infosec.pub

M500, to linuxmemes in Steve Balmer quotes

I was just thinking about why many things on Linux are better. Like the install process on Linux is years ahead of windows.

Then it occurred to me that windows only improves things that can make them money. If you need to install windows, then you can deal with the crappy installer.

Linux devs improve the parts they think need to be better. The decisions are not guided by money and can be made without bias.

cuibono,

This realization somehow amazes and depresses me at the same time

Lmaydev,

The install process on windows is clicking a few buttons.

For the vast majority of users it’s a way better experience.

MonkderZweite,

The install process on windows is clicking a few buttons.

That’s the default tracking experience, if you fall for all the dark patterns. Was a while ago, hunh?

scarilog,

There’s that one screen where you disable telemetry, which I’ve always consider a part of the install process, but is there anything malicious other than that? The process as a whole is quite straightforward in my experience.

Lmaydev,

Again the vast vast majority of users don’t care. And that’s their target audience.

RandomVideos,

From my experience(installing windows 10, 11, linux mint and nobara), installing linux is way easier than installing windows

crispy_kilt,

Linux devs improve the parts they think need to be better. The decisions are not guided by money and can be made without bias.

Sounds pretty communist

avidamoeba, (edited )
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Sounds like the decisions about what to make, how to make it and for whom to make it are done by the people doing the work. 🤔🫢

danc4498,

Most people don’t install windows. It comes pre installed on something they bought. Microsoft probably puts more time into automating the process.

Also, last time I installed windows it was a breeze. I haven’t installed Linux in at least a decade, so I can’t speak for that.

kaboom36,

Try installing debian some time, the installer makes windows’ installer feel like its for a piece of software you got of a sketchy site that wants to install 16 other things not even related to it

hackris,

I mean, sounds exactly like the Windows installer to me

kaboom36,

We must be using different installers then, because between the amount of telemetry you have to turn off, the dark patterns, and the insistence on using a Microsoft account the whole experience reminds me of installing one of those “driver updaters” when I was a kid and before I learned that was a very bad idea

captain_oni,

I trust Bonzi Buddy more than anything made by microsoft at this point.

exocortex, (edited )

Now that you’ve got the idea apply it to everything in capitalist society. Especially if something is owned by shareholders.

AVincentInSpace, (edited ) to linuxmemes in It's OK if you cry

Those have gotten a lot better in recent years. Last time I had an issue with WiFi drivers was in 2016.

Graphics drivers, on the other hand, especially Optimus…

9point6,

Some of us are still recovering from the trauma

state_electrician,

I sometimes still think about the time I was trying to print in 1996.

rostby,

Iwlwifi firmware-a0-gf has not been detected… 😔

remotelove, (edited )
@remotelove@lemmy.ca avatar

I never have. Just thinking about WiFi and Bluetooth drivers on random laptops still puts me into a full flashback state. (My first experience was back in 2002, I think?)

However, getting all of that stuff working was the best learning experience I ever had. At the time, I was just learning about IT security and WiFi pcap was all the rage back then.

0x4E4F,

I never have. Just thinking about WiFi and Bluetooth drivers on random laptops still puts me into a full flashback state. (My first experience was back in 2002, I think?)

https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/9c44f85c-31dc-4ce4-8696-ffbb3b7b82d3.webm

quantumantics,

Same, flashbacks to being in college trying to get Wi-Fi working in Fedora on my laptop and then struggling to get it to work with my uni’s new Wi-Fi system. Frustrating, but a great learning experience as you said.

Vqhm,

Even a decade ago it usually meant ticking a box that you also allowed nonfree drivers.

Even Debian allowed you to download the specific nonfree driver you needed and add it (without Internet) at imaging so post install you could connect with wifi and not just Ethernet.

It’s come a long way. But doesn’t anyone else remember when windows did not have drivers and you’d constantly be confronted with “have disk”?

I mean, the amount of drivers for old hardware I still have saved… Because before win10 nothing would reliability always fetch the driver you need from the net…

bjorney,

Ticking the non-free driver box was child’s play. As late as like 2012 I remember needing to download NDISwrapper so I could make the windows drivers work through a compatibility layer

KISSmyOS,

Oh god, why did you have to trigger that memory???

be_excellent_to_each_other,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

I mean, if you buy broadcom you reap what you sow. And 2012 was 11 years ago. ;-)

bjorney,

When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(

And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell

be_excellent_to_each_other,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(

I apologize for my general grumpiness this morning. Totally reasonable. :-)

And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell

I lol'd. :-)

Cenzorrll,

I recall jaunty jackalope being the Ubuntu version that became my full time os. It was that version that my IBM x31 had everything taken care of on install with the third party drivers checked. I feel like the LTS version following that was where you could buy a generation previous of any hardware and it’d work without much fuss.

DannyBoy,

This reminds me of the big USB drive of drivers that we had at a PC repair shop. When Windows 7 failed to find drivers, we’d stick that in and give it a scan.

AtariDump,

I remember that, but for Xp. Downloading a “driver pack”, pointing windows at the root of the folder, and praying.

SorryQuick,

The nvidia driver has had this bug for a year now, still unfixed. Games will randomly crash with an Xid 109 error in dmesg. Some people (including myself) are unable to play games like Cyberpunk, Resident Evil 2-3-4-7-8 and Metro Exodus. And it’s not linked to proton either, it sometimes also crashes xorg itself, forcing a reboot. I’m starting to think nvidia will never bother fixing it.

LemmysMum,

3% desktop marketshare, it’s stop to pick up money, not go out of your way money.

KSPAtlas,
@KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz avatar

I just had to deal with nvidia breaking xwayland and making it unusable with an update

almost1337, to memes in Almost that time of year

The older you get, the more excited you get for socks as a present.

plague_sapiens,
@plague_sapiens@lemmy.world avatar

This. While being annoyed by one of my grandmothers giving me bed sheets as a birthday present when I was around 10. I now totally understand and like it. Haven’t really bought much clothes since ever, cause my mother and sister are currently fullfilling my grandmother’s task for years now xD And it’s nice to use the money I would have spent on clothes to buy me more tech stuff I really want.

omgitsaheadcrab,

My dad gets us happy socks for Christmas lately, it’s awesome. I don’t need to buy socks anymore

tdawg,

Only if they’re comfy tho

Kyle,

Yeah! Who’s getting more sad about getting socks every year? As soon as I moved out I started appreciating the gift 😃

If people ask for gift hints I often say “fun socks!”

shiroininja,

I get tired of it, because I don’t need socks every year. My stuff lasts. I end up with too many socks. It’s like buying me a new pair of shoes or something. Like uh no, those last me 3-5 years. Those are utilitarian purchases that are made less often

Th4tGuyII,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

Exactly. Thought it dumb when I was younger, but now it's a great thing!
Makes me wonder how old OP is?

HurlingDurling,

Fuck, I must be old then. I love socks as a present

KISSmyOS, to linuxmemes in It's OK if you cry

You should switch to rolling release memes, yours are outdated.

cyanarchy,

Have some respect for the classics

Moobythegoldensock, (edited )

Please get this bad boy working well on rolling release, then:

gitlab.com/TuxThePenguin0/bes2600

KISSmyOS, (edited )

This isn’t a Linux compatibility issue. You bought a device where the manufacturer told you in advance that a driver for the built-in wifi module doesn’t exist yet. It’s a product at the development stage.

So just follow the manufacturer’s recommendation from the product page: use a wifi dongle for now and pat yourself on the back for being an early adopter.

Moobythegoldensock, (edited )

Having the device, I already tether the wifi. But it is indeed a compatibility issue: the old kernel drivers for the chip were janky and it’s doubtful how well they even worked the time. The code is apparently such a hot mess that the people who were working on it have stopped making progress. There is now skepticism that it will ever be fully functional.

0x4E4F,

Yeah, you’re too young to remember the glory days 😂.

KISSmyOS,

I’m old enough but it’s not the case anymore.

Lmaydev, to linuxmemes in Steve Balmer quotes

Microsoft loves open source nowadays.

People do a huge amount of their work for free.

They’re also heavily invested in Linux for the cloud. So any work done there helps them.

0x4E4F,

Steve Balmer wasn’t as keen on it…

palordrolap,

With Microsoft, any love shown could well be the Embrace part of the strategy that will lead to Extend and then Extinguish just as soon as they can figure those parts out. They might already have a plan.

The fact they've been able to turn things to their advantage so far does not mean they don't have such a plan. Or won't ever have one.

Lmaydev, (edited )

Seems unlikely with how they work now. You also can’t really extinguish foss.

.Net is cross platform and open source as well now.

Maybe if Linux becomes a competitor in the desktop market. But I don’t see that happening any time soon.

RoyaltyInTraining, to linuxmemes in Steve Balmer quotes
@RoyaltyInTraining@lemmy.world avatar

Anyone know how I can program Anarchism?

wheelie,

Open a git repo.

squaresinger,

dd if=/dev/random of=anarchism bs=1024 count=1024;chmod 755 anarchism;./anarchism

malijaffri,

Holy hell, I need to try this in a vm sometime!

0x4E4F, (edited )

The output is not valid, it won’t do anything… maybe write to a file “anarchism” in the dir in which the terminal was opened.

squaresinger,

I think that emulates anarchism pretty well.

0x4E4F,

Well, not exactly. Anarchism is pretty close to what Socialism is, in terms of distributing labour.

PotatoesFall,

work on decentralized technology like lemmy

Cowbee,

The same way, generally. Work on decentralized, open source software. It’s modern Mutual Aid.

crispy_kilt,

Anarchists are just people who think Stalinism is communism and haven’t read Marx yet

ThePhantomGM,

Allow all code merges automatically

oce,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

Anarchy is not absence of rules, it’s absence of hierarchy. So you could still collectively agree to certain rules for merges.

uis,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

Basicaly democracy on steroids

aksdb,

So we could use a blockchain… (/s)

mcmoor,

But then one person disagree with those rules and we’re back to no rules

oce,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

You can have a majority vote system.

rottingleaf,

Which is not a collective agreement and not anarchism, if it imposes rules on those who voted against.

oce,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

Is it not possible for the people to all agree to respect the result of the majority vote even if they voted against the motion?

rottingleaf,

Which requires a consensus.

oce,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

An initial one.

rottingleaf,

Which can be broken at any moment, and no infant is bound by it until they accept it, and they have the choice of not accepting it.

Expecting some aliens to bring us the end of scarcity is similar to this in terms of probabilities.

Norgur,

Open a GitHub repo with a hello world script and accept each and every commit

JCreazy, to linuxmemes in It's OK if you cry

All my Wi-Fi just works on any machine I have Linux on. But yeah years ago this was not the case.

0x4E4F,

Agreed 👍.

DudeDudenson,

Now you get to struggle with audio drivers!

Chobbes,

Audio drivers have never really been a problem in my experience, but maybe you’re referring to pulseaudio? In which case, pipewire has been great!

DudeDudenson,

It works great until you try to use Bluetooth anything and need to connect and disconnect regularly (it can literally freeze your entire system), and don’t get me started with trying to get digital surround to work

pistapopper,

There’s this one Bluetooth speaker with a microphone that I have, that I had hoped to use for calls, that has just refused to work. Spent hours trying to get them to work but had to admit defeat. But yes, things have improved significantly.

ThisIsAManWhoKnowsHowToGling,
@ThisIsAManWhoKnowsHowToGling@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Mine doesn’t work. Definitely linux’s fault that I destroyed its wifi giblets while moving my PC a bit too aggressively

vonxylofon, to memes in Almost that time of year

Hogwash! I love getting new socks. Last year, I got bright green socks with avocados on them. Glorious.

Rai,

RAICHU SOCKS

RAICHU SOCKS

MORE SOCKS PLZ

ace, to linuxmemes in Cmake me!
@ace@lemmy.ananace.dev avatar

People love to complain about CMake, often with valid complaints as well. But it - to this day - remains the only build system where I’ll actually trust a project when they say they are cross-platform.

Being the Windows maintainer for OpenMW, it used to be absolute hell back a decade and half ago when an indirect dependency changed - and used something like SCons or Premake while claiming to be “cross-platform”, used to be that I had to write my own build solutions for Windows since it was all hardcoded against Linux paths and libraries.

CMake might not be the coolest, most hip, build system, but it delivers on actually letting you build your software regardless of platform. So it remains my go-to for whenever I need to actually build something that’s supposed to be used.
For personal things I still often hack together a couple of Makefiles though, it’s just a lot faster to do.

rostby,

Wasn’t WSL supposed to solve this problem

ace,
@ace@lemmy.ananace.dev avatar

Not really, WSL seems like it was mainly supposed to stop people leaping ship to be able to develop Node without the horribly painful Windows JS experience. And wouldn’t you know it, Microsoft has been making their own JavaScript language in Typescript.

uis,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

CMake and meson aren’t build systems, they are generators. If you want to use Ninja, just add -G Ninja.

AMDIsOurLord,

Cross platform

(*As long as your platform isn’t shite)

akatsukilevi, to linuxmemes in It's OK if you cry
@akatsukilevi@kbin.social avatar

Am I supposed to have Wifi driver issues? My laptop's one always worked flawlessly without me having to even look at it

cholesterol,

Wi-Fi used to be a pretty common thing to not work out of the box or to break in updates. I kept a usb Wi-Fi dongle in a bag as a backup just because of this.

be_excellent_to_each_other,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

It's a really simple problem to avoid, and IMO has been for years. It's been at least 10 years since I've bought something without intel wifi so maybe I'm out of touch, but I'm kind of astounded there are so many upvotes to the meme.

My rule for a very long time has been: Get something with intel wifi, or even atheros wifi, and you will almost certainly not have a problem. Get broadcom wifi and your problem will directly relate to how much effort your distro has put into trying to make broadcom not be shit. Stay the fuck way from realtek and mediatek.

That's it. I literally can't recall a time since about 2010 when I had a wifi problem with Linux on any device I owned.

I keep two of these in my bag for instant wifi on any device I might happen to be working on that doesn't have it. Most recently popped one into an old desktop I picked up for my youngest son, and have used it previously as a workaround for someone who had a laptop where the onboard wifi worked but would not come back from sleep. (That was broadcom, IIRC)

0x4E4F,

Trust me when I say this, that wasn’t always the case 😔.

onlinepersona, (edited ) to linuxmemes in It's OK if you cry

Lemmy needs polls. The last time I had problems with WIFI drivers was… 15 years ago? On a laptop bought in a supermarket that originally came with Windows Vista. Oh, and the raspberry pi - fuck raspberry pis. They can’t pick wifi module worth shit.

Honytawk,

Welcome to 90% of all the anti-Windows arguments made on here by Linux users.

onlinepersona, (edited )

I’m not sure I follow… are you saying Linux users judge windows by very old problems?

Johanno,

I mean it isn’t Linux fault, but I wanted to install balenaos on my RaspberryPi and they don’t support a WiFi chip in their kernel. Without WiFi the whole idea won’t work for me. And I don’t want to buy a new WiFi usb only because they don’t want to add the drivers.

My attempts to add it to the kernel and build it myself failed so far.

onlinepersona,

I’m not faulting linux, I’m faulting the Raspberry Pi Foundation. Linux is their main operating system and they haven’t picked a good WIFI hardware module for years. Dunno if the new raspberrypi 4 is better, but I’m not paying to find out.

linuxdweeb, (edited )

All single board computers have driver problems because they require custom kernel forks that can’t or don’t get mainlined for whatever reason (usually laziness), but Raspberry PI is actually the best when it comes to that stuff.

So when you buy an SBC, you need to ask yourself: will the company continue to develop/update/patch their custom kernel fork now that they shipped? Or will they just abandon it and move on to the next product? 9 times out of 9.01, it’s the latter.

Johanno,

I am running a pi 1. No WiFi included. The usb I have worked for everything so far

onlinepersona,

That’s the only thing that worked for me too. The inbuilt WiFi is useless.

Johanno,

On pi 4 with raspbian no issues. Didn’t try a different os on that yet

LufyCZ,

Quick correction, the Pi5 is the new one

onlinepersona,

Thanks. I’m out of the loop.

0x4E4F,

Try Void, maybe it has the adequate firmware binary blobs… worth a try 🤷.

Sowhatever,

Raspberry, seriously? What problems are you seeing?

I have a raspberry pi 3 acting as a 5GHz access point for as long as it’s been on the market, I can remember one time I had to restart it because of some wonkiness. About a dozen others as clients, never had an issue there either, fast and stable enough.

All using the default os (raspbian first, raspberry os later).

onlinepersona,

I’ve had 3 raspberry pis (1,2,3) and none have had stable WiFi. After an hour or two it would drop and the logs would get spammed with some error that I can’t remember. Might be this issue wlan freezes in raspberry pi 3/PiZeroW (Not 3B+) . Similar issue Every two hours, like clockwork: “wpa_supplicant[313]: nl80211: kernel reports: key addition failed”.

After that, I gave up on WiFi on Raspberries and used LAN, but they are so underpowered… my nextcloud instance took ages to do anything, XBMC (now Kodi) was slow and couldn’t render videos > 720p (it was struggling with 720p honestly), even a simple audio proxy over bluetooth (forward bluetooth audio from phone to speaker) barely functioned as the bluetooth cut out or it was janky as hell.

It’s easier to put a old phone as a server than a raspberrypi.

Sowhatever,

Might be some AP incompatibility maybe, I’ve never seen those.

XBMC didn’t have drivers for video acceleration, but the raspberry pi 1 was able to play 1080p flawlessly if you used omxplayer.

Now kodi has the drivers included and the 4 can even play 4k up to certain bit rate.

The new ones are too expensive tho, a used NUC is a much better deal.

onlinepersona,

Might be some AP incompatibility maybe, I’ve never seen those.

Lucky you. Tried 4 different routers --> same issue.

I gave up on RasPis long ago.

0x4E4F,

There are some oddball cards out there that need the linux firmware xxx (insert manufacturer instead of xxx) binary blobs in order to work, but yes, those cards are rare nowadays and mostly older hardware uses that (as you mentioned, hardware from 10+ years ago).

victorz,

Had problems about 3 years ago, got a new laptop from work and the WiFi hardware was too new and didn’t have support in the kernel yet. Took a year or something, maybe less, until it worked.

onlinepersona,

For new hardware, it’s no surprise when it doesn’t work out of the box as most drivers are written for windows first. That’s not a fault of linux.

victorz,

Yep, just saying I had problems.

popekingjoe, to linuxmemes in It's OK if you cry
@popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

ndiswrapper flashbacks o_o

ace,
@ace@lemmy.ananace.dev avatar

Amusingly enough, one of the HP laptops I used in that era actually worked better with ndiswrapper somehow.

It was the only one to do so though.

popekingjoe,
@popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

Miracles happen I suppose. :D

ace,
@ace@lemmy.ananace.dev avatar

“It’s a ndiswrapper miracle!” - a statement only uttered by the completely deranged.

Sowhatever,

Debían 3.0… good times.

EpicFailGuy,
@EpicFailGuy@lemmy.world avatar

BROADCOM …

folkrav,

I thought I had completely erased this from my memory. Turns out I did not. I would thank you if it wasn’t such a traumatic experience.

popekingjoe,
@popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

I am so sorry.

maryjayjay,

You are a bad person

popekingjoe,
@popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

I accept this.

thequickben,

Oh no. My broadcom laptop chip from 2005 was a major pain in the ass and this did not help 😆

popekingjoe,
@popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah those were some dark times.

hperrin, to linuxmemes in Every god damn time!

Ok, I don’t get it. Can you explain it to me?

0x4E4F,

Timeshift works only with BTRFS subvolumes, thus, if you wanna have backups (snapshots), you have to have subvolumes and not install in the root of a BTRFS filesystem 😔.

rostby,

Immutable distros rejoice 😎

0x4E4F,

Take way too much space… I dual boot on the same drive 🤷.

Turun,

If you want to you can just create a new subvolume, mount it temporarily and move all your files from root to there. Then you need to figure out how to make the new subvolume your root directory upon boot and you are done.

0x4E4F, (edited )

I know how to do that, you set the subvolume as the default one, thus, when mounting, if no options are passed, it always mounts that subvolume as root.

But, you have to disable that. Sure, I set it during install, cuz installers are stupid (if you tell it to install in /@, it will most probably moan), but disable it after first run (set the real root as the default subvol, i.e. mount point) and just add subvol mount options in fstab.

It’s just extra steps I have to do now 😒, that’s why the rant.

PrecisePangolin,

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

eager_eagle,
@eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

That’s only to backup/rollback the root though, right? If one’s looking to backup - say - their home dir, they can just recreate the home as a subvolume without reinstalling the system. Or am I mistaken?

AnonStoleMyPants,

You can definitely do this with a few commands.

raldone01, (edited )

github.com/…/btrfs_folder_to_subvol.fish

Because I often forget to do it I wrote a little helper script.

This file can be run or sourced and only depends on btrfs-progs and fish.

0x4E4F,

Awww man, thanks ☺️.

Good thing I love fiish, it’s my default shell 😉.

0x4E4F,

Yes, you can just set it to mount a, let’s say @home, subvolume to /home and that’s that, done.

reflex, (edited )
@reflex@kbin.social avatar

Timeshift

Oh okey so if I have Snapper already, nothing I need to worry about?

valveman,

Snapper also uses btrfs subvolumes to create snapshots, so if you did create them during your installation process, nothing to worry about.

I don’t remember if there is a way to create them after the installation, neither if it’s a tough process tho. I used to simply reinstall when I messed up with the subvolumes.

backhdlp,
@backhdlp@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

sudo btrfs subvolumes create /path/to/subvolume

If you don’t configure anything, root will already be a subvolume.

If you wanna make a used directory a subvolume, you have to move the contents first, and move them back after creation.

The only thing that takes time here is the move

0x4E4F, (edited )

Yeah, but Timeshift uses the Ubuntu style subvolume naming, @ for root, @home for /home, so you have to create them that way, otherwise, it won’t work. It can work if you tell it to ignore home, but checks for @ as root on start up.

domi, (edited )
@domi@lemmy.secnd.me avatar

Check out Btrfs Assistant. It does what Timeshift does with a similar UI but works with any subvolume layout.

0x4E4F,

Hm, will check it out, thanks for the suggestion 😉.

backhdlp,
@backhdlp@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Wasn’t aware of that, using snapper for my snapshotting needs.

0x4E4F, (edited )

I haven’t tried it. Does it have like daily, weekly, monthly snapshots setup?

backhdlp,
@backhdlp@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

You can have hourly, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly. I also use snap-pac to make snapshots before and after pacman transactions.

Check out wiki.archlinux.org/title/Snapper

riodoro1, to linuxmemes in Cmake me!

CMake has been around forever and is flexible enough to build really complex software. You just need to pull out enough hair when you want it to do something.

wahming, to newcommunities in HailCorporate: Call Out Corporate Astroturfing on Lemmy

Based on OP’s comments on this thread, I can only imagine what the modding of the community is going to look like

demesisx, (edited )
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

Let’s characterize it!

I won’t abide stanning for the billionaire class or calls to impotent civility. I very much have in my heart EXACTLY the spirit of what /r/HailCorporate was and if you doubt that, you are exactly the type of corporatist cuck that I created this community to reveal.

Now to characterize your privileged perspective:

“I have no sympathy for marginalized groups, quite literally pleading for their lives. If they wanted my sympathy, they should have done so more politely!”

wahming,

I haven’t even gone into my personal opinions, but gj on deducing them.

Just what the fediverse needs. Another pit of toxicity and baseless witch hunting.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Best one:

hexbear.net is the place for people like me

Tells you everything you need to know.

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