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unionagainstdhmo, in Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

The average consumer isn’t going to toss out a good computer they bought if it can’t run Windows 11. They’re certainly not installing Linux. They’ll keep using Windows 10 for as long as they can. I’ve seen way too much of Windows XP still running on people’s computers, if it can still browse the web, access emails and look at Facebook they’re not spending money on a new one

Sine_Fine_Belli,

Same here

I’ll keep using the computer I bought for as long as possible even if support for windows 10 ends

blazeknave,

Good point XP held on forever

Clipboards,
@Clipboards@lemmy.world avatar

The stenographer for our local zoning & planning board still uses a XP netbook. Couldn’t believe my eyes when I first saw it

ironeagl,

Could be some software that is no longer supported.

blazeknave,

Good point. What about hardware drivers? Do the OEMs use OS support deprecation, as an excuse to bail on shit? Or are driver updates irrelevant to a dead OS bc it’s in stasis?

ironeagl,

My though was their preferred stenography keyboard was made by a company that is now defunct, ergo no updates. Possibly could be overcome with techy means, but I’m guessing the stenographer doesn’t have those.

SapphironZA,

Half of India tech industry still runs on windows 7.

kumatomic,

I mean stopping Windows updates is really more a win than a loss half the time. They’ve forcefully installed so much of the shitware in Windows 10 updates that makes Windows 11 awful. It took me an hour to strip all the bullshit off of my partner’s Windows 10 that he left to auto-update.

unionagainstdhmo,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

Auto update has been a pain in the arse. Was doing a presentation for a group assignment with a Windows user and just before we were about to go up the thing just decided on a whim to install an update. Funnily enough he said he wanted to try Linux after that

JustARegularNerd,

It’s actually astonishing to me how much better Linux deals with updates compared to macOS and Windows. “Oh, updates are installed, and you just need to restart whatever I updated if it’s currently running.”

Sometimes it does have its moments though, like when it updates some core package and changes its config in such a way that the next boot doesn’t go into a GUI, but I think it’s also fair to point out Windows has had those too. And macOS High Sierra with the performance and security issues it initially had on release won’t go unmentioned by me either.

Cannacheques,

Agreed. There usually needs to be a big demand for a shift. Kind of like with Android development. Things tend to slow down once they run out of good ideas.

For Microsoft I think the next big move could be for a whole solar system calendar, e.g. symmetry 454, then synchronise that with a local family/group calendars, social events integration etc, throw in something like bing coin, then throwing it all into a big new multi compatible platform available to all of XP, 7, 10 and 11, add some games shit in there to compete with steam deck, then throw in some hardware CPU cooling accessories to prop up the trash software until they spend the next ten years updating like Lenovo bridge, it so that they can let optimizing their software enough to not fuck things up.

As for how the hell they plan on making money from it all, I suspect that the accessories will eventually lead to subscription costs for certain OEM support. This will encourage OEM manufacturers to engage directly with consumers and retailers to invest in the recycling process so that they can jack up prices across the board.

Use this money to add their shit into some NASA computers for extra hype. No big long term plan, just getting their logo and their foot in the door with the next big direction for computing lol

aard, in Wayland-Proxy Load Balancer Helping Firefox Cope With Wayland Issues
@aard@kyu.de avatar

Would be interesting if this is more on Firefox side, or on compositor side. I’ve been running Firefox in Wayland for about 9 months now, without any issues.

drwankingstein, (edited )

this is a wayland issue. Due to how wayland works, it cannot drop messages, this means if the messages stop being accepted (IE. the program becomes very slow and not very responsive) the application will wind up dying. EEVDF helped resolve a lot of these issues. but they arent gone yet.

a fairly easy replication cause is to start a large rust project compile since cargo will thread to oblivion if it gets the chance, then use the PC on wayland. Applications can frequently die, Firefox, MPV, Kate, gnome web, chromium, games, etc. it also doesn’t matter what compositor you use right now as gnome, kde sway all share the issue

EEVDF really does help stop a lot of these crashing though

aard, (edited )
@aard@kyu.de avatar

You’re describing Wayland running into issues due to overall high system load, and not been given enough scheduler time to accept messages?

edit: This issue? gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/…/159 - didn’t find anything else matching the description, and personally have never seen that, both on my low specs notebook or my workstation, which probably counts as higher spec.

drwankingstein,

correct, this is the same issue, this generally really only happens with a sustained all core workload that will consistently leave you cpu at 100%, since if it’s not sustained, the kernel will allot some time to the programs, and the crash wont happen

woelkchen,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

the program becomes very slow and not very responsive

BeOS solved the issue of unresponsive GUIs in the 1990s. The GUI just must never run in the same thread as the logic.

FuckBigTech347,
@FuckBigTech347@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I agree. The proxy solution they’re proposing seems like a band-aid on a fundamental design issue to me. It’s easier to just tack yet another library onto a big project than to refactor large amounts of code. This is exactly why a lot of software is getting more and more shit.

lemmyvore,

Also this is the kind of issues Wayland will be facing now that it’s starting to see widespread adoption, issues that arise from more and more complex situations created by interconnecting more apps with it in more ways.

How the devs handle this will be crucial and imo it can make or break the project in the long run. It’s one thing to successfully run a hobby project at a small scale, it’s another to shoulder the entire Linux desktop for the foreseeable future. That’s the bar that X had to meet; if Wayland intends to be the Linux desktop it has to step up. “Not our problem, deal with it outside Wayland” will not do.

drwankingstein,

while this is good on theory, when your CPU is being absolutely hammered, you need to re-adjust priorities to make a system responsive again, it’s actually not a simple thing to do without a context aware scheduler. Even though EEVDF is pretty good, it still struggles some times

woelkchen,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

My PC with a 133MHz Pentium 1 processor was pretty responsive all the time back in the day. It’s definitely a solved problem.

Scrath, (edited ) in Wayland-Proxy Load Balancer Helping Firefox Cope With Wayland Issues

Personally I didn’t have any problems with that yet fortunately.

My bigger problem right now is a bug that prevents me from copying stuff from the url bar when middle-click pasting is disabled in the KDE settings…

In X11 the bug doesn’t exist

Exec,
@Exec@pawb.social avatar

My bigger problem right now is a bug that prevents me from copying stuff from the url bar when middle-click pasting is enabled in the KDE settings…

What. For me it’s the opposite - I can’t copy stuff to other apps from Firefox if that setting is not enabled

Scrath,

Yeah sorry. I was half asleep while I wrote this. That is the problem I have as well.

One workaround I found is to use the separate search bar (if you have it enabled) as a buffer.

When I copy the URL I can paste it into the search bar but nowhere else. If I copy the search bar I can paste it everywhere just fine

Exec,
@Exec@pawb.social avatar

Ah. For me it’s not the search bar only but also if I select text and press Ctrl+C/press context menu Copy as well.
Interestingly, if sites put something in the clipboard (eg. Mastodon toot Copy link button) it works anywhere else.

1984,
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Is this on Fedora? My girlfriend has lots of similar issues on Fedora that disappeared on pop os.

Scrath,

EndeavorOS with KDE Plasma desktop

coolmojo, in Flatpack, appimage, snaps..

A bit of history. The first universal packaging format was snap by Canonical and used to be called Click apps and it was made for the Ubuntu mobile OS and later to the Ubuntu desktop. Red Hat in response to that created the FlatPak format. The AppImages are community effort. As you can see since both snap and FlatPak are developed and supported by a company they are more widely available and easier to search, install and update them. There are multiple tools for AppImages as well, which can search, install an update, however they are not pre installed or can be installed from the repo on most distro. There are dielstros which ship AppImage support by default with App Store for example Nitrux. You can use AppMan or bauh for managing AppImages. The AppMan has command line interface and bauh is a graphical application. Bauh can also manage snap and FlatPak.

MentalEdge, in Wayland-Proxy Load Balancer Helping Firefox Cope With Wayland Issues
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I had to force it to run in xwayland because in wayland it no longer remembers window positions, so with wayland it was opening all my windows in a big pile on the current desktop, instead of putting them in the positions and on the desktops they belong.

aard,
@aard@kyu.de avatar

That sounds more like a compositor problem - typically a client should not have control over where windows are placed, and that X11 allowed that got heavily abused with negative impact on UI. Wayland fortunately fixed that, so it is now up to the compositor where to place windows. Those can send hints, but the compositor is free to ignore them.

In your situation your compositor should remember where to stick the windows.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Kwin. It works with xwayland, doesn’t with wayland, I’d love a solution, but I found nothing.

zurohki,

Window rules based on the application name and window title?

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Doesn’t the window title change on firefox depending on tab or even web-page?

zurohki,

Yeah, if you want certain pages in certain screens it would work, and then they’d stay there

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

And if I ever browse away from that page and forget to return to it before closing firefox…

This has a million caveats and isn’t even close to a solution for how I use firefox. Each desktop has their own windows and I want them to stay there because the tabs open are relevant to that desktop.

Meanwhile forcing xwayland, just works.

danielfgom, in Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

It will be mostly Enterprise upgrading. The average consumer buys the cheapest laptop they can get. They won’t be upgrading. I think nowadays not many average consumers even use computers. They just do everything on a phone.

krolden,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

Most enterprise is going to continue to pay for extended windows 10 support especially for things like embedded control systems running windows 10 ltsc/iot.

danielfgom,
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

It’s 50/50. The last Enterprise I worked at they would NEVER agree to pay that. They’d rather get new machines

Squid, (edited ) in What's an elegant way of automatically backing up the contents of a large drive to multiple smaller drives that add up to the capacity of the large drive?

You’ll have ask the question of how important is this data, then before you start run drive diagnostic tool to see if all are functioning as expected, I’d suggest moving directories aposed to chopping anything up as to maintain some form of redundancy if a drive were to fail. It’ll be a long process. Hope it goes well

Resync is a handy tool

Da_Boom, in Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?
@Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Because the vast majority of people don’t have a reason to do it. They’ve never used Linux before - heck there are people who have never heard of it before.

The other thing is you and I, chances are can find a use for our old machines, have a place to store it, or know how valuable it currently is. Most other people aren’t aware of how parts or entire systems depreciates, don’t have a use for a second computer, and can’t afford the storage space to store a spare PC for a backup. They also don’t really have time to do a lot of research on the issue or just plain old don’t care.

So what do they do? Well there only remaining option is to throw it away, maybe theyll be a bit wise and take it to an electronics recycler, where you have to trust it won’t get thrown away anyway.

blazeknave,

Exactly. Used mine to learn Linux and proxmox. I’m also someone’s who would be here.

ULS, (edited )

They will be in the ditches alongside rural roads with the tires, couches, and washing machines.

Nature at work. In 1000 years the government will pay child slaves to mine them for the new microchip implants. Smoggy fields of children burning plastics off metal to feed the dreams of the rich and elite.

The same as it ever was, the same as it always will be.

…I don’t know why I wasted my time making this useless post. 😑

TheMadnessKing, (edited ) in Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?

IMO ppl should be using W10 IoT LTSC. That’s the only right way to use W10.

Also, no Linux as Linux still can’t run SM Office. /s

Mio, in Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?

I think Microsoft should actually be forced to either extend support or give the user one option to be secured. With the later I mean pay for license or click here to automatically choose a Linux distro that the user will be migrated to. It could be Mint or one of MS own Linux distribution with OneDrive preinstalled and links to Office 365 online word. Even install Android could be one option.

This is better than getting all the devices on the landfill.

Remember that 99% don’t know what to do with their computer or are lazy. One easy fix should be available.

blazeknave,

This is why we need functioning representative government. Something this big needs regulation.

No entity can own a percentage of the global fucking economy and be less accountable than a member of the UN.

Mio,

Yes, many other products as well. Not sure why there are no regulations regarding e waste.

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

MS own Linux distribution

The thought of this makes me feel a lot of emotions at once. I don’t think any are good… If MS made a version of Linux, I can’t even fathom how insanely badly they would fuck it up, nor can I imagine it ever happening. I cannot think of an analogy to illustrate this properly really. But yeah, hell freezing over seems like a starting point for describing the likelihood of it.

I have fantasized that MS will come to terms with how shit their core OS is and eventually make something Linux like, based on a lot of free stuff. But that feels 20 years off, and like an absolute fantasy still.

blazeknave,

I think with the current staff in the ranks at Microsoft and leadership opening the ecosystem for end user devices, they could build something sound. (Don’t sleep on the amount of our world infrastructure running on their OS’s. They are trusted for reliability.) A decade ago I had to reprimand by team for showing up to a mtg in Redmond with a stack of MacBooks and iPads. Now staff have iPhones.

The problem is the business looks for a buck in all the wrong parts of their massively horizontal set of goods. So their Linux will be bloated with cross selling adware.

NekkoDroid,
@NekkoDroid@programming.dev avatar

nor can I imagine it ever happening.

Chief, MS has multiple internal only Linux distros and publically they have CBL-Mariner and I think another that I forgot. They are mostly used with Azure. They really aren’t that much more different to what I know to any other (common) distro out there

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Fair enough, but I think anything consumer facing would be a whole different animal

Mio,

I don’t think they would do Linux. Better if they did a stripped down version of their OS that can run like Chrome OS. Secured with a web browser. Little maintenance as so much has been removed.

lhamil64,

I’m guessing it’d be cheaper for MS to just keep providing security updates for Win10 than to create a whole Linux distro…

Mio,

It probably is. But MS choose how they want to keep the control of the users. But just leaving them like this is just bad. I feel EU should force them to give a solution since the computer came with Windows so it is their responsibility.

One alternative is to give them Chrome OS, or they might prefer building their of version of it.

Today I see a computer as end of life when it is to slow to view webpages. Often like when it is to little RAM available or the CPU is really too slow. Then I think Microsoft could stop caring about it.

cupcakezealot, in Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Microsoft: Arbitrarily increases the system requirements for Windows 11 even though it runs perfectly fine on older pcs just to get people to buy new computers

Also Microsoft: Why’s there so much waste??

knfrmity,

As I understand it, it wasn’t arbitrary. Microsoft has wanted to require TPMs for two decades at this point. Once there’s high enough adoption they can roll out their version of trusted computing.

Allero,

TPM modules are not new, it’s TPM 2.0 that got problematic.

If you run Windows 10, chances are you have TPM 1.4, which is perfectly fine, but Microsoft wants moar

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

When has MS indicated they care about waste in the least?

blazeknave,
TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

This is a marketing page that any big company has a version of. I meant by action, not lip service

blazeknave,

There is a link immediately over the headline in the url I shared. Read the report. I used to sell green asset disposition of electronics. It’s been an industry for a long time. It makes a difference. See what you want to see man. I can intro you to people in that business if you’d like to pick their brains. I don’t know who owns this at Microsoft but I can ask contacts there, if you’d like me to help get you an intro.

Liz,

I found it absolutely amazing they claim my pretty decent laptop from 2016 can’t run Windows 11. Laptops haven’t gotten that much better since then. Also, supposing it actually couldn’t, it’s a fucking operating system. It should be doing everything it can to stay out of the way. What kind of bloated monstrosity is Windows 11 that my laptop can’t run it?

applebusch,

It’s the trusted platform module which I know almost nothing about but I’m sure is fucking stupid. My monster of a desktop from 2018 also can’t run win11, and the only reason is my cpu is missing the tpm that it requires.

Euphoma, in Looking for input regarding finding an IDE (spoilers: involves Emacs and Vim)

Nvim is more optimised, while emacs is more extensible. Basically you can modify core parts of emacs while it runs. I tend to use both, depending on the situation, with a lighter nvim config. Sometimes the 3 second emacs startup time is annoying so I use vim then. I think its fine to try both.

Regarding emacs declining popularity, I think that in the long term it could be a problem, since most people don’t want to learn elisp just to configure their editor. Elisp is very powerful in emacs, but its design is very different to other languages, so as emacs contributors get older, it could possibly lead to less and less new contributors.

Idk about the vim distros, but I think Doom Emacs is easier for beginners to get into.

Are_Euclidding_Me,
@Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net avatar

Sometimes the 3 second emacs startup time is annoying so I use vim then.

The way I get around this is by using emacs in daemon mode. So it only has a long startup if I’ve just rebooted my computer or if I needed to change my config and manually restart emacs. You probably already know emacs can run as a daemon, but I thought I’d mention it anyway!

throwawayish,

I tend to use both, depending on the situation, with a lighter nvim config. Sometimes the 3 second emacs startup time is annoying so I use vim then. I think its fine to try both.

Could you elaborate more upon your workflow? Like, in which situation do you prefer Emacs and when do you prefer Neovim? I get that the lighter option is preferred when you want to perform a quick edit or can’t be bothered with startup time. But I want to know it beyond that and -if possible- what led you to favor one over the other in each situation.

Regarding emacs declining popularity, I think that in the long term it could be a problem, since most people don’t want to learn elisp just to configure their editor. Elisp is very powerful in emacs, but its design is very different to other languages, so as emacs contributors get older, it could possibly lead to less and less new contributors.

How do you envision Emacs’ future? Would, at some moment in the future, some kind of compatibility layer of sorts be developed that lower the entrance barrier? To my knowledge, Emacs has -contrary to Vim- been more open to community development. So I don’t expect something like NeoVim to be developed for Emacs as there’s less need for it. But I don’t know how much they’d be willing to change Emacs for the sake of making it more attractive for new users.

Idk about the vim distros, but I think Doom Emacs is easier for beginners to get into.

Compared to Spacemacs I assume*. If so, would you mind elaborating?

Euphoma,

I’m not using lsp in Neovim so if I need lsp I’ll just pull out emacs. If I’m already in the terminal I’ll usually pull out Neovim to edit a file, but if I’m writing like markdown or something that uses images I like the ability to display images inline in emacs. LaTeX is always something I do in emacs because there’s a built in pdf viewer in emacs and there’s built in spell check also. In the terminal in emacs, sometimes I open up Neovim to do a quick edit because of muscle memory from the terminal. One thing that’s really cool about Neovim is that you can embed it in other applications, so if I really have to use an ide that’s not emacs, I’ll just do that.

I don’t use Neovim for complex tasks, because personally I find it a bit hard to discover commands compared to emacs. The menubar in emacs is really useful for finding useful commands in different major and minor modes.

Yeah there’s a thing called EAF, which allows python and javascript to be embedded in emacs. It allows for more complex applications to be built in emacs, similar to VSCode. I’m not sure how difficult it is to make something with EAF, but I haven’t really seen any things written in it that aren’t in the EAF organization. I think the future could be EAF or maybe something like EAF to be able to leverage the power of the javascript ecosystem like how VSCode does for a lot of plugins. There have been some attempts to rewrite emacs in different languages, but emacs is too large, and you would lose the old ecosystem by doing that.

There’s a larger community around Doom Emacs, and Doom Emacs looks nicer. Honestly though it doesn’t matter that much which one you use since they are both pretty good.

throwawayish,

I’m not using lsp in Neovim so if I need lsp I’ll just pull out emacs. If I’m already in the terminal I’ll usually pull out Neovim to edit a file, but if I’m writing like markdown or something that uses images I like the ability to display images inline in emacs. LaTeX is always something I do in emacs because there’s a built in pdf viewer in emacs and there’s built in spell check also. In the terminal in emacs, sometimes I open up Neovim to do a quick edit because of muscle memory from the terminal. One thing that’s really cool about Neovim is that you can embed it in other applications, so if I really have to use an ide that’s not emacs, I’ll just do that.

Wow, the insights! Vehemently noting these down somewhereHeck, I think you’ve cracked the code. Since I’ve created these posts, I became more and more aware of how great both Emacs and (Neo)Vim are. And while I was already flirting with the idea to perhaps use both, I think you’ve just completely obliterated any other option; which is a good thing. As such, I’m actually grasping for words that would somehow be able to properly convey the feelings of gratitude I currently experience. For whatever it’s worth; thank you from the bottom of my heart!

Yeah there’s a thing called EAF, which allows python and javascript to be embedded in emacs. It allows for more complex applications to be built in emacs, similar to VSCode. I’m not sure how difficult it is to make something with EAF, but I haven’t really seen any things written in it that aren’t in the EAF organization. I think the future could be EAF or maybe something like EAF to be able to leverage the power of the javascript ecosystem like how VSCode does for a lot of plugins. There have been some attempts to rewrite emacs in different languages, but emacs is too large, and you would lose the old ecosystem by doing that.

Once more; much appreciated!

There’s a larger community around Doom Emacs, and Doom Emacs looks nicer. Honestly though it doesn’t matter that much which one you use since they are both pretty good.

Yet again; I’m grateful! Have a good one! I wish you and your loved ones the best!

bartolomeo, in Ending support for Windows 10 could send 240 million computers to the landfill. Why not install Linux on them?
@bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

That picture generated by Dall-E looks like it came straight out of Wall-E.

possiblylinux127, in LXD now re-licensed and under a CLA

I though it was being relicensed under agpl?

OsrsNeedsF2P,

It’s both

woelkchen,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

I though it was being relicensed under agpl?

The answer is in the submitted blog post.

possiblylinux127, in Super weird error, what's happening?

Can you please post the output of journalctl -eu

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    Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 134217728 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 22681592 bytes) in /var/www/kbin/kbin/vendor/symfony/http-kernel/Profiler/FileProfilerStorage.php on line 174

    Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 134217728 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 10502144 bytes) in /var/www/kbin/kbin/vendor/symfony/error-handler/Resources/views/logs.html.php on line 38