What do you guys do when you want to run unmaintained programs?

I recently wanted to run tegaki, and my experience is pretty much summed up by the meme. I consider myself fairly tech-savvy, but I just couldn’t figure out how to compile it. So I just gave up, downloaded the .exe and put it into a fresh wine prefix. After installing CJK fonts, everything ran fine. Now I’m trying to get gpaint to work. My distro recently dropped support for gtk+2 (which I am fairly pissed about, since it’s the last good version of GTK+), so I have to set that up manually as well. [[[ EDIT: gtk2 is alive and well. I was just being and idiot and searching for gtk2, when the package is actually called gtk+2. ]]] I installed all of the dependencies that ./configure told me to, but I still kept getting obscure errors when running make.

So, here’s my question: what tools make the process of running abandonware easier? Docker containers? Also, what can I use to package abandonware in order to make it easy for other people to run? Flatpak? Appimages? Any advice is appreciated!

Also, inb4 “just find a modern alternative”. That would be a reasonable solution. I don’t want reasonable solutions!

2xsaiko,
@2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

First thing I’d try is to use a “period-correct” nixpkgs commit for the libraries. It might even have the package already.

renzev,

Hmmm I’m a bit hesitant about nixpkgs, since when I last tried using it (outside of nixos), many (modern) GUI apps were broken, at least on my distro, But I’ll give this a try if u/observanTrapezium’s suggestion doesn’t work. Thanks!

2xsaiko,
@2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

If the app uses OpenGL in any way, you need to use nixGL: github.com/nix-community/nixGL

observantTrapezium,
@observantTrapezium@lemmy.ca avatar

Pull a docker image of an old distro into an apptainer sandbox, install what you need within, then make a .sif image, should work pretty much in perpetuity. You can also try to make an Appimage.

sturlabragason,

That’s what DistroBox is for: github.com/89luca89/distrobox

huskypenguin,

I was coming here to post this.

renzev,

TIL about sif. Thanks, will give it a try!

devfuuu,

Nix or guix are the proper solution.

marcos,

Yep, if you manage to make it run on them, you are set forever.

sharkfucker420,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

Or you find an AUR someone built years ago

Chewy7324,

That’d be one of those many broken AUR packages that won’t compile.

sharkfucker420,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/ef62d92a-767c-49df-9491-939900f39d3a.jpeg

tostiman,
@tostiman@sh.itjust.works avatar

What the hell is this

aBundleOfFerrets,

They cwyin

renzev,

I read that as “they cygwin” and tbh it’s a pretty accurate depiction of doing anything with cygwin, in my experience at least

TootSweet,

Running the Windows version in Wine probably would never have occurred to me.

Arch (i UsE aRcH bY tHe WaY)'s AUR has a package for it. I just installed gpaint on a Raspberry Pi 4 just to see if it worked. It worked perfectly. (Disclaimer: I did have to update the architecture in the PKGBUILD to allow armv7h, but on an x86_64 machine, that wouldn’t be an issue.)

You could probably run Arch in Docker and install the AUR package in the Docker container if you wanted to go that route.

Petter1,

Mi just love the AUR 👌🏻

T0RB1T,
@T0RB1T@lemmy.ca avatar

I do this using an Arch distrobox on my openSUSE Kalpa machine whenever I need anything that isn’t flatpak’d or available through my tumbleweed distrobox.

OpenStars,
@OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

I like how you pointed out: backwards compatibility is a choice.

MindSkipperBro12,

The left image is what I think of Linux: overly complicated with no real benefit to it.

naeap,
@naeap@sopuli.xyz avatar

Well, then you assume wrong

Linux just gives you the options. Under windows you’d be just sol

unionagainstdhmo,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

I would be very surprised if any major Lemmy instances ran on a MacOS or Windows Server

renzev,

Loving those fanboys in your replies getting absolutely triggered haha

MindSkipperBro12,

Just let them scream, son, just let them scream.

biscuitswalrus,

I have to ask, do you think the websites you use or the places you post run on Windows?

mmcintyre,

I don’t get what the benefits of windows are supposed to be. I just want to play games and ride on the information superhighway. Why would I even want a… Cortana or paperclip or whatever?

renzev, (edited )

The redpill is that there are none. You know how wndows search is absolute crap, but you can get actually decent search results with Powertoys Run? You know how instead of trolling through control pannel and Settings, you can just directly search for whatever configuration you need with god mode? You know how wndows has a package manager, but it is not even installed by default? Or how it supports hibernation (suspend-to-disk), but hides it from the power menu? Ask yourself, why add all of these useful features, and then hide them far away, while presenting the user with a painfully outdated interface bloated with crap like cpilot or crtana or whatever? The answer is that to remain relevant, Mcrosft needs to keep the computing experience painful for their users. If they make Wndows actually nice to use, people will swiftly realize that using your computer can actually be enjoyable. And that leads to trying out alternatives like BSD and Linux. And trying out alternatives leads to finding out that those alternatives are superior. Think about it. They’ve already lost in the server world. Once the remaining office workers and college students realize that mcrosft has been pissing in their mouths while telling them that it’s raining, the only userbase that will be left are “capital G” gming addicts. And that demographic is also slowly waning thanks to wine and the fact that modern vdeo gmes are slowly becoming utter trash.

mmcintyre,

No, I don’t know any of that. Some of those words are familiar, tho. Sorry, I ain’t had a Windows partition on my own personal computer since… damn I forgot what the one before 7 was called - Vista! We still had the family gaming PC, and I stayed buying games during steam and gog sales (even tho I mostly played on consoles - Nintendos and PlayStations only, lol) but I guess I haven’t actually been on it since Windows 8 and I hated it so much! But it’s gone now anyway, cannibalized for parts. Only 1 kid left at home, he’s got his own PC, and I don’t even know what version of windows he’s running. It’s hilarious, go back a few decades and I was free windows tech support for everyone, but now I don’t even know how to Windows.

And look, I’m probably just a trash monster. Like, I’m playing Just Cause 4 on my PS4 right now. And I play plenty of other trash (but also some good games) on my Garuda (it’s based on arch, btw - installed by my husband who has only ever installed windows in his life, with very minimal input from me) gaming PC. I also have the steam deck, but once my son donated parts after his latest PC upgrade, the steam deck just mostly gets picked up to do a little update every so often - but I’m about to go on a trip (and the switch has already been claimed)! To be fair to the steam deck, I mostly don’t even power on my gaming PC, as I really love my PS4 (I can’t stand the PS5 and usually only get on it to help my grandson when he’s here) and my rarely-turned-off MX Linux PC (I don’t hate the KDE of Garuda, but there’s a reason I use an XFCE-based distro as my daily driver).

I might be a gaming addict. But Microsoft hasn’t had anything to offer me since like, George W Bush was president. And even then, it was steam then gog who really had stuff to offer me on the PC. And in the console department, they ain’t ever had anything I’ve wanted, maybe my hands are too small or something but I’ve always hated the Xbox controller.

callyral,
@callyral@pawb.social avatar

find an even older, less mantained alternative.

Thcdenton,

I got Mechwarrior 3 working with wine. That shit was fuckin impossible on modern windows.

frezik,

A lot of DirectX titles from that time period won’t run. It’s the biggest reason Wine on Windows makes sense.

eya,
@eya@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

AUR my beloved

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

AUR can’t save you from a library needing old versions of dynamically linked libraries

LesserAbe,

Maybe I’m missing something or don’t know how to use wine, but more than 50% of the time if I try to run an old windows program it doesn’t work.

LesserAbe,

Also guess I should say my solution is to run a virtual Windows machine on my Ubuntu laptop

renzev, (edited )

Wine tends to work better for Wndows programs that already have a Linux port, because they depend on fewer mcrosoft-specific libraries… which is not very helpful most of the time, but it is the subject matter of the meme.

Falcon,

Well to clarify the two big differences here are that the exe is pre compiled and maybe dynamic libraries.

Heavy tech stacks do suck though

WaterWaiver, (edited )

My distro recently dropped support for gtk+2 (which I am fairly pissed about, since it’s the last good version of GTK+)

Stuff like this completely throws the shared libraries idea in the bin. There are lots of benefits, sure, but none of them matter when your program won’t even start.

Please name and shame your distro. GTK2 is a core component of userspace for many users, just as important as glibc and bash. Maintaining it might be annoying, but it’s the lesser of two evils.

My distro (Void Linux) dropped support for qt4 a few years back. Now I’m running QUCS in wine. “win32 is the only stable ABI in Linux”

(And yes you’re right 2 is the last good version of GTK+. Gtk3 and 4 look and feel so much worse, they make me feel like I’m being punished.)

renzev,

False alarm! I’m on Void Linux too, gtk2 is alive and well! I was just being an idiot and searching for gtk2 while the real package is called gtk+2. I absolutely agree about gtk3 and gtk4. With gtk4 its like they didn’t even bother. Client-side window shadows?!? seriously???. I personally prefer CLI and TUI for my apps, but gtk2 would be my second pick if I ever need to develop a GUI app. Partly because if my app ever gets popular, it would piss off a lot of those updooter types. I would love to use something even more minimalist like nuklear but sadly that’s missing a lot of actually useful desktop integration like IME support (as far as I understand).

“win32 is the only stable ABI in Linux”

kek I’ll be stealing this one

WaterWaiver,

Glad you found a fix :)

FWIW I was running “xbps-query -s gtk2” out of curoisity last night and only saw “gtk2-engines”, which I thought was odd.

WaterWaiver, (edited )

A method I have not seen mentioned yet (for when you have an old precompiled version of an app):

  1. Identify the missing libs. You can run the program, but sometimes it’s easier to use ldd
  2. Use your web browser to download the missing libs from Debian’s repos (stable or older if need be). Unfortunately you often also have to grab their deps too.
  3. Extract the .debs
  4. Move all of the .so files into the same folder as the old program you are trying to run
  5. export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$(pwd)"
  6. Now try running the app

It often takes a bit of fiddling, but it’s worked for me a few times and you only need to fetch the few libraries you are missing. For bigger things however it can be a dependency hell, you might as well use the distro’s actual package manager inside a chroot.

Note: You don’t need to be using Debian as your host distro, I don’t. As long as it’s a glibc based distro you should be mostly fine (glibc is mostly backwards compatible)

space,

Or just download an older live CD that is compatible, and use it in a VM.

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