There’s no way to have any leftovers because the original sequence and the new reversed sequence have the same number of elements.
A perhaps less intuitive way of thinking of it is you start with a sequence of 1 up to N, which contains exactly N elements. The sequence from 1 to N and its reverse together contain 2N elements, which is by definition an even number, regardless of whether N is even or odd. Because it’s even we can break it into pairs without leftovers.
Add the last number onto the end. So the sum of all numbers between 1 and 101 is 50 pairs of 101 plus one extra 101 and the end. It’d end up being 5050 + 101 or 51x101 or 5151
Had a statistics and probability class in hs instead of the standard precalc. I feel it’s more applicable for students now than precalc anyways. It felt pretty cool to sit down in class and figure out the odds of winning on a lotto ticket and when the odds indicate you should buy a ticket.
The math is the same, you just wrote it more “casually”. For me it was 0+100, 1+99, 2+98 … 49+51 -> 100 x 50 = 5000, then add the 50 that was missed from the middle for 5050. But yeah I remember coming up with that when I was really young.
It’s just what happens when wax deforms from pressure. You can do the same thing with plastic straws, if you pack them tightly, or compress them with your hands.
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