Watched it. It is a pretty OK. Typical forgettable marvel movie. There is a villain and heroes do something, and the day is saved. That is all I expect from these movies t.b.h. Mild entertainment.
I don’t understand the hatred received for it though. Most of them either seem to be on either their expectations not being met or they are tired of these superhero movies.
Well if it didn’t meet your expectations, don’t keep it so high for these movies. And if you don’t like superhero movies, don’t watch them. Solved.
Well if it didn’t meet your expectations, don’t keep it so high for these movies.
I’ve been seeing this sentiment a lot and it’s such a shitty take.
Basically you’re saying, “If a movie isn’t liked, it’s the fault of the viewer.” since the only option it leaves is, “Continue lowering your expectations until you’re happy with whatever you end up getting.”
Do you think they make movies without caring if it would be good ? All those people, all that money invested and they don’t care for returns. Obviously not. They want returns and they try to make a good movie.
In the case of Marvel movies people keep their expectations so high that even decent movies like The Marvels is shit to them. That’s definitely the fault of the high expectations.
Again, I’m not saying it is the best movie. But it definitely doesn’t deserve the hatred it is getting.
On the other hand, do you think every movie is made with love and attention to detail or do you think some are shoved out there because they think people are dumb enough to just hand money over? Obviously not, in my opinion—many movies are phoned in. Many sequels, and evidence suggests all known “cinematic universes” tell a ramshackle and uninspired story in hopes that viewers of the original material are attached enough to the characters that they come back for more, instead of trying a new story with new characters.
Nobody is obliged to appreciate a movie simply for existing. It wasn’t a gift.
I mean, if you keep watching these movies, and you keep getting disappointed by them, it is your fault. You’re still giving them money to make a movie you basically know you’re not going to like, based on recent data. Either stop watching, lower your expectations, or just always be disappointed.
Idk. It’s a little bit of both right? I mean if you go see Pride and Prejudice because you want to see some epic fight scenes, you’re going to be disappointed.
Nah that seems like more of a strawman or moving the goalposts than anything remotely reflective of the actual situation.
Nobody is criticizing this movie because they went into it expecting an oscar-bait period romantic drama. Nobody.
Literally every single person knew what the movie was supposed to be: a superhero movie. An action/adventure movie with excitement, a few mild scares, some laughs, explosions, fights, etc. Sure, within the genre there can be “light-hearted, mostly comedy romp” and “dark, gritty, shades of grey” tones of film within it, but zero people are walking into this one expecting Pride and Prejudice, and it’s silly at best to suggest otherwise.
So when we’re talking about expectations, we’re not talking about the overall genre or tone expectations, we’re talking about expectations as to how well executed, well acted, well written, and well thought out the various elements were.
So yeah, when people say they found it disappointing, not being up to their expectations, they mean as a superhero movie. Further, given the steady diet they’ve been fed of the same, they mean, specifically, "up to the expectation set by many, many other similar films in the genre, in the same umbrella IP, from the same studio, released in the same broad time period.
It really doesn’t get a whole lot more apples-to-apples than expectations for a Disney/Marvel superhero movie in the 2020s.
So no, sorry, I can’t buy the angle that “if the film didn’t meet your expectations, it’s your unreasonable expectations that are to blame because you didn’t know what kind of movie it was supposed to be”.
Further, even if that were the case, that wouldn’t be so much lowering expectations as changing them. So when we see people specifically use the word “lower”, it suggests that’s not what they’re thinking at all.
No it’s more like “I don’t need it to be a goddamn Oscar winner to enjoy it”. It’s not blaming the viewer, it’s just saying that it still has good reasons to exist and if you have higher standards, off you go instead of just shitting on it in its entirety
For me it’s the way Captain Marvel was shoehorned into the MCU without any real development, and existed as what was basically a walking plot hole. Marvel movies have never been perfect but their whole thing was building characters into it over years. By Infinity War we’d been watching these characters for years and we wanted to watch the end of their stories. Then they just plopped Captain Marvel down into the series at the last second, had the existing legacy characters tell us the audience how to feel about her because the writers knew we wouldn’t care organically, made her disappear in Infinity war and most of endgame because they didn’t actually have anything for her to do except be a deus ex machine at the end of Endgame.
It also doesn’t help that Brie Larson just phones it in any time she’s on screen.
I agree that of the three lead roles I felt only Miss Marvel (Iman Vellani) seems to be the most developed character. And her portrayal alone is one of the positives of the movie too.
But as a movie it is still enjoyable like any other Marvel movie. It is a light hearted fun movie.
The level of hatred it received even before it got released is so cringy. Just borrow someone else’s opinion and spew it elsewhere.
I agree that of the three lead roles I felt only Miss Marvel (Iman Vellani) seems to be the most developed character. And her portrayal alone is one of the positives of the movie too.
But as a movie it is still enjoyable like any other Marvel movie. It is a light hearted fun movie.
The level of hatred it received even before it got released is so cringy. They seen to just borrow someone else’s opinion and spew it elsewhere.
There are all the anti-women wackos out there but more than hate, I think there are a lot of us that just aren’t interested. And it’s not because we don’t want to watch a movie with female leads, it’s because the characters are just half baked. I have regularly heard from people that they only saw it for Ms Marvel, and then you had to have watched the show. Lots of people don’t want to engage with all the shows.
You have to think of the general public and their patience for subpar serialized moviegoing experiences. Marvel hasn’t had a standout movie since Endgame and the final movie of the Spiderman Home series. The last one I saw in theaters was Doctor Strange 2, but that was only because it was the “ending” for Wandavision. The last four movies since then have not been great, and Captain Marvel doesn’t exactly get crowds excited. I’m not even going to bother because I’ve learned from the Marvel movie experience that is so serialized and there are so many references that I’ll probably need to slog through the ones I missed to fully enjoy it without being confused. I have mild interest but not enough to change the position I’m in.
The MCU Golden Age is over. We’ll have to get past Phase 5 and see where we end up, because Phase 4 only had a few enjoyable films, and Phase 5 so far has been pretty bad.
I have a rule. You get 3 movies of a thing and then I stop paying attention. Marvel, star wars, fast and furious, I don’t care, 3 of the “same” story and I’m out.
Who asked for this? I also heard they are reshooting the next Capt America, which was almost complete and now moved from 2024 to 2025, to take out a new hero called Sabra, a zionist superhero who works for the Mossad (I am not kidding.) Gosh, I wonder why. Who green-lit this?
This movie was already catching heat because they went with Black Falcon as their next Capt America, instead of, or I don’t know, rebooting Steve Rodgers, the original Capt from decades of comics. This is why we can’t have nice things.
I don’t disagree, there have been more than a few questionable decisions made by Disney execs on the MCU.
But…
I’m pretty sure Sam Wilson has been Captain America in the comics, more than once I think. I don’t think it’s a bad move for them to make this change, especially with how well they wrapped up Steve’s arc in Endgame. Actors age and using canon replacements is a great way to continue a franchise and introduce new stories.
Also: it’s not Black Falcon, it’s just Falcon. Gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren’t being racist about it.
Who is actually going to all of these Marvel movies? I thought everyone came to the same conclusion that Marvel started sucking noticeably immediately after Endgame.
Yeah even the filler shit up to endgame was questionable, I just assumed they’d stop making them after that. Now you have a TV show to watch as homework so you can understand the movies.
Do people seriously have the time to waste to just watch superhero shit endlessly? There’s only so many ways you can write the same premise.
Marvel has been writing new stories in the genre (what you’re calling “the same premise”) for like 6 times longer than the MCU has been around. And they have more story arcs to deal with than the simplified MCU stuff.
Sure it’s not all great, but I don’t think there’s any shortage of possibilities within the genre.
I said from release day that Infinity War was the better movie. Endgame is good because it’s the culmination of 10+ years of movies, it wasn’t a good movie on its own. It wasn’t necessarily bad imo, but it was a step down from IW
Have you seen what comic fans will consume over very long time periods, good or bad? It’s almost like there are plenty of marvel fans that still watch even if it’s not Oscar worthy
I don’t go to any of the movies in the theater but I watch a lot of them on my nice big TV at home.
They are a hell of a lot more interesting than the average boring TV show about Cops, Judges, Doctors, and Lawyers. Maybe there should be a superhero that combines all those like Dr Cop Judge, Attorney at Law and Private Investigator for Hire. Judge Dredd wasn’t enough.
I’m a comic fan and I’ve watched all of them, and will continue. The problem people are having is they’re expecting these movies to be like movies instead of comics, but the MCU has been thinking like comics for a long time now. Just like in comics, not every issue is going to be some enormous crossover event with huge stakes and universe-shifting impact. Most comics are character series issues, where the A plot is just some fun excuse for the hero to do cool shit and have a little bit of character growth. Comics are literally soap operas for boys and nerds, and that’s what makes them great. The same applies here. Ya’ll are attempting to compare X-Factor issue #97 to The Death of Captain Marvel, but those were never comparable things and they were never meant to be. If you go in to these films expecting X-Factor issue #97 instead, you might be able to enjoy these films for the non-serious popcorn media they’re meant to be.
I want movies, I never liked comic books. Others want comic books and weren’t huge movie fans. Disney hasn’t committed to either and it’s not working.
I know I’ve stopped caring about the MCU entirely since Endgame. I’m really not interested in this comic style storytelling, just like I wasn’t as a kid.
And that’s fine. But why assume all media has to be for you? These are comic films from a comic company; if you weren’t ever into comic books why assume you’d be into these?
Because historically they’ve been for audiences like me, and now that they’re not, they’re wondering where everyone went. I assumed I’d enjoy these because I’ve enjoyed previous marvel movies, but I can’t name a single (marvel) movie since NWH that I’ve enjoyed. It’s been a massive shift in their movies that can’t be ignored.
They weren’t originally this comic book like up until just before endgame (coincidentally when everyone started to think the quality of the content is trending down)
No, they were, it’s just that by the time people got on board we were past the issue cycle and were onto the event cycle, so people got used to the incline and expected that that was going to be how these went: endless incline in excitement. But that was all the Infinity War lead up and climax. Now we’re in the lull leading into the next build-up cycle. We’re back at the Thor through Guardians 1 stage of the cycle, basically.
Going back to watch any of the Phase 1 movies is such a better experience than any of the Phase 4 or Phase 5 movies. There doesn’t need to be endless excitement, there just needs to be decent writing, and that’s missing from anything new. Nobody cares about any of the new characters.
There’s never been a huge number of flops from marvel with people losing more and more interest in watching them. There’s no clear plan forward, as their planned “Thanos” scale villain has been in hot water irl and will likely not be able to continue to play the character.
I can’t speak to anyone else’s experience, but I personally care about the MCU Shang-Chi, Kate Bishop, Yelena, Monica, Kamala, Moon Knight, hell I even care about Stature (Ant-Man’s daughter) a little bit.
As to the “plan forward,” I dunno man, it seems weird to borrow worry by letting speculative futures impact your opinion on and enjoyment of what’s in front of you. Maybe it’s not for you, that’s okay, but it you think it could be for you, I would suggest maybe trying to focus on what’s on the screen rather than caring about what’s happening behind the screen so much.
I’m not a business analyst; I’m not in the speculating market. I’m a media consumer, so I’m going to choose to judge them on their output, not any of the factors surrounding it or the discourse about it. For me, ignoring all the outside noise, I can only think of about 3 MCU-related properties that I watched and did not enjoy myself while watching. That’s all I’m looking for out of this relationship, so as far as I’m concerned they’re still doing right by me.
That’s where we differ. I couldnt care less for pretty much any of those characters. Maybe it’s because I’m not the target demographic, but absolutely none of them connected at all with me, they were often just another marvel protagonist who follows the exact same story as all the other ones. That worked in Phase 1, it won’t work now that it’s played out.
Even as far back as Iron Man there was a plan forward. They had some idea of where everything was going, even if the viewers didn’t see it. Currently it looks like they have no ultimate endgame and don’t have any idea what’s happening next.
The on-screen product has been terrible. All of the D+ Shows have been downright horrid and I’ve given up on trying to force myself to watch them to keep up. MoM had me leaving the theater genuinely angry at how bad they fucked up all the characters.
I can’t name a single marvel property that’s landed well since NWH, and NWH was heavily carried by nostalgia. Ant-Man was some spy kids level of terrible, MoM completely ruined a ton of character development, black widow was just bad, and the list keeps going on. There is clearly some larger issues because I know it’s not just myself who feels this way about the current phase.
I’m no longer enjoying the content because of the poor writing and extremely shallow characters. And it may be that those elements were present in the original marvel films, but the tropes have been played out so much that they’re predictable.
Superhero fatigue may not be a thing (The Boys/Batman have been great), but there sure is Marvel fatigue
Don’t know what to tell you friend, my opinion is nearly entirely opposite yours. But I’m not trying to convince you to like Marvel, as I’ve hinted at before, if comics weren’t for you why assume comic movies would be? I was only trying to answer dangblingus’s question “Who is actually going to all of these Marvel movies?” Me, I am.
I’ve been entertained by all of the Disney+ series, with perhaps the exception of Secret Invasion which was pretty rough and superfluous.
I don’t see how any of the characters were fucked up in MoM personally.
NWH is easily one of my least favorite MCU properties as I think it’s an empty film with nothing but fanservice to offer, but even I will concede it has a couple moments that are so good they almost redeem and justify the whole film, so I still like it well enough to not call it “bad.”
Ant-Man wasn’t great, I’ll agree there, but Ant-Man has always been the “family” property in the Marvel deck. Yes, I know these are all “family” films to some degree, but Ant-Man has always been the only active father in the MCU, his films have been the only ones to actively involve a child, and his films have been the ones most filled with goofy gags and humor. So complaining that Ant-Man felt like Spy Kids is a big silly to me, because the Ant-Man series is very much trying to capture a similar segment that the Spy Kids films were.
I thought Black Widow was definitely unnecessary in the “how does this fit into the greater picture” sense, but otherwise was great, and again is very comic book in the sense that sometimes they just publish side origin stories mostly out of continuity. Your complaints about lacking depth feel especially hollow here, as I think Black Widow genuinely focused on adding depth to Natasha (and succeeded) while introducing Yelena in a way that made her feel full, developed, and three-dimensional.
So I’m not sure what you want from these films, but I think they may just not be for you. It’s cool you dipped your toe in the water and had fun with them for awhile, but that doesn’t mean you or anyone else was wronged just because you decided the room wasn’t for you after all. 🤷♂️
I am. I recognize that many of them are only okay movies, but they have a very high hit ratio and when they get it right it is amazing. GOTG3 and Spiderman NWH were amazing movies. Honestly even the bad movies are still okay. I have to admit several of the tv shows kind of suck and I hope they stop making them.
Why only make series, when you can make siries out of movies? right? I get it, there are fans who still follow and watch the movies and series, but for normal people, like me, wont watch all this.
They expect to make money, like they did with the big ones, but IMO it has gone far away from that, the only ones interested are the ones who like this content. In the end, its more like a machine making, where they have to make more movies and more.
The series would have been fine had they not been needed to understanding what is happening in the movies.
Cue me wondering where I’d missed that Elizabeth Olsen is a villain again in Dr Strange 2.
I can deal with watching a movie every few months on the off chance that some of them are entertaining popcorn guff, but I’m not sitting through endless shows where you see 10 hours of characters you don’t care about and their extended families you also won’t care about.
Don’t worry, I watched wandavision and still have no idea why the hell she was like that in MoM. It was extremely clear the writers of WV and MoM never once talked to each other, despite one being a somewhat continuation of the other.
MoM left such a bad taste in my mouth after being the only Phase 5(?) movie I was even remotely interested in that I haven’t bothered going to the theaters for anything marvel since.
I think people over estimate the Marvel brand. You can’t just keep unearthing dozens and dozens of niche characters and comics and expect them all to have an established fan base.
Think, Disney.
Ironman? Yeah no shit. It’s fucking Ironman.
Thor? Duh
Hulk? Yes, but get it right.
Antman? Pushing it but yeah he dope.
Captian America? Might as well said superman.
Gaurdians? Wonderful.
Captain Marvel. You lost me.
Eternals? …
It’s no mystery as to why not every franchise is going to be a hit. Just think about it.
When the first iron man movie was announced, the character was a solid b-lister
The guardians of the galaxy were even more obscure during a comparable timeframe and had a different roster.
So b-listers can be elevated by good movies and at the same time a-listers in the comics can bomb (Thor 2, Thor 4, non-mcu: Spiderman 3)
How well-known a character is in my opinion not the deciding factor for the success of a movie. I’d say the quality of a movie and the ability to build hype (which gets harder with what appears to be superhero fatigue) play a bigger role
Well, guardians of the galaxy had been very obscure, but I am not quite ready to call them e tier.
Remember blade? I didn’t even know it was a comic book character when its success paved the way.
Really, putting the blame on the obscurity of characters is making it too easy and ignores all the fuck-ups around the movies that in my opinion have had a big hand in making them fail (not an exhaustive list):
Taking the worst trait from comicbooks: requiring the audience to have consumed other titles (worst offenders here are probably Dr. Strange 2 and the Marvels which need Wandavision and Ms. Marvel to make sense)
Alienating the (mostly male) audience: a big offender there is She-Hulk
Using fan service and cameos as replacement for good writing
pacing issues and tonal backlash: Thor love and thunder suffered from giving emotional moments not enough time to breath in favour of cramming in more laughs
Also don’t overestimate how many moviegoers are also Comic Fans.
There is two things going on. You have opening night and you have total sales. Marvel has fully saturated Hollywood so they can’t just ride the superhero hype for opening night. If the quality of the film is up to par like you said it can build momentum. What Im getting at is when I look at a Marvel movie you have to offer me something other than a canned action movie. When it comes to interesting characters and stories the well is starting to run dry.
Hmm…maybe we should talk about Secret Wars and see if that doesn’t make a huge hit? Sure we want to see Marvel split into three people with quirky outtakes and cats that are aliens. But watching the Wrecking Crew take on the X-Men and Ultron fight Thor with Dr. Doom and Ultron facing off against Cap and the Fantastic 4 and Venom being born…nah. They are making it now, but it looks like they are going a different direction than the comic.
Through Dec. 6 at 6 p.m. PT, fans will be able to help choose the winners in all categories via online voting on thegameawards.com. In addition, for the second year in a row, fans can vote for the Game Awards nominees on the award show’s official Discord server (as well as join a live watch party on Dec. 7 and react to the winners in real time).
I think Baldur's Gate 3 is going to walk away with everything they are nominated for.
Yes cause new ideas are risky and scary to the executives. Oh no, a new concept might not rake in buckets of nostalgia money. Can’t risk people not liking something new, let’s regurgitate every possible franchise and property in the pursuit of unending growth of the box office revenue.
A US sting operation in cooperation with Thailand and Interpol caught him in 2008. He was eventually extradited and convicted in the US. In 2022 he was traded back to Russia in exchange for Brittney Griner.
Seeing as the article doesn’t really say much about the movie itself, just the logitistics and financials of making it:
with Cage reprising his role as arms dealer Yuri Orlov, and Skarsgard on board to play his son. In Lords of War, Orlov discovers he has a son, Anton, who is trying to top his father’s wrongs rather than stop them as he launches a mercenary army to fight America’s Middle East conflicts.
variety.com
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