Hyperreality,

Tarantino is overrated. You have to watch a lot of movies to come to this realisation, because otherwise you don't realise his movies are often in large part a collage of other movies. Movies which did what he does better. That means that it doesn't actually matter that Tarantino is overrated for most movie goers. More generally, this is why critics' opinions don't actually matter that much. They've watched too many movies and likely know too much about movies, to tell the average audience goer if they'll enjoy a movie.

Once you've watched a few thousand movies, and especially if you've ever studied film or read a few books about it, you'll often find you enjoy interesting but shit movies more, than very well made but unoriginal movies. People who truly love film, invariably aren't snobs. They enjoy absolute trash, they enjoy arty farty stuff. If someone has a related degree or even a doctorate or works in the industry, the likelihood is high that they're also a fan of B-movies. They don't need to pretend to be knowledgeable, because they are. A film snob will bore you with the details of a Tarkovski movie. A cinephile is more likely to bang on about 80s horror movies, lesbian vampire sexploitation movies, Albert Pyun's Cyborg, or Troma's The Toxic Avenger.

JonCecil,
@JonCecil@lemmy.world avatar

otherwise you don’t realise his movies are often in large part a collage of other movies.

Isn’t that the definition of filmmaking? All movies are just collages of influences, style, and form. All art is a remix on previous forms.

It’s okay to not like Tarantino, I don’t care much about that, but your argument doesn’t really hold up for me.

Hyperreality, (edited )

Almost all art is influenced by other art. But Tarantino very closely copies some scenes. Think a literal collage, made up of photocopied bits of another work, rather than a painting inspired or influenced by another work. Tarantino is honest about this.

It's a bit like Andy Warhol's Mona Lisa:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored_Mona_Lisa

Is that a great painting? I quite like it, it's iconic, but it's not the Mona Lisa, and Warhol is not Da Vinci.

People who haven't watched a lot of movies, think Tarantino is Da Vinci. That he created an iconic scene, like Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa.

People who have watched a lot of movies, realise he's Warhol. There's an iconic scene, but it's based on an original work, like Warhol's Mona Lisa.

There's nothing wrong with Warhol. Hell, it's ok to think that Warhol is a better artist than Da Vinci, think that Warhol's Mona Lisa is a better painting than the original Mona Lisa, art is subjective after all.

But it's a mistake to think Warhol is a genius, because he painted the Mona Lisa. He didn't. That was Da Vinci. If you're going think Warhol is a genius, you should think he's a genius because he took an existing work and manipulated it in a way that is genius.

Pooptimist,

Can you recommend some of these films that his collage films consist of?

Hyperreality, (edited )

It's been a while, and he references dozens of movies, so much so that you're watching his movies and think "wait, I've seen this before" and then you're distracted by the next scene you've seen before. But off the top of my head Vanishing Point, Foxy Brown, Lady Snowblood, Bruce Lee movies, and the Dirty Dozen.

But don't watch those. I probably enjoyed Vanishing Point the most, Bruce Lee in Game of Death is also fun, but often they have a few good scenes, the ones that Tarantino copied (sometimes poorly), but the rest of the movie can be a bit meh. Instead watch Oldboy, Lady Vengeance, In the Mood for Love, Infernal Affairs, Unforgiven, and (why not) Enter the Void. Not that those are my favourite movies, but they're movies that shouldn't bore you.

fireweed,

This is how I’ve come to view anime. You can tell the age of an anime fan by whether they’re enamored by the latest hit series or they sigh and go “this is just a remake of [old series from the 90s/00s].” I don’t give a shit how well made a series is; if the premise is “been there done that” without an original take or twist, or a tired and worn trope gets trotted out (looking at you, every fucking series that includes a scene where a female character comments enviously on another female character’s large breasts, yes Frieren that means you), then I’m insta-jaded on the series. At a certain point you realize anime relies heavily on its perpetual fandom refresh, with new fans replacing the ones who “aged out.” For me, I knew it had gotten bad when I was struggling to enjoy Cyberpunk because I felt like I had heard all the voices before in previous series.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

At a certain point you realize anime relies heavily on its perpetual fandom refresh, with new fans replacing the ones who “aged out.”

Not unique to anime, Hollywood has been remaking movies and TV shows 'for a new generation' forever. Anime is just following the same pattern.

macrocephalic,

It occurred to me why The Wiggles have been making so much money for so long: they only need to have enough material to entertain kids for a few years, and the ages that they’re targeting are the ones who love repetition anyway! Most entertainers need to constantly improve and evolve, but kids entertainers just need to enthusiastically do the same thing over and over.

yiliu, (edited )

I think one of the differences (at least when I watched anime way back in the early 00s) is that anime relies on a whole different set of tropes from Western movies and cartoons, and those tropes are unfamiliar (or were, anyway) to Western audiences.

When I started watching anime, it was hugely refreshing to be caught by surprise by plot twists and dialogue, and to see characters & themes that felt totally original.

But then you watch more anime, and realize…oh, they weren’t unique, they were totally stereotypical. You just didn’t know the stereotypes they were based on.

And before long you can see plot twists a mile away, the characters are predictable, and you can describe a new series as “basically X, but with some Y and monsters instead of robots”.

It’s the false promise of that initial discovery that makes the eventual realization that much more disappointing.

fireweed,

Agreed, the novelty of anime was a huge draw for me as well (especially since at the time there weren’t any anime-influenced Western cartoons). There are of course still standouts in anime that were revolutionary at the time and have since aged well (such as NGE and Cowboy Bebop, both of which are now over two decades old). There are also a few series that maybe weren’t masterpieces but still feel unique, as well as a handful that are cultural behemoths in and of themselves (like Gundam). But as with all media, the more you consume the more patterns emerge until the whole medium starts to feel tired.

Hyperreality, (edited )

At a certain point you realize anime relies heavily on its perpetual fandom refresh, with new fans replacing the ones who “aged out.”

Very good point.

Quazatron,
@Quazatron@lemmy.world avatar

I enjoy Tarantino movies. It all boils down to: are they solid fun entertainment or not, and to me the answer is yes.

Someone else did it better elsewhere? Sure, and he is very forthcoming about his influences. So if you’re a fan, you’ll likely find his sources and enjoy those too. Win win.

Hyperreality, (edited )

Oh, don't get me wrong. You're not wrong to enjoy them. They're still fun to watch.

It's just that IME they're less 'great' if you've watched a lot of the movies they're based on.

Also, Tarantino is an excellent stepping stone to discovering some great stuff. He's a true film nerd, so he knows his movies.

Quazatron,
@Quazatron@lemmy.world avatar

You might already know about his podcast “The Video Archives”, where he rants about old movies that may or may not have influenced him.

Hyperreality,

Thanks for recommendation. I'll add it to the list.

pimeys,

I would love to spend a night with him, sitting together at a kitchen table, him constantly ranting about movies and giving anecdotes, me pouring more wine…

I think this is the beauty of Tarantino.

macrocephalic,

I’m not sure I get your point, but I agree with your premise. Tarantino has made some ok movies but more often than not I find them boring, with poor acting and absurdly uninteresting story lines.

legendarydromedary,
@legendarydromedary@feddit.nl avatar

Do you have a recommendation for a book that’ll turn me into a cinephile?

Hyperreality, (edited )

Oh, wow. Old comment.

The easiest route to learning about movies, is to watch a lot of movies, and reading about the movie you've just watched. Wikipedia, a more in depth review, interviews with people who made the movie (not just the actors).

Google a top 100 list. Work your way through a few of them. Eg.

https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/greatest-films-all-time

They also have cool features. For example, Michael Mann's made a load of really cool action movies. Here's a feature on his movies they made:

https://www.bfi.org.uk/features/where-begin-with-michael-mann

Or here's famous critic Mark Kermode's top 10 of horror movies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdj_22hHRyM

Yes, he has a PhD and is a member of the British Academy of Film and Television Arts, the UK equivalent of the Academy of Motion Pictures. No, he's not a snob. Texas Chainsaw Massacre's in the top 10. So are some older classics, which are still good.

But if you want to read something, you could try:

Bordwell and Thompson. Film Art: An Introduction.

David A. Cook. A History of Narrative Cinema

legendarydromedary,
@legendarydromedary@feddit.nl avatar

Wow, thank you so much for all the recommendations! I sometimes feel like I don’t know how to watch certain kinds of movies (e.g., older movies, or more artsy movies). I hope reading up a bit will help me appreciate them more

xylogx,

My favorite Mad Max film is Thunderdome.

sarcasticsunrise,

That is definitely an unpopular opinion, mad respect though

xylogx,

It is hard to separate nostalgia from any rational opinions I have about this movie, since it came out when I was a randy and uninformed 15 years old. That said it had really interesting characters, a plot which I could follow and I especially liked the village of kids from the crashed plane. It had a Lord of the Flies vibe, but with a counter-narrative to the doom and gloom theme that humans will revert to barbarism, but also not an idealized, utopian vision of what would happen. Even Bartertown had an element of social commentary. It seemed to be offering different versions of how people would organize themselves if we wiped away current civilization and social structures. Which one is better? It does not directly make a judgement, but in some sense Max is fighting for what feel “right” to him in order to redeem himself for not being able to save his family and all the terrible things he has done in the wake of the disaster to survive. Honestly Thunderdome is one of my favorite movies.

MintyAnt,

Thunderdome is fun. But ranking it above fury road is a choice

xylogx,

/action Takes shovel and starts digging what appears to be his own grave.

I think Fury Road has amazing visuals, cinematography, practical effects, stunts and all that. But I really did not find the story of the characters interesting.Honestly it felt more like Fast and Furious than Mad Max.

CaptnNMorgan,

I upvoted because the first part made me laugh. But I wholeheartedly disagree. Fast and Furious is legitimately stupid. I thought fury road’s story was great. “Concubines of an abusive king in a post apocalyptic world escape his clutches and mad max helps fight off their pursuers” is as good a concept as any. It’s not citizen kane but it’s also not supposed to be. It’s an action/adventure movie with really good performances and incredible visuals. The fact that the story makes sense and has a lot of interesting moments (like Max’s PTSD or whatever those flashes of that kid were) means it can’t be compared to fast and furious.

xylogx,

That’s fair, I may have been overly dismissive with the plot, maybe I need to go back and give it a second look.

CaptnNMorgan, (edited )

Come back and let me know if you do. Even if you still don’t like it I’m curious how you would expand that opinion. When it comes to fury road I’ve been in an echo chamber. You’re the first person I’ve seen dislike it.

Edit: I hope at the very least you agree it’s not fast and furious though, I took that personally 😂

xylogx, (edited )

I went back and watched it and I see what you are saying about Furiosa and the concubines, it is a great device for setting up the chase. The chase then becomes the rest of the movie. Furiosa and Max have invincible plot armor during these chases and while I can appreciate the artistic skill in crafting these action scenes, I found sitting through them all a bit laborious.

The most interesting thing about the story to me was how Max and Furiosa went from straight up try to murder each other to becoming best buds. This happens so quickly and without a lot of explanation and to me that is a bit jarring. It seems to me the reason they dont spend more time on it is that the chase has already begun. And this to me is what keeps me from loving this this movie, they compromise on story in favor of chase and action scenes. While there is a lot to love about this movie, it is still not my favorite Mad Max movie.

CaptnNMorgan,

Nice! I don’t disagree with most of what you said about the story except for not liking it. I really enjoy the fast paced action. I also don’t mind the story taking a back seat when the action is done as well as it is in that movie.

It’s been a few years since I’ve watched it (maybe before COVID) but to from memory I didn’t think they became best friends right away. They were trying to kill each other and the only reason why they stopped was because they were basically on equal playing fields and if they continued fighting the hoard would catch up to them without either of them escaping. They already had a common enemy, the only reason they were fighting was because Max wanted to GTFO and leave them, while Furiosa was trying to protect her homies. Once Max figured out he wouldn’t be able to drive the truck anyway and Furiosa realized Max won’t try to hurt her friends is when they started opening up more. For me, that’s plenty.

Another story centric scene I liked a lot was when they ran into the old women from Furiosa’s tribe. I forget it’s people acting in that scene, the pain and longing in Furiosa’s eyes is so tangible and realistic. Plus “badass old ladies” is such an awesome device and I think they did a really good job at executing that.

Thanks for coming back with a well thought out opinion. Like I said earlier, you’re the first person I’ve seen dislike it, but everything you said makes complete sense. I think it’s just a matter of taste and what we grew up watching. I also haven’t watched the mad max movies with Mel Gibson, I tried watching the first one after I saw fury road and I don’t think I got 20 minutes in. It didn’t even feel apocalyptic at all, like weren’t there cops😂? I’m sure it’s great but I was expecting 80s style “war boys” and something fast paced like fury road. I might go back and try again because I just realized maybe it shows the world fall apart and I am interested in seeing that. I just thought it would already be post apocalyptic and it just seemed like 80s Australia to me, my favorite thing about fury road is the world around him being so goddamn interesting and unique, never saw anything like it when it came out. And haven’t seen anyone do it better so far.

What is your favorite mad max movie?

Kalladblog,
@Kalladblog@lemmy.world avatar

The Irishman - It was so highly recommended by many but I could only go through half the movie (which is 3h long) and despite having watched 90 mins I couldn’t bring myself to watch the second half or recap what happened in the first. Maybe too much flew over my head but it bored me too much and I couldn’t see the appeal at all.

Welt,

Scorsese does that, and he’s done it again. He needs a better editor who could shorten the runtime without losing the flow. Irishman was no Goodfellas but it was a decent story. Agree it wasn’t worth the slow pace though. I think attention spans are typically shorter these days and people expect a bigger payoff than they tend to get, outside of Marvel and porn.

Kalladblog,
@Kalladblog@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, I didn’t mind the slow pace that much but I couldn’t see what the movie was getting at as it seemed like a diary entry of a mafioso. The overarching elements throughout the first half somehow didn’t appeal to me. Marvel has been going downhill for quite a while but that’s a different topic

Welt,

Indeed. That’s what editing does to a film - it helps the story make sense. It’s the only thing that makes film an art form different from any other imo. Acting is art, cinematography is art, music/scoring is art. Directing is only art if it adds some new interpretation.

My joke about Marvel and porn is that their payoff is in some form of orgasm - special effects that wow audiences or literally make them ejaculate.

Presi300,
@Presi300@lemmy.world avatar

James Cameran’s avatar are good movies, both of them.

sbv,

The box office agrees with you.

dream_weasel,

I couldn’t even get halfway through the second one. The first is good, but I liked Dances with Wolves too.

roofuskit,
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

I think my opinion that Avatar is bad is the unpopular one. Critics and movie goers seem to overwhelmingly agree with you.

Presi300,
@Presi300@lemmy.world avatar

Cool effects and good looking cinematography make my brain happy

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

I like The Last Jedi.

That should be controversial enough.

Dudewitbow,

I didnt hate it, i just thought it was too predictable.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Not controversial. You like what you like.

Now, if you had said something like “The Last Jedi is a good movie.” Well, that’s demonstrably untrue.

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

Nah. Disagree. It is a good movie.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

It LOOKS good, I’ll give you that. The salt planet with the red soil was inspired.

It’s too bad Rian Johnson didn’t get an average 5th grader to proof read the script.

For example:

Leia and Rey have this touching scene where Leia gives her this tracking gem that will let her come back to the fleet no matter where they go.

Then, in the VERY SAME SCENE, the New Order pops out of hyperspace and another character says, out loud, “they tracked us through hyperspace???!? THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE!!!”

First - you literally just explained how yes, it was possible 2 sentences ago.

Second - Tracking devices have been a thing since the first Star Wars.

“TARKIN You’re sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship? I’m taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work.”

Stamets, (edited )
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

No, I stand by the fact that it is a good movie. Just because it has some flaws doesn’t make it universally bad. It’s not even close to the worst movie in the franchise either. Rise of the Skywalker grabs that without hesitation (That outright is a TERRIBLE movie) but the Prequels are all significantly worse in both writing and direction than The Last Jedi. Revenge comes a lot closer and I’d say personally is tied with TLJ on coherence. George Lucas was a moron. He never had a plan but people constantly think he did. Within all three of the OT movies alone he keeps changing everything from characters to lore. The Prequels got worse because he had no one to temper him. That being said, this is about TLJ.

That being said, there’s no issue with the writing there in my opinion. Leia and Rey do have a touching moment, sure, but that was in the Force Awakens not The Last Jedi. Leia also straight up never gives her that bracelet on screen because JJ Abraams is a complete and utter fuckwit. The scene in TLJ is between Finn and Leia where Leia reveals the beacon to Finn. He asks how Rey would find us and Leia and shows him. He says “A cloaked binary beacon.” She says “To light her way home.” You are right in that the scene does continue immediately into the First Order tracking them but how they tracked them was completely different. The beacon tells Rey (and only Rey) where Leia is when tracked. But Snokes vessel outright tracked them through lightspeed itself. They didn’t check the location of her and then jump to her. They actively followed the fleet through hyperspace itself without needing end coordinates. This was shown later in the movie and Leia directly says it by saying "They tracked us through lightspeed.* Something that hasn’t been shown to be possible on screen.

Yeah. They’re in the same scene but that wasn’t an accident. There wasn’t people behind the scenes who were that monumentally braindead. That scene was written that way with the purpose of making people think that the two would be related. Now I will give you that it’s not well written how they use that throughout the rest of the movie but it was put there on purpose. It was to make people doubt Leia (supporting him through the Poe arc, which worked way too well despite the fact that he did not have a singular leg to stand on with his entire argument despite everyone and their mother thinking he was right) and seem like the clear and obvious fix. They completely dropped the ball there, I admit. But overall I didn’t have a problem with that scene specifically. Just how they used that scene. Especially considering that tracking device was never actually used. Seriously. They added in and then never really used it. I don’t know if it ended up on the cutting room floor or what. The intention was clearly to fuck with the audience because Rey doesn’t ever find the Resistance using that bracelet. She meets up with Kylo on Snokes ship and Kylo is the one who gives her the coordinates.

The logical writing progress would have been to have Finn doing his thing (that arc, I grant you, is fundamentally worthless. The whole casino segment is a waste of screentime and only manages to produce a couple of light gags which all focus on BB-8) and Poe advancing on Leias position during his mutiny. He gets to Leia and gets the bracelet, destroys it and they jump to lightspeed. Everyone breathes a sigh of relief and then the First Order shows back up anyway, having tracked them. Holdo has a scene of “I told you so”, probably just by staring at him without saying anything, and then everyone freaks out on what to do. Leia is still out and Holdo is in command so she decides to try and ram them with the last lightspeed jump of the cruiser that they somehow manage to movie magic in the last second from all the X-wings, life support, yadda yadda. Forcing the rest to evacuate to Crait. Movie continues on as normal.

The issue to me isn’t that the writing didn’t make sense. It did. My issue was that they expected the audience to connect too many dots on their own. Ended up with people making different connections than were intended. Too many things were left on the cutting room floor while stuff like that Casino segment was allowed to go on for way too long. Or the kiss between Finn and Rose which was just fucking bizarre. So much so that even Finn in that scene has a look on his face like “What the fuck are you doing?” But with all the issues that TLJ has? I still find it to be a way more coherent story and more interesting one than either of the first two Prequels. And Rise of Skywalker because that movie is idiotic. Like a good script doctor could have fixed it and made it a decent movie but they made so many weird fucking decisions and bizarre writing choices that literally nothing about it makes sense. What pisses me off is people then blame Rian Johnson for the problems of Rise too when half of that was on the studio for not being able to make up their mind on directors/writers (that movie has way too many writers) and the other half falls squarely on the fanbase for reacting as strongly and negatively as they did to the first two sequels.

roofuskit,
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

91% of film critics agree it’s a good movie. That’s more than feel that way about Return of The Jedi. And way more than any of the prequels.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

91% of film critics didn’t want to be on the wrong side of a rabid fanbase. ;)

roofuskit, (edited )
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

The rabbid die hard Star Wars fans are very loud about hating that film.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, but the critics couldn’t have known that when they wrote the reviews.

GladiusB,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

Best film from the 9. Has a very good story and leaves you wondering what is going on. It was exactly what it needed to be and did it in some new ways with older call backs. Seriously such a good flick.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

The movie was alright.

“Somehow the emperor returned” was terrible.

meathorse,

All I could think of when he said that was, Princess Bunhead in Thumbwars: “I escaped somehow, let’s go!”

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

“Somehow the emperor returned” was terrible.

Okay. Rise of Skywalker is a walking pile of dog shit that has a wildly inconsistent take on everything. However. I have never had a single problem with that line and I am stunned so many people did. That was a rebel talking to other rebels. Why, exactly, would they know anything about how Palpatine returned? Dude was on a planet out in the middle of uncharted space. I literally cannot think of another way for them to tell each other that Palpatine returned without evoking vague imagery like that. They literally do not know what happened.

JPJones,

I can only speak for myself, but it wasn’t so much the line as the hand-waving that came with it. It was more that I found the line relatable, but you’re right about it being appropriate for the scene.

qantravon,

It’s not about the line itself, but more the sentiment behind it. The fact that the Emperor is just suddenly back without any buildup or hinting in the previous two movies is the problem.

Stamets, (edited )
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

First time I have ever seen that sentiment shared when people are talking about the line. Everytime it’s always people whining saying the line doesn’t make sense.

hemko, (edited )

The line is just funny because its a great tldr of the movie

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

It makes sense that the rebels didn't know about it. It doesn't make sense that the first the audience hears about it is that line. It feels lazy. They could have mentioned, in an offhand way, that the remnants of the Empire is pursuing cloning tech. Not only would this tie the final trilogy to the second trilogy. (First? Episodes 1-3, anyway) But it would also make that line make way more sense.

As as much as the Thrawn trilogy feels like bad fanfic, it does tie the whole clone wars/rebellion thing together, and features someone who comes back as a clone. I think it would have made a way better trilogy than what we got.

IvanOverdrive,

“The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE.

Because it makes zero sense. What possible reason would Palpatine reveal himself. It’s not just against logic, it’s against character. Yes, that particular line was a rebel talking to a rebel, but it shouldn’t have happened at all.

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

Against character? No. It wasn’t. You can make a lot of fair criticisms but to say that the galaxies biggest narcissist wouldn’t narcissist himself up further and be like GUESS WHAT BITCHES IM BACK? That’s just silly

IvanOverdrive,

Darth Sidious spent the first two movies cosplaying a senator. He is the titular Phantom Menace, as in “hidden”. Palplatine would absolutely stay hidden if everyone thought he was dead.

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

He stayed hidden during that period because it served him. He showed his true colors (literally) in the fight with Windu and dropped all pretense. He didn’t even try anymore in the Senate. Just went full authoritarian and made it all about himself. The next 20 years were no different. Fuck sakes, he was still cosplaying as a senator but openly running around being a Sith and taunting Jedi as seen in the clone wars show.

While he does keep a low profile when needed for his plans, he will kick open the doors and announce his presence when he is confident his plans have gotten to a certain point where he’s sure he cannot be stopped. Saying he would absolutely stay hidden 100% is to ignore a massive amount about the character.

fsxylo,

Because it was just saying out loud what hollywood writers have been doing on movies for a while. “somehow this movie happens. Just pay us.”

lightnsfw,

The problem is the movie didn’t show him returning. Instead they’re just like hey Palps is back! With absolutely no lead up or anything. They should have actually shown the message or whatever it was he sent out to get everyone all worked up in the first place. Then that line wouldn’t have sounded so cheap.

PP_BOY_,
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

I think this is more popular than you think. Most serious SW fans appreciate Rian Johnson’s attempt to take the franchise somewhere it had never been before, storytelling-wise, and the shitty retcon-fest that was ROS seems to have made it better by comparison. I’ve seen plenty of people online say it’s the best aged film out of the sequel films.

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

Love TFA. Love TLJ. Love parts of ROTS but it’s… rough. Not a movie I’ll choose to rewatch without a really strong reason. Most of it is so disjointed. You can tell there were so many ideas that were cut from the movie and things that were put together in ways that weren’t. Then there’s that fucking dagger…

Donjuanme,

Weird you could replace the phantom menace with rots, dagger with “podracer” and your have another completely true sentence!

Artyom,

If you rip out everyone involved in the casino planet, you have a really cool dark and surprising twist on the franchise. The only really interesting things in the whole trilogy happened in The Last Jedi

Tyrangle,

Remember when they snuck off on some escape ship to go get help for their crew in imminent danger and then decided to dick around on some horse racing casino planet? It’s like they completely forgot why they were there. I thought TLJ had some neat ideas but I don’t know how anyone can overlook that weird loss of urgency in the middle of the film. It’s like your house is on fire and your family is trapped upstairs, so you run over to a neighbor’s house to call the fire department, but you discover that they got some dog fighting thing going on in the backyard so you decide to go deal with that first, then you call the fire department but it turns out the dispatcher was in cahoots with the arsonist who started it in the first place, and then you return home with your tail between your legs and your mom didn’t even know you had left. The whole second act could have been a dream sequence and it wouldn’t have changed a thing.

roofuskit, (edited )
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

Liking a film that 91% of critics gave a positive rating is controversial?

AgentGrimstone, (edited )

Batman Begins and Dark Knight Rises were boring. Batman & Robin was better than those two.

roofuskit,
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

Buried the lede on this one. I was like, “ok, I can see that.” But you got me in the end.

yamanii,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Cloud Atlas was good if you paid attention, didn’t notice the face cgi in theaters.

ElPussyKangaroo,

I was under the impression that this thread was for unpopular opinions… 😐

I thought people thought it was a philosophical masterpiece. And I thought it was garbage. I understood fuckall. And I was watching it at my peak time during the day on the appropriate amount of caffeine to stimulate my brain. Nothing.

I may be dumb. Maybe. But I didn’t understand shit, that’s for sure.

fireweed,

There’s a fan recut that takes all the time skip scenes and puts them in chronological order that’s much more straightforward. Personally I can’t imagine watching it that way, but I also refuse to acknowledge The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya except in broadcast order. There’s definitely a large contingent that prefer both these media in chronological order though, so you’re not alone.

ElPussyKangaroo,

I think you’ve replied to the wrong comment, mate.

Funnily enough, I have spoken about Haruhi quite a bit 😂.

fireweed,

My comment was referring to Cloud Atlas while comparing it to Haruhi as another piece of media with dramatic (and controversial) time skips.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Ohhhhh. Makes sense.

I’ve watched Haruhi as well 😂. I have a whole rant on the Haruhi community… Here 😂.

fireweed,

As someone who watched Haruhi back when it was originally broadcast, it’s amazing that people are still discussing the series seventeen years later. In an era when an anime’s impact seems to only last a single season before the fandom moves on, this is especially impressive. Haruhi deserves to stick around, if for no other reason than its historic value; it’s difficult to describe to younger fans just what an impact the anime made on the scene when it dropped.

ElPussyKangaroo,

I feel the same way about so many shows. They’re truly gems and the world is missing out.

finthechat,
@finthechat@kbin.social avatar

Broadcast order is the true way. Chrono is for people who don't have an attention span.

Welt,

Really? Will have to give it another chance

quams69, (edited )

The weird part for me is that they did cgi for a face feature that exists in humans already; when it came out me and my friends joked that the lead, with cgi, looks exactly like him. It’s so strange.

roofuskit,
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

The Wachowskis have made exactly one good movie. And it’s not Cloud Atlas.

DLSantini, (edited )

The original Star wars trilogy was overrated, the sequels were underrated, and I’d rate them all to be equally mediocre.

ouRKaoS,

The best thing about Star wars is the world building. The expanded universe with the books, comics, and cartoons contain much better stories than any of the movies.

Blackmist,

The Empire Strikes Back is the only one that I would say is a great movie.

mnemonicmonkeys,

I agree with everything in this thread

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

A New Hope is solid. You can find blemishes, and they’ve torn new ones with the “special editions” that just cram more CGI shit on the screen for no reason, but as a classic Hero’s Journey movie A New Hope works rather well. It was amazing for its time; I mean, a fun Sci-Fi movie? With special effects this good? It was a cultural phenomenon for a reason.

The Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie that has been made, which is why when most people quote Star Wars they’re actually quoting Empire. The characters are at their deepest, the setting feels the most magical, and the Luke/Vader saber fight is utterly gripping.

Return of the Jedi was the beginning of the “Lucas is a genius who can do no wrong, do everything he says” era. The “let’s put a funny thing in the background” starts happening. We get Jabba’s hedonism palace with the droid torture room, Bikini Leia, Ewoks, and lightning hands Palpatine. This would only get worse by the time the prequel trilogy is made, Lucas gets to make whatever he wants without question.

dumpsterlid, (edited )

Not only that but the method of structuring a narrative that Star Wars popularized (the whole hero’s journey crap) has gone on to completely infect movie storytelling.

The Jedis in Star Wars are super boring, the battle for good and evil with the dark side is also super boring, shallow and uninteresting… the only thing that saves Star Wars are the set design and costume/alien designers who filled up the periphery of boring hero’s journey stories with a vibrant weirdness.

TBi,

I watched and enjoyed the star wars movies but I never thought of them as great.

Karyoplasma,

The Force Awakens would have been a 10/10 movie if it ended with the lightsaber fight on that forest planet. But no, they had to slog through the bullshit Death Star 2 arc and ruin it.

roofuskit,
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

The sequels were rated quite well by critics, except for the final one. The Last Jedi even got a better rating than Return of the Jedi from the originals.

I agree that overall the original Star Wars films are overrated.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Stanley Kubrick never made an original film, they are all adaptations of other creators original works.

roofuskit,
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

And yet, they are fantastic films. Your statement is not really an opinion, it’s a fact. My statement is an opinion.

serpineslair,

Texas Chainsaw Massacre (the original) was a terrible film. The only reason people say it is the greatest classic horror film is because of nostalgia. The acting was horrible and it wasn’t scary in the slightest (I understand it was probably for the time).

thisbenzingring,

its a terrible movie but its a fucking amazing film.

if you ever watch it again, look at its edits and specifically the gore. You never actually see Leatherface inflicting any damage on someone. It’s always a trick of the mind that you see the violence but it never actually happens on the screen.

I agree its kinda lame but it is actually an amazing creation.

serpineslair,

Wasn’t there a scene where you saw someone’s leg sliced into with the chainsaw?

thisbenzingring,

They used pigs blood and maybe there’s a cutting but it would have been framed in a way that it just makes you believe it’s someone’s leg.

I studied film in college and that film was one of our subjects because of the diy and extremely low budget it had while creating something that is still considered peerless

TheEighthDoctor,

Same for the original Japanese Ringu

JimVanDeventer,

I only saw it this year and wasn’t expecting much, but the cinematography is gorgeous.

macrocephalic,

The original Star Wars movies were probably really good and genre defining in the late 70s, but they’re just boring and campy now.

tacomama,

I accept this. I saw these when they premiered- like lining up outside the theatre and everyone cheering, etc. That was in middle school and high school and it was a true experience at the time. So, I’ll always have a soft spot for them, but you’re basically correct.

surewhynotlem,

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug

mriormro,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

Old things used to be good, now they’re not so good if you compare them with the new things.

I_Fart_Glitter,

Same with original Star Trek. I love Trek, but that shit is unwatchable. I read the novels to get the context to better enjoy TNG and after, I can’t hand the godawful sound effects and William Shatner’s smug mug. How are there so many episodes based around how “attractive” that man is?!

hyperactive,

Off topic but TIL there’s no sort by controversial option on Lemmy. :(

mbp,
@mbp@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

The true way to get the unpopular opinions

Chastity2323,

There is on Voyager github.com/aeharding/voyager

mostNONheinous,

I won’t watch SNATCH because people wouldn’t shut the fuck about it for like 10 years. It may be great, I wouldn’t know because I won’t watch it.

thisbenzingring,

Things are popular for reasons and being cynical about it and prejudging something based only on its popularity is limiting your exposure to the world.

Its better to have an informed opinion then a cynical ignorance.

mostNONheinous,

The notion that missing a single guy Ritchie flick is limiting my exposure to the world is laughable. I’m gonna add another 10 years on now.

roofuskit,
@roofuskit@lemmy.world avatar

Most of his other films are better, check them out and then watch Snatch if you still haven’t.

Couldbealeotard,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

I do this same thing. It’s there a name for it? Peer defiance?

Bluebanrigh,

Me too, when people recommend me tv shows.

On paper they’re series that I would like, but the recommendations years old and I still haven’t watched them.

AquaTofana, (edited )

I think it’s just called you guys being contrarian

mostNONheinous,

You could say this if I behaved that way with every recommendation, but it is how something is recommended that is the issue here. Context is key.

mostNONheinous,

Demand avoidance is a thing, I specifically hate it when people are all “BRO, how have you not seen this, it’s the shit. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE MISSING!” So I just stay away as a fuck you I guess.

Couldbealeotard,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

I find the people who do the whole “how have you not seen […]” Have not matured enough too have the awareness that other people have different life experiences. Lack of empathy.

InvisibleShoe,
@InvisibleShoe@lemmy.world avatar

Mulholland Drive is total garbage

spirinolas, (edited )

It’s my favorite film! But I understand it’s not an easy first watch.

It took me years to go back to it. I was taking a class in film narrative and remembered that weird movie I had seen years ago and suddenly I started getting the plot (what little I remembered).

I rewatched it and I was mind blown. There’s a reason it’s considered one of the biggest achievements in film.

I don’t like to smuggly say “it’s not for everyone”. But I’ll say it again, it’s not an easy watch at all. Hardly uncommon for David Lynch. The first time I watched it I didn’t understand what had happened but I always had this calling “there’s something there I missed”. If you feel that way read a bit about it and give it another shot.

thisbenzingring,

My impression of the movie is that half is the “reality” happening while the other half is a sexual fantasy while she is masturbating. When she can’t get off the nightmare of her reality crumbles and she can’t go on. Its a movie that needs to be seen through a mind fog, like most David Lynch movies. Once you allow him to dictate the rules of how the movie is going to presented to you, then you see the beautiful things that he creates with film.

Boiglenoight,

Silence of the Lambs is not a scary film.

thisbenzingring,

but its not a scary film, its a psychological horror thriller film

bullshitter,

Yes , thanks.

mr_satan,
@mr_satan@monyet.cc avatar

Definetly not scary, but I really liked it.

TAG,
@TAG@lemmy.world avatar

I would call it a suspense thriller, not a horror film.

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