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Chewy7324, in Wlroots 0.17.0 released
  • wp-fractional-scale-v1 to allow clients to submit buffers with a non-integer scale factor matching the output.

This hopefully means Sway and similar will support real fractional scaling for applications, not just the compositor fractional scaling we already have.

But I don’t know much about application support. Qt and Electron might support it; GTK 4 does not, possibly in a future version).

wayland.app/protocols/fractional-scale-v1

  • tearing-control to allow clients to opt-in for tearing page-flips.

That’s great for those who need it. Anyone with a modern display should probably just use variable refresh rate (vrr), but even today some devices don’t support it. E.g. there’s been 240Hz laptops without vrr.

wayland.app/protocols/tearing-control-v1

Atemu,
@Atemu@lemmy.ml avatar

GTK 4 does not, possibly in a future version

That would be news to me. Has GTK finally managed to switch away from using actual real hardware pixels as its base unit for measurement?

Chewy7324,

I was sure I read that GTK wants to support true fractional scaling in GTK 5, but I can’t find a source to it. So it was probably just speculation. As far as I understand it, it would require big changes to GTK because everything is build with integer scaling in mind.

At least GTK 4 already has support for this fractional scaling protocol.

www.phoronix.com/news/GTK-4.11.1

independantiste,
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

At least it does not look blurry with fractional scaling enabled, which is the biggest issue IMO. The current hacky way is not ideal I agree but at least it is functional

padook, (edited ) in Mandrake Linux 10.0, from 2004. They still work too. Had to buy them on disc, slow dialup internet in those days.
@padook@feddit.nl avatar

Oooh memories, I can’t remember the version number but mandrake 10 must have been close to my first linux distro!! …it.didn’t.go.well.

d3Xt3r,

Mine was Mandrake 6. RedHat 5.2 was my first, and I was surprised how much easier Mandrake was in comparison. But the one that really wowed me was SuSE (before they became OpenSUSE), I was blown away how polished and user-friendly it was. Windows 9x/ME felt like a joke in comparison at time. And some people still claim Linux isn’t user friendly… and I’m like, bruh it’s been user friendly for about three decades now…

CheeseToastie, in Mandrake Linux 10.0, from 2004. They still work too. Had to buy them on disc, slow dialup internet in those days.

I got my first copies of Linux through magazines that came with sample CDs. Photoshop too

pastermil, in Wlroots 0.17.0 released

How would wlroots relate to the compositors such as KWin & GNOME Shell?

russjr08,
@russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.net avatar

As far as I know, it wouldn’t - I do not believe KWin nor Mutter is built on top of wlroots.

FarLine99,

They are not

Laser, (edited )

As pointed out, they don’t use it. However, there are loose plan for KWin to migrate to wlroots one day, and in fact a hostile fork exists that is exactly that (KWinFT). So a compositor can make use of wlroots to implement Wayland functionality, sway for example does exactly that, unsurprisingly since they’re sister projects by the same author.

It should be noted that libwayland (mentioned in the patch notes) also exist, and wlroot actually depends on it, so I guess libwayland is like the lower level stuff while wlroots saves you some work to integrate libwayland into your compositor; the motto is “Pluggable, composable, unopinionated modules for building a Wayland compositor; or about 60,000 lines of code you were going to write anyway.”

ultra,

Just a note, you said that libwayland is a higher level abstraction for libwayland.

Laser,

Thanks, I corrected it

starman,
@starman@programming.dev avatar

libwayland is like the lower level stuff while libwayland saves you some work to integrate libwayland

LeFantome,

Makes sense. You have to factor in libwayland though.

Chewy7324,

wlroots is a library that can be used to implement a compositor like KWin or mutter (GNOME). In practice wlroots is used in Sway, Hyprland, river, and more.

What wlroots-based compositors, KWin, and mutter share is that they implement a similar set of the display protocol Wayland. E.g. KWin and Sway implement the Wayland extension wlr_layer_shell

luthis, in Using cgroups to limit I/O · André Carvalho

I just discovered cgroups, so it’s cool to see some practical examples here.

Looks like not far off having easily managed load-balancing for I/O which is pretty cool.

Kecessa, in But Windows 11 is so good!!11!1!

I mean, if it was accidental then… Just turn it off and boot back into Linux? You realise you can just turn it off while it’s downloading updates, right? Heck, you can even pause updates long term if you want! 😱 Crazy!

emly_sh_,
@emly_sh_@sh.itjust.works avatar

As someone who has turned windows off while it’s updating, don’t do it. You might be lucky enough to only have some files deleted

turbowafflz,

I did that once, the registry stopped working. Turns out it can’t boot without that

Kecessa,

I never said to do it while it’s in the middle of changing stuff, but if you just booted you can turn it off and nothing will happen because worst case it will just be downloading without installing, as someone else mentioned, once updates are installed you can even turn off without applying updates if you want and you can also tell it to only download and not install unless you tell it to or not download at all.

Aatube,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

If you're going that way, Windows is not going to suddenly start updating when you simply boot it. You have to willingly click "Update and Shutdown/Restart" instead of "Shutdown/Restart", assuming your computer even finished downloading the update.

sir_reginald,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

I have a Windows 10 partition on a second machine. I have disabled automatic updates in the options and I never click “Update at restart” or anything. Yet, whenever I need to boot into Windows it decides to automatically start updating itself.

I guess that I use it infrequently so there are always updates available, but it shouldn’t force them on me when I’ve specifically disabled them.

Ghoelian,

Also, when you choose either of the update or restart/shutdown options, it actually tries to restart, (for me) always boots back into linux because that’s my default. When I’d eventually boot back into Windows, it just continues installing the update I’d long forgotten about.

Pretty happy to be rid of that mess entirely now.

ptz, (edited ) in Roc Toolkit 0.3: real-time audio streaming over the network
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Ooh. I’ve been using Snapcast for my multi-room audio, but this seems more versatile. Going to check it out for sure.

Have you used it? Curious about latency. Snapcast has about a 1 second buffer which makes it not ideal for anything beyond music casting.

chtk,
@chtk@feddit.nl avatar

I’m currently using ROC on my laptop and desktop. Latency is low enough to not be noticeable when playing video on my laptop and streaming audio to the desktop. Audio can get a bit choppy if my laptop is on WiFi. But that is most probably because the signal between the repeater on the second floor and my DSL modem on the ground floor is pretty meh.

ptz, (edited )
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Latency is low enough to not be noticeable when playing video on my laptop and streaming audio to the desktop.

That’s basically my use case. Want to use my HTPC as the source and some RasPi’s or repurposed thin clients as the sinks - pretty much what I do now with MPD and Snapcast. I absolutely do not want to have to mess with audio offset settings in Emby to keep the dialog in sync. lol

I’ve only skimmed the docs (holidays are a huge time sink haha), but do you know if it can do one-to-many or just one-to-one? Like, can I have one source and multiple receivers? The docs seemed to imply it could do one-to-many, but I didn’t get to dive into them deep enough.

chtk,
@chtk@feddit.nl avatar

Sorry for the late reply.

I don’t know if ROC can do multicast on its own. I use the Pipewire source and sink. And I only do the one-to-one setup.

I did some tests in Pipewire:

Configuring multiple sinks is possible on a machine. They simply present as additional output devices. So if you want to switch audio to another source, that should be doable by switching to another output device.

Doing one-to-many: I don’t know if that is possible with ROC alone. You might be able to do something with Pipewire graphs

Chewy7324,

I haven’t used it but especially the part about guaranteed latency over wireless is interesting.

IHeartBadCode, in Mandrake Linux 10.0, from 2004. They still work too. Had to buy them on disc, slow dialup internet in those days.
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

I see your discs. Here’s my Mandrake 7 discs.

BlueEther,
@BlueEther@no.lastname.nz avatar

Mandrake 7 was my first distro as well i think, early 2000…

Quackdoc, in Roc Toolkit 0.3: real-time audio streaming over the network
@Quackdoc@lemmy.world avatar

i’ve been using sonobus lately and it’s been pretty good, I had latency issues when I tested the android app a long time ago, ill have to test it again

avidamoeba, (edited ) in The Linux Kernel Preparing To Drop Infrastructure For Old & Obsolete Graphics Drivers - Phoronix
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

So much for the legendary hardware support of Linux!

Edit: Forgot “/s”, but look at this lively discussion!

Lettuceeatlettuce,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

Lol you haven’t upgraded your GPU since the late 90’s?

db2,

You know there’s a whole hobby of keeping older hardware running, right?

Lettuceeatlettuce, (edited )
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

You know that you can use older versions of the Linux kernel, right?

db2,

You know security vulnerabilities are a thing, right?

patatahooligan,
@patatahooligan@lemmy.world avatar

Linux 6.1 will be maintained for another 10 years by the CIP. The hardware in question will be almost 40 years old at that point. I don’t have a violin small enough for users losing free support after 40 years from maintainers who most likely don’t even own the same hardware to test on…

interdimensionalmeme,

On the other hand, they were probably unchanged for decades. Did anything really change, or is this just a case of we need to remove 500k lines of code, what is most useless ? Let’s cut that.

In other words, removed because it’s a KPI to remove lines, and this makes number go up.

saigot, (edited )

So if it’s been unchanged for decades then you can just add it yourself and recompile the kernel. Elsewhere you argue that you can’t just add old drivers to a newer kernel, which implies these drivers require some nontrivial amount of maintaince. Which is it.

patatahooligan,
@patatahooligan@lemmy.world avatar

Keeping code around isn’t free. Interfaces change, regressions pop up. You have to occasionally put in work just to keep it in a working state. Usually in cases like this there are discussions on the mailing list about who is going to maintain them and nobody volunteers. You can do that if you’re so passionate about keeping these drivers around.

interdimensionalmeme,

They were fine all this time, what changed suddenly ? I bet it’s the security nerds stirring shit, making it all a liability and easier deleted than fixed.

radioactiveradio, (edited )

You know there’s nothing to gain by hacking those old systems, right?

Lettuceeatlettuce,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

I know what you mean, I’m so pissed that my 1978 Space Invaders arcade machine doesn’t even support WiFi-6.

BeardedGingerWonder,

Fuckin a

Bitrot,
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

If only they contributed to the kernel maintenance workload.

axum,
@axum@kbin.social avatar

You're free to use legacy kernels or run your own fork.

demonsword, (edited )
@demonsword@lemmy.world avatar

I doubt any hardware 25+ years can even run a modern vanilla linux kernel, you’d have to compile it yourself with some serious customization for it even work

KingThrillgore, in The Linux Kernel Preparing To Drop Infrastructure For Old & Obsolete Graphics Drivers - Phoronix
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh no, the kernel will lose a whopping 200k SLOC!

jackpot,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

SLOC?

unique_hemp,

source lines of code

pastermil,

Out of 27 million lines of code.

Killing_Spark,

Which makes it 1% total. Which is a lot for one single change

MonkderZweite,

Most of it in drivers.

You know, like the light novel with 12GB, 11.9GB of it in png.

db2, (edited ) in The Linux Kernel Preparing To Drop Infrastructure For Old & Obsolete Graphics Drivers - Phoronix

so any remaining users have a few more years to get a new graphics card.

Anyone running a Voodoo is doing so because they want to. Dropping support is bullshit.

NaoPb,

I agree.

conciselyverbose,

Then pay someone to do the work.

Supporting obscure trash isn't worth development time.

Nougat,

Voodoo cards are worth money to the right people. They're used in a bunch of coin-op arcade games.

ra1d3n,

And these machines are going to upgrade to kernel 6.8?

jackpot,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

why on earth do arcade machines need kernel updates? the feds gonna hack into the highscores lmfao

snaptastic,

Do those arcades run Linux?

Nougat,

I bet you're fun at parties.

snaptastic,

Seems like you’re annoyed that I pointed out that what you were saying was irrelevant? And so you reply with more irrelevant crap (on a very nerdy, not-fun-at-parties internet forum for Linux discussion)? Let me know if I got that wrong.

Nougat, (edited )

Somebody mentioned Voodoo cards, I had a bit of information that related to that. That's how discussions work; they kind of go where they go.

But I'll make absolutely sure to get your permission before I comment again.

falsem,

Volunteer to maintain the code?

DrRatso, (edited )

So just don’t upgrade the kernel

db2,

Then 0-day can become known vulnerability. Yay?

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

What are you doing that is so crucial to keep a 20+ year old piece of consumer hardware connected to the internet? Honest question

db2,

To answer the question as given:

lyonsden.net/getting-an-amiga-a1200-online-part-1…

hackaday.com/…/apple-ii-web-server-written-in-bas…

Because. The answer is because.

And if you have a machine that is more capable than those by default then the OS software artificially disabling its use is pretty fucked up.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

If you’re doing it for the memes then you don’t really need to worry about malware. Your machine is probably too old for anything that’s still floating out there to even work on it.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

So, there’s nothing actually crucial, it’s for tinkering. I doubt either the Apple II or the Amiga you linked are going to be secure.

yianiris,
@yianiris@kafeneio.social avatar

Many people browse 4-5 pages a day, see a few emails, print a few pdfs, and a core2duo, or x4, for 40#/$/Eu a box run flawlessly with linux and xfce/lxde for example.
Even video-conferencing works fine.

Why not?

@ICastFist @db2

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Driver code is still there, you can add it back if you want, same with ide drivers and such, support was removed but code still exists, just add it and compile your own kernel, there are alot of tutorials in internet about it

db2,

Go add a 2.4 era driver to a modern kernel and see how that goes.

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Then support will be until 2033 when 6.1 slts support will end

fornax,
@fornax@feddit.nl avatar

The drivers were removed in 6.3. Debian 12 is still running on 6.1. Debian 12 just came out and still has many years of support ahead of it (at least 5). You can get plenty of use out of these cards before they stop working.

db2,

But they’ll stop working due to artificial causes.

rasensprenger,

Someone needs to maintain them for them to keep working. Nobody else is willing to do that anymore, but you can still volunteer as a maintainer. If you don’t, it’s as much your fault as anyone elses.

db2,

There’s a big difference between dropping a driver and dropping the ability to have the driver. I’ve compiled plenty of drivers.

bouh,

I would suppose anyone running a computer with these relics can recompile a kernel to get these drivers back

carpelbridgesyndrome, in Just install EndeavorOS lol

I will not stand slander of the arch wiki.

Also start with Linux Mint XFCE (unless they’ve fixed the stability problems with cinnamon)

chicken,

When I started using LM I had a lot of problems, but switching to XFCE fixed most of them

authed, in But Windows 11 is so good!!11!1!

wish you could install only security updates

LUHG_HANI,
@LUHG_HANI@lemmy.world avatar

Long term service branch exists on 10.

maccentric,

Only for Enterprise tho

EmperorHenry,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

You can delay all other updates with the group policy editor. You can disable preview builds and you and delay quality updates by 30 days and delay feature updates by 365 days. The bugs are always worked out by then.

Holzkohlen,

OR they could stop shipping broken updates for their $100 ad-infested operating system. Just a a thought.

Karyoplasma,

My tinfoil hat theory is that they ship broken updates on purpose to feign how fast and hard they work on fixing them. See, customers, we really care!

authed,

thats good but Im also worried about the useless changes that they make… so after 365 days I would start getting constant useless updates anyways

EmperorHenry,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Feature updates are necessary after a while. There’s SOME important stuff in there. And if you wait a whole year before installing the new one, all the bugs will be fixed by then

Lulzagna, in Just install EndeavorOS lol

Use endeavour if you’re new

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