Looks like a pretty straightforward install! And a fun project to have a personal message space with friends. It includes the ability to launch gameoso you could maybe set it up as a personal lobby for gaming buddies.
Alright, so what else is needed until Wine on Wayland becomes as good as Wine on Xorg? Is there a checklist, or something? What’s left until Wayland gaming is as good as, if not better than Xorg gaming?
With this last merge you can start playing already. Except for shooters, there are a few more merges left to fix the edge cases. Around 4 or 5 merge requests
Wait, so It’s actually happening? Wayland gaming will be a thing soon? Plasma 6, releasing in the first half of 2024, has ironed out all but 1 of its “Wayland showstoppers”, actively working on the last one, as well as many bugfixes. XFCE 4.20, with Wayland support, is releasing in late 2024. Cinnamon, MATE, Pantheon, and Enlightenment, have all started working on Wayland support and will likely show early stages of it in 2024. AND WINE will hopefully be fully Wayland-ready in 2024. 2024 will be the year of Wayland!!!
Take a look at Minifree Ltd. For less than USD $500, you can get a decent ThinkPad with Libreboot and your choice of Linux distro (KDE Debian is installed by default).
So X.Org fully dies on the 31st May 2035 with the end of Extended Life Cycle Support for RHEL 9. We have XOrg’s death day. Even if it will likely be on it’s death bed taking its final breaths for years before that.
I thought this as well but the more I think about it, the less true this seems. From an engineering point of view, it could last longer.
Xwayland is really just Xorg and Xwayland continues to be supported in RHEL10 and beyond.
Xorg and Wayland compositors have grown together in some ways. Both now use libinput, libdrm, and KMS for example. Those are not going away.
Xwayland is really just Xorg adapted to talk to Wayland instead of KMS and libinput. It is mostly the same code. So, Xorg will continue to benefit from the care and attention that Xwayland gets. Perhaps there may not be many new features but the code is not going to bit rot and security will continue to be addressed. While Xwayland does not use libinput or KMS, the Wayland compositor itself will, so those pieces are also going to be maintained including new features and new hardware support. Mesa is a common component as well.
So, while Red Hat may stop coordinating releases of Xorg at some point, a surprising amount of the code will still be actively maintained and current. It may not take a lot of work for somebody else to take over and bundle it up as a release.
What will probably kill Xorg is lack of demand.
Despite the anti-Wayland chatter, the migration to Wayland looks like it will gain substantial momentum this year and next and not only on Linux. Three to five years from now, the number of people that still care about Xorg ( as the primary display server - not as Xwayland ) may be very small indeed. Obviously it will be running on older systems for a long, long time but, ten years from now, installing Xorg on a new system is likely to be very rare ( like CP/M now rare ).
Red Hat may end up being one of the very last players that cares about Xorg after 2030. My guess is that most of the current never-Wayland crowd will have moved to it long before then.
Yeah, thank you for doing such a good explanation of it. I completely agree. Truth be told, the features I missed with Qtile on Wayland (some bugs that took a while to iron out, and are only fixed in qtile-git, as well as rounded corners, which are a work-in-progress, leaving me with only 1 issue with Qtile, that being how difficult Qtile Wayland is to install and set up, if only there was a working guide for doing so via pip, but pywayland and/or pywlroots via pip are usually broken), were all fixed by Hyprland, so I’m on Hyprland full time now, and I love it! There is only one minor issue I have (drop downs from Waybar’s systray are kinda broken on Hyprland, rendering weirdly, with strange black gaps between sections and rendering under, rather than over, windows).
This actually makes it sound like Xorg will be supported longer than I thought.
I understood RHEL9 to already be Wayland based and so I was expecting the clock to runout on Xorg when RHEL8 went off support. RHEL9 does default to Wayland but it sounds like Xorg remained a fully supported option for those that wanted it. The move to Wayland only being proposed for RHEL10 did not happen on RHEL9.
RHEL8 goes off support in 2029 but RHEL9 is supported until 2032. The implications of this article are that Red Hat will not put much energy into Xorg after 2025 ( RHEL10 ) but they will still have to support their customers. This at least means security fixes but it likely means continued viability of modern hardware to a certain extent as well.
Regardless, this also highlights one of the “hidden”‘contributions of Red Hat and how much the entire ecosystem relies on them. This can be seen as good or bad but I wish the public debate involving them would at least accurately reflect it.
And even beyond that, because any distro that ships Wayland by default does so because it has XWayland as a backup, which is essentially running an X server inside Wayland.
Xwayland is likely to be with us a very long time. I do not see Motif adding Wayland support anytime soon for example. How long for GNUstep to hop on board?
Agreed ( on the code ). Wayland and Xorg also share libinput, libdrm, KMS, and Mesa.
The biggest difference is that Red Hat will stop bundling this stuff up together, testing it, and created releases. Most of the actual code will still be maintained though.
This is a home NAS with one user (myself) on this Linux client. Other clients will be Windows for other users.
My NAS user has full rw permissions across the NAS shares (but not admin privs). I’m not super comfortable with this config as it strike me as too permissive to mount on the home directory. Would love to hear better approaches.
Yes, there is a chance the NAS can be down when booting the Linux pc.
I set up the mount points in configuration as dynamic NFS volumes and added Bookmarks to nautilus. You can get to the volume either with cd command or right-click -> terminal here. You can shut down the NAS and only lose the share, which returns when the system goes online.
This is much better than WbDAV, which is fine for simple sharing or for devices that can’t handle NFS easily like Android phones.
Well, with multiple users you’d need to decide what the use case is for the whole NAS and then work down from there.
Are you sharing everything in the NAS with everyone? In that case your NAS setup is fine, just a little permissive, because with RW to everything, the end users can break everything.
If it were me setting this up, I’d have different mount points for different users. 1 mount for each user that only they can read/write (not even you should be able to see it), and 1 mount that everyone can read/write, maybe if you want to go a little bonkers, 1 mount that everyone can read, but only you can write to.
Then you’d mount those three to separate mounts in your /media, and you can link them from your home directory for specific use cases.
Obviously this is completely overkill, but you can take the parts that sound appealing to you and ignore the rest.
Honestly just make sure you do your research. If you are unsure you could go buy a used Chromebook on eBay for about $50 bucks. Once you get that device working you can always upgrade.
Keep in mind each Chromebook model is different and not all are compatible. Again, do your research
<span style="color:#323232;"> --filter, -f=filter
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> Filter what containers are going to be stopped. Multiple filters can be given with multiple uses of the --filter flag. Filters with the same key work
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> inclusive with the only exception being label which is exclusive. Filters with different keys always work exclusive.
</span>
<span style="color:#323232;">Usage: docker stop [OPTIONS] CONTAINER [CONTAINER...]
</span><span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Options:
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> -s, --signal string Signal to send to the container
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> -t, --time int Seconds to wait before killing the container
</span>
YouTube got traction before Google bought it and before Google bought it they tried to make Google videos and failed, what peertube lacks is contributors
And discoverability, it still has ways to go on the social networking integration. I still don't know how to go from watching a peertube video on a peertube instance to liking/boosting it on another fediverse service, even if I wanted to.
That said, I have been following Peertube for a couple of years, and the progress has been incredible. It makes sense to create a solid foundation for video playback first, and a lot of people seem to not understand the extent of the innovation Peertube has made in that regard. Social media tools obviously come second after providing a solid service, and I have no idea it will develop in great ways in the coming years. :)
The only one I can find is TILVids, which has a few of the bigger Linux content creators but not much more than that. Content worth watching is really the one thing PeerTube is lacking, and that has to come from users, but that’s really a catch-22. You need more quality content to bring in more users, but you need more users to provide that quality content.
On top of that, not many unique users are going to be drawn to a platform that can’t provide avenues for monetization and which costs money to run on top of that, even with all the policies at YouTube all these creators whine about in every other video, which they only mostly whine about because it affects their monetization. So it’s either live with YouTube’s policies reducing your potential income or live with a negative income to set up or join a PeerTube instance: slightly reduced profit vs guaranteed loss. They’ll pick the slightly reduced profit every time.
Even further, the ones who get kicked off of YouTube and need to find an alternative or care enough about “free speech” to branch out are… mostly niche creators, to put it politely, and the unique content they provide to these alternative platforms tends to discourage other creators who still have YouTube channels from syncing their channels from YouTube to PeerTube in order to not be associated with those more niche creators. Other platforms such as Rumble and Odysee have similar issues. That said, PeerTube does have an advantage over Rumble/Odysee in this regard, in that instances that want to avoid that type of content can moderate and set up their federation to limit that association, but at that point they may just find it too much effort to put into bringing in too small an audience to be worth it.
The Fediverse appears to work well enough for user generated content that doesn’t take much effort or expense to provide, such as Twitter, Facebook or Reddit-type content, as the rise of Mastodon and Lemmy are showing, but when users have to put in the work and expense of publishing a video, the return on investment of PeerTube (in both money and views) compared to just staying on YouTube may just be too small to work.
But theoretically, if someone set up an instance to host their videos, they could serve banner ads right? Wouldn’t that at least partly diminish the monetization problem?
Unfortunately, the new FOSS linux laptop scene is basically the pine book pro for less then $250 or Framework/System76/Tuxedo for greater than $900 with nothing in-between.
Yeah, I should be more clear. I’m talking about laptops that the manufacture openly supports or ships a linux distro with it. I just assume OP already knows he can do a bit of research and get a decent $300 laptop from like lenovo/acer/hp/dell/etc… and install linux on it.
I’m comfortable doing the Linux swap on an old dell, but I guess what I’m looking for is a recommendation of a device that is known to work well for that purpose.
Are there any “gotchas” that I should be looking out for in the hunt?
If you’re hunting down older eqipment (5, 6 years old), no, not really… everything just works with Linux and older stuff. The newer stuff is always the problem with any OS that is not Windows (though that is changing for the better in the last few years, especially for Linux).
It’s hard to recommend because sometimes with cheaper laptops they have weird wifi chip sets, audio chip sets, and stuff for controlling the lcd back light, f-keys, etc… Also sometimes they have weird way to boot into the boot menu that may not be well documented. I don’t really know what brand or models should be avoided though.
Oooh, don’t do the Pinebook Pro. I think anything Pine64 isn’t unsuitable for a non-tinkerer to be using. Also, if there’s DRM content involved (unsure on Hulu), you’ll probably want to stick with an x86 CPU.
Though it’s important to note that you’re buying the hardware and the community is actively working on the software. For example, the wifi driver is only partially functional and it’s currently recommended that only developers should install it. Otherwise, they’re recommending using an external adapter or phone for wifi until it gets fixed.
Most interesting development. This is obviously still into the future but I also always had the impression that Redhat did a lot of work on the XOrg server. With this I think it’s actually dead once they no longer support RHEL 9 and older.
I won’t miss it, granted it’s not a bad implementation, but the design is showing its age. Apart from Wayland that I use, I’m also looking at Arcan’s progress from time to time. Obviously rather niche at the moment but projects like these make the ecosystem interesting.
This honestly still feels premature for a server based OS. I rely on x forwarding and an rdp server for some tasks, and as far as I know Wayland still doesn’t really have support for either of those.
I assume you’re talking about X over SSH? That’s possible with Wayland via Waypipe. Also I’m not sure why RDP would require X, just a compositor being able to forward the video over network (which is perfectly possible with Wayland) and accepting inputs over network as well, which to my knowledge isn’t part of Wayland. Quick check says Gnome already offers RDP and that’s Red Hat’s DE.
Gotcha on the forwarding, my issue with rdp forwarding is I want a server like xrdp, so users don’t need to be logged in locally, which I haven’t seen googling yet.
People keep saying this, but X forwarding seems to work just fine with XWayland. I just tried a handfull of X programs between my machines, and neither are running X11. I don’t use it everyday to know the gotchas, but there you go. Programs that use shared memory pixel buffers (everything that isn’t xeyes realistically) even run better than I remember now that I have gigabit. >_< It’s still a way worse experience than VNC or RDP though.
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