Why would you pay for an incompetent sabotaging system?
I installed both windows and Linux about a week ago. Linux was (with download and USB creation) a little over 30 minutes. Windows was an agonizing 7 hour journey through all sorts of dumb vague error messages, internet searches disconnecting and reconnecting drives, various rewrites the that USB drive, having to spin up a VPS in Linux and install windows there first… It was a fucking nightmarish hellscsape caused by a mix of windows developers (and their managers) incompetence and pure sabotage of people that use real operating systems.
Fuck everything about Microsoft, install Linux and stick with that. We have cookies
NGL I gotta say that sounds like a fluke. I’ve never had to spend more than an hour on a fresh windows install. I run Windows on my desktop and Linux Mint on my laptop. So while I haven’t done thousands of installs if 7 hours was a constant issue no one would be using Windows.
What kind og software did you need to find? Last time i did a fresh install of win10 (a couple of weeks ago), I downloaded Rufus to make the bootable USB and that was the only thing I needed to go “fish for all over the internet”… 30min later I was up and running, updates scheduled to run during the night when I didn’t need to use the computer.
How did you manage to do that? Installing Windows 11 only took me about 30 minutes last time. Installing Debian takes about the same time. And what does a VPS even have to do with all of this?
For me the 30 minutes to install is about right. After that I have usable Linux and an unusable Windows.
To get Windows to the same state:
Add 5 Minutes for clicking trough the "Do you want to enable handwriting? ((( We just allow ourselves to collect samples of everything you write to “improve our recognition engine” )))
Add 20-30 minutes of security updates (thankfully it got much faster with SSDs, before it could have been hours)
Add 20-30 minutes of installing necessary software like an office suite, PDF Reader with basic functionality, 7zip. This is only 30 minutes because I spent hours automating the downloads and installs trough scripts.
If it is my system or a company system: Add 20 minutes to go trough the settings of Win10Privacy to at least reduce the phoning home and to enable some necessary settings for working with the system like "Don’t restart at random times"
Add 10 Minutes to remove the installed bloatware like People, Windows Maps, Windows Experience Host, …
In summary:
Linux requires 5 minutes attention and is ready after 30min.
Windows requires 40 minutes of attention and is somewhat ready after 2h30min. Even if I skip the privacy stuff its still at about 1h20min.
To be fair: On Windows and Linux I immediately install ublock to Firefox afterwards, on Linux I run a single apt command to install some more niche software which takes about 3 minutes on a fast network connection.
I’m sorry but you are just cherry picking. I’m not going into detail, but it sounds more like you have no knowledge on windows then you do. There are many ways to shorten installs for programs, those are not windows system and can be removed from your time, same for win10privacy, same for the ‘bloatware’. In all that leaves 30 min install and 30 mins of security 'in the background’ still 30min.
I am very happy if you can enlighten me. Granted, I do not install Windows very often (otherwise I would bake all these things into an image), and there may be improvements. So feel free to make your point and save me time.
An no, security updates can’t run in the background. If I sit a user in front of a PC, the PC has to be secure. Which means that the zero day exploits from a few days ago which are already exploited in the wild have to be fixed. Also yes, software for basic tasks and configuration till usability is reached is part of an operating system install. Otherwise you have to compare the time to install a barebones Linux (1 Minute) with a bare Windows install (still 30 minutes).
I currently use chocolatey for automation of software installs. But Libreoffice alone takes minutes to install on Windows even on fast PCs. If you know a better/faster tool I am happy to listen.
So, I came here with a bit of knowledge in Linux having fucked around with Ubuntu and Arch here and there, and I can tell you, even with a sturdy and non-rolling release like Fedora Silverblue, there are easily things I can do in Windows that just work without any additional overhead or configuration that simply does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.
You guys all say Windows sucks and Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread but it still can’t do the fucking basics that Windows does in spades. When I install Windows on a machine, I have nearly a 100% guarantee that every single component is going to work properly with minimal config. When I try to do the same thing in Linux, it’s hours on the Arch wiki or deep into forums trying to figure out how to get something as basic as a fingerprint sensor to work. That’s not convenient for the average user, and you guys are not the goddamn average user, because you are okay with shit not working out of the box and doing configurations for a lot of little things that you would otherwise just take entirely for granted as simply working on Windows.
Download windows media tool. Start installation. Done in ~30 min. After install, downloads all necessary basic drivers automatically. Just have to download Nvidia GeForce. < I have installed my own PC yes, multiple times yes.
Enjoy your Linux, please don’t lie to prove unexisting superiority.
True story, Linux sees MIME types, so if Hot.Chick.Blows.Brother.mp4 is a virus, it shows up with a Windows (MZ) binary icon, not a media icon 😉… unlike Windows which only recognizes extensions 😒.
Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, also decided that file extensions should be hidden by default. So you won’t even see that you downloaded TaylorSwift_1989_TaylorsVersion.exe instead of TaylorSwift_1989_TaylorsVersion.mp3 unless you changed that setting ahead of time.
Wait… Real?? I guess its always been a part of the first round of changes I’ve always made to Windows. Crazy how much I’ve normalized fighting the software I use.
Anyway, that’s wild. What a just bad and unsafe decision.
See, this is mostly because of 2 things. One, when changing filenames, users make the stupid mistake of changing the extension as well (having no extension that is), which of course, in Windows, it means the file won’t be recognized as a media file. Two, blind you from the truth - you don’t want users that can think, that’s not what our bysiness is about 😏. Also the reason behind why Windows has less and less options and people that want to change something have to revert to registery hacks to do so.
And this only gets worse, since audio file tags (and I believe video files as well 🤔) include album art nowadays, so it has an icon that is the album art… exe’s also have custom icons, so 🤷…
My memory is fuzzy and I don’t know the correct words to research it, but I am pretty sure that depends on the DE.
Either KDE Plasma (dolphin) or GNOME (nautilus) uses the extension iirc. Maybe that changed though.
That’s not a Linux thing. It’s just whatever desktop shell you chose to use and various shells behave in various ways. The reason this might be safer in most Linux distros is that you’re discouraged from executing things under a privileged user which means that malware can’t make significant changest to your system easily. If you do the same in windows, you’d be just as safe.
Not exactly… I mean, yes, you’re right about the privileges thing, but Windows has a lot more security holes than Linux (or any POSIX based OS for that matter). The root of the problem, as always is the distant Windows relative, DOS… no user space notion whatsoever… and Windows NT has dragged these issues for decades now, all because MS made (bought) DOS and distributed it.
The cruder the malware, the better your chances of running successfully in Wine.
Because throwing together some simple executable using inbuild windows functions is much easier than programming something well-build and hidden based on deeper system layers. So your random "I just encrypted all your files because you clicked this .exe, now send me bitcoin to get it back"-bullshit might work well on wine (which is why wine should be run as it's own user with no priviledges to access anything but your Windows programs).
As an arch user and a German heavy main, this actually feels fair. Both are capable machines but neither are going to maintain themselves, both come with an entire manual you’re expected to read, and nobody will be sympathetic to you if you don’t know the basics of what you’re doing (rotate the steel box for fucks sake).
Beyond the initial setup, Arch has become quite easy to maintain if you have some Linux erperience, mostly because the community has grown a lot in the past few years. Still wouldn’t recommend it to a complete beginner in most cases.
Now, which fucking tank doesn’t require regular maintenance or come with instructions you’re expected to remember?
I’ve been a software engineer for many years so trust me when I say this has nothing to do with how hard or easy it is to install. I used to run Gentoo at some point so I’m not exactly CLI averse. The problem isn’t the installation, it’s maintenance. Shit just keeps on breaking for no reason and I’m tired of figuring out how to fix it.
Linux is simply an enormous timesink. It constantly needs handholding and babysitting in order to work. And it doesn’t even reward you for it with a superior user experience, just a steady stream of problems to fix. Windows might not be perfect, but it at least it works. Meanwhile, Linux is like an insecure girlfriend, it constantly needs reassurance that you still love it.
Linux needs constant babysitting? Hmm I wonder why the majority of the internet servers is Linux not Windows. Even in critical infrastructure where stability is valued, not cost.
However you can’t choose a bad distro (bad for your needs that is) ans expect a flawless experience. When I read your first sentence I expected you to be a video editor or in a field where the industry standard software is only limited to Windows. But if your a developer it’s 100% your fault. I am running Linux for over a decade with zero problems. Only time when I had a problem, I was running Arch (btw) and updating the system blindly, daily.
You aren’t dynamically changing configs, libraries and programs on a production server like you are on a user facing system. That the killer. Linux servers are only stable when you leave them alone.
Updates to servers are generally done by beta testing them on identical hardware in the lab and when you have a functioning image you send that to production. To expect that kind of treatment on a user facing system when you say update the web browser would be beyond unacceptable.
As long as GNU/Linux systems continue to have ABI compatibility issues and general buggy issues between updates, it will never be considered a decent user facing system.
Also the quality of code for CLI programs is far more roadtested than GUI related code since there are major corporate efforts to make Linux servers more stable. Since GUI systems aren’t needed for servers they don’t get the same level of attention. That attention comes from the KDE and gnome foundations which don’t have nearly the same kind of money.
There’s a reason people are celebrating Valve contributing to KDE and related GUI projects as there’s finally some real money being thrown at the problem with real results.
I have had zero problems with Linux so I lack knowledge and am overpaid? You have problems therefore you are paid fairly? Hmm sounds very logical. Any critical infrastructure project would be lucky to have you.
Furthermore, you have told another commentor in this same thread that they reek of incompetence because they have a 7 hour Windows install, yet I am being overpaid because I don’t have any problems in Linux? So a competent developer should breeze through Windows but should struggle in Linux? Is that it? Kinda contradictory don’t you think?
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