I remember reading through that thread when it came out and those are extremely worrying points. Wayland has extremely deep core issues. #2 there alone is horrible.
There are and were alarm bells ringing all around btw with Wayland. From a software developing perspective the approach is terrible. You cannot solve super complex problems by throwing away 30 years worth of code and redoing everything from scratch. You’ll just run into the exact same issues again. Which no, haven’t gone away as the technology advanced as many people would like to believe, we’re still using displays and networking and keyboards and mice.
There is a lot of legacy in X but there’s also a lot of accumulated experience and battle-hardened code. The obvious path would have been to keep the good and remove the bad.
Wayland will eventually since those issues but it will take just as long as it took X, because that’s what happens when you start everything from scratch again.
This is filling me with deja vu because it’s exactly what some of us went through with X, trying to piece together a working desktop out of dozens of pieces. But when you point that out you get “ha ha grandpa that’s old stuff, this new stuff won’t have that problem because [insert magic here]!”
Keep in mind that when Wayland started it was supposed to be a mini-server, to be used for the login screen only. Then the idea came to make it usable for stable, controlled and simple devices where there isn’t a lot of user configuration or hardware variation.
How it got from there to “let’s use it for everything on the Linux desktop and ditch X” I’ll never understand.
Which no, haven’t gone away as the technology advanced as many people would like to believe, we’re still using displays and networking and keyboards and mice.
Do you mean not initially designed to support? Because at least for displays and networking (in the sense of being able to send X events over the network) that seems wrong, a network capable display server is basically X’s entire purpose? And for keyboards and mice there are extensions now, so x.org as a standard now very much supports those by design. Actually to my knowledge Wayland basically just forked their keyboard standard, the X Keyboard Extension.
XOrg is designed so a central server (mainframe) sends and receives data from smaller terminals, and that not only includes a heap of devices that haven’t been in use since the 90s it also has a ton of features that nobody uses. (See: X native fonts, X native widgets, X driver model…)
X’s way of handling events and sending draws to clients as such is somewhat convoluted. Once you start to really dig into it, it’s amazing how much people managed to stack on top of it until today.
Besides, modern day X over Network is a somewhat niche and possibly broken function
I mean xwayland is the best supported X implementation today, and will only get better. You’re not ditching everything when you maintain backwards compatibility.
Yeah no, generally you just copypaste the software website’s instructions. Many programs can be installed through the app store (or equivalent install commands) but a lot of aoftware you just gotta copypaste the code. Many also just provide an inataller.
The meme about linux software being much easier to install is true in some cases, but mostly bullshit. even if its just sudo apt install vlc you generally still want to check the website to make sure its the best way, or you end ip with an out of date version.
Updating software on linux is better pretty much automatic without annoying popups most of the time though.
Yeah, well, linux is great, but people seem to rarely give the full disclaimer. So people end up disappointed, go back to windows and end up thinking you need to be hackerman to be able to use it. Or they do end up learning everything, think they’re hackerman and tell everyone in the world how linux is just sooo much better and easier because theyve been using it since 1969 or whatever.
My view: Your grandma could comfortably work on linux. It’s when you need stuff beyond the most basic aoftware that there’s a much steeper learning curve than windows. You fuck up, your system implodes. Once you’re balls deep into computers, lets say software development, linux becomes easier and more useful again. Its that middle group of average users who have the hardest time.
This is not the only way to install apps but as a Linux user there will be times when you will need to use the terminal. Might as well know that from now.
The instructions they gave are really simple and straightforward. If you struggle with that, you may want to learn a bit about the terminal.
But since you’re on Ubuntu there is a much easier way: go to Mullvad downloads page and download the deb file. Double click it and the Ubuntu App Store should open and install it. If not, open the App Store and search for gdebi and install it. Now right click the deb you downloaded, and click “open with…” and choose gdebi from the list.
It should check dependencies and give you an “install” button. Click that and wait for it to finish. Then simply launch Mullvad as normal.
In general on Linux you install apps by looking in the distro repo: either by searching the App Store or by using the terminal.
To do it from the terminal type:
‘sudo apt update’. Enter your password.
After it’s updated type 'apt search [name of app] and press enter. It will give you a list of apps with that name. Eg apt search lollypop (a music player). Then if you see it listed, you know it’s in the repo.
To install it type ‘sudo apt install lollypop’ and press enter. It will tell you how large it is and if you want to install it. Type “y” and press enter. It will finish it in a few seconds.
Done. Launch the app as normal.
There is also something called Flatpak’s which you can get from flathub.com You will also find instructions there on how to install flatpak on your system but typing a few commands.
Welcome to Linux. You’ll either embrace and love it or abandon it.
The average Windows user doesn’t know what a terminal is, let alone use it. Whereas in Linux every user knows what a terminal is and has used it at least a handful of times.
Some distros don’t have an app store, just the terminal.
And if you read a few paragraphs more, there’s a Download and install the app section too, rather than add their repos. Which is what the OP wanted anyway…
It’s not difficult. I’ve installed several apps that way already. I just don’t like blindly following instructions while having zero understanding of what I’m actually doing here. Also, in this case the instructions are unhelpful because nowhere it tells me to install curl first and because of me not having it the first command just comes back with an error.
The way to solve that problem is to read the commands and look up what they do. The installation method they describe is pretty standard and inoffensive. And provides automatic updates. The commands used aren’t complicated and they’re some of the system fundamentals for Debian/Ubuntu systems so it’s a good idea being familiar with them.
In the time it took you to write this shit post and respond to all the comments you could have spent a couple of minutes reading and educating yourself on the process. It’s legit pretty simple especially if you’re willing to do a little research.
cURL is a very commonly used program to download individual files from the command line and worth installing to have it around in the future.
sudo apt update
sudo apt install curl
The first command tells your package manager to update its list so you ask for the latest version. You can skip it if you’ve already updated today. The second command tells your package manager to install cURL.
This will happen every now and then, especially when building a package from source. You won’t have some common utility that the documentation writer assumed you had, and you will need to find what package provides it and install the package.
Yes people would assume you have curl. Curl is often used to install programs. And curl is definitely one of the things that can do malicius things this way. So you are right to be hesitant to use commands that you don’t understand. Most Linux users have forgotten how hard it is to learn the first stuff with no preaquired knowledge.
If you have googled “what is curl and how is it used” you may have found some relevant info.
I have given up on Linux because installing was hard in the past
There are some tools that make installing software easier. Like “appimage” files that are single files that (after you make executable) are completely self contained.
Flatpacks and snaps have an “store” like experience.
.deb files are also sometimes simple (also need to be made executable) (depends on the distro)
Have you guys fixed your graphics stack to keep up with current High-DPI and HDR displays yet? No? LOL happy new year of the eyesore desktop to you too
What are you even going on about? Proprietary Nvidia graphics drivers updates are released at basically the same time as the windows version, and amd has always worked flawlessly. I have 2 2k 144hz monitors with HDR and both work and look just as good on Linux as on Windows.
The only issues with high dpi monitors is that some apps don’t both detecting the monitor dpi and need to be adjusted manually… but there are very few that that is still an issue for, and windows has the same problem because it’s an app problem not an OS problem
Some apps? “Very few” apps? Buddy, you either aren’t running much software at all or are delusional. Entire Desktop Environments to this day have ass fractional scaling that can’t render things correctly without eating up resources and making them look horribly blurry. Fonts look terrible and have bad kerning even with all anti-aliasing settings correctly set. Even colors are dull across the board by default. Not to mention there will always be random glitches and your graphics card fan will always be on full power unless you turn it off because of shit throttling even with official Nvidia drivers.
Just try using browsers and file managers between Linux distros and Windows on default settings on medium-tier, 5-year-old machines side-by-side, the difference will be starkly visible - from responsiveness and animations to general look quality.
Why come into the Linux community just to start an argument? It’s not 2010 anymore, the brand faction internet tribalism is so bloody tiring these days.
It’s not just to start an argument. I have tried so, so hard to shift to Linux. Nuked perfectly working setups just to take the jump to the “free” side (including Arch, btw).
It all only ended in frustration and disappointment. So everytime people toot “year of the Linux desktop” it only makes me laugh.
Stating problems you’ve had as if they are things that will effect everybody makes you looks very silly. I could do the same thing by stating that Windows is garbage because it doesn’t boot with rebar enabled and it bluescreens non stop. It’s also consistently slower to boot, open any software, and less responsive overall. The default file manager is also pathetic, and the software management is frustrating.
It sounds like you had some significant problems with your setup, but the way you’re describing it, it sounds like you didn’t properly troubleshoot it.
GNOME and Plasma both have great fractional scaling support with Wayland. I have never had whatever problems you’re describing with font rendering. On my machine it looks slightly better than windows, and slightly worse than MacOS. I used an Nvidia GPU with Linux for 4 years and never had any performance problems with the official driver.
Please realize your experience isn’t the be-all and end-all that decides whether using Linux can be a good experience.
This is for real the Linux desktop year for me, went through the switch just before the new year. Had to reinstall a couple times but no big deal, and I get to learn as well.
Not sure if out-of-the-box distros are now that user friendly yet or not, but I remember getting Ubuntu running several years ago was frustrating (no sound, bad sound quality etc) and now running EOS was pretty smooth. Pretty sure something like Mint will be user friendly enough for the general population.
Flatpak is the primary way that apps can be installed on Fedora Silverblue (for more information, see flatpak.org). Flatpak works out of the box in Fedora Silverblue…
Just seems very odd to distrohop for one main reason (flatpak in this scenario), without even checking if that reason is available in your current distro…which it is, out of the box.
Yeah, I’m not saying it’s hard, just illogical. To me, it came across similar as: “I’m moving to this other distro because they have Firefox.” Your current distro also has Firefox, so why are you moving again?
For sure. I just meant that it’s just putting in a command and waiting for a bit, so I could understand doing it on a whim more than if it was a full reinstall. Doesn’t make any sense but it’s also not a big deal.
I’ve been using Silverblue as my main computer for a couple years now and love it. It just always works and is super solid. I layered on distrobox for any other software so I can pretty much run any Linux software ever needed and it’s cleanly organized in containers.
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