Yeah if you guys put him in office again, I’m just deleting all social media including lemmy. Fuuuuuck that [most times daily, some times HOURLY] noise. I already live in a very depressing country, don’t need Americans to remind me they’re making things worse.
A terrorist attack that targeted civilians exclusively and subsequently slowly killing hostages while using them for propaganda videos and shooting at fleeing Palestinians is not “fighting for freedom”.
Educate yourself on the entire conflict before you publicly support terrorism.
Don’t worry i read the long list of Israel crimes, saw enough video,images of what’s Israel has done to Palestinians to be well educated. At least enough that you’re bullshit pro Isreal propaganda doesn’t work.
Sorry not playing your stupid game of who is worse and whataboutism
Both are doing horrible things to people. We should highlight each of those. If you think one action justify the other, you will get in a vicious circle And we should fight for human rights, not against each other.
Hamas are fighting for their freedom. They’re killing/kidnapping civilians because Isreal has been doing it for decades and been cheered for it. Massacre can go both ways.
It’s called fight for freedom. The fuck are they supposed to do ? accept being massacre , just wait for the next bomb to kill their entire family ? Wtf ?
That’s a very difficult question to answer but they’re doing it your way and now there’s just more massacre on both sides with seemingly no end in sight. Is it really freedom if everyone is dead?
Have you ever read about any colonized country ? The colonizers commited the most heinous acts to the natives and when they inevitably insurge they’d massacre them. These countries are free because they fought until they become free. Death is inevitable until freedom is gained.
I see your point but there’s gotta be a better example. The natives didn’t have any allies that could stand up to the colonizers or even a way to ask for outside help. Today, we have the internet.
I’m just spitballing here in my privileged American home, but if Hamas was vocal about not stooping to Israel’s civilian-killing level, and did major damage to a political building without harming anyone, that could have given Palestinians more sympathy on the world stage. Even if it’s the thing that “must be done for survival”, it’s really hard to be on the side of innocent killing. I personally can’t be on either side of this conflict, and many feel the same.
So the the several decades of massacre, ethnic cleansing , forced land seizing and house demolishing to give to fucking settlers that Isreal has been commiting towards the Palestinian was okey ? When palistinians attack the fucking settlers that stole their land it’s too much ?
You didn’t read my post. I’m on nobody’s side. What Isreal has done is 100% not okay, and at scale much worse than what Hamas has collectively done in response.
I read it. Not siding with the ones that are fighting for freedom because they’re fighting for freedom doesn’t make sense to me. Have you ever read about any colonized country ? Reading about the fight of the colonized for freedom and the tactics used by colonizers to delegitimize their fights from killing civilians as punishment, calling the freedom fighters terrorists to playing the victim and lying to achieve that status. It’s eye opening.
If Palestine continues with their eye for an eye approach, they are going to lose their fight for freedom. They need strong allies, like every other country fighting for their freedom. Ukraine is the best example I have, but I know it’s not the same. I hope Palestine gets their freedom my friend, it doesn’t look good so far. This is the last comment I’m gonna make.
but if Hamas was vocal about not stooping to Israel’s civilian-killing level, and did major damage to a political building without harming anyone, that could have given Palestinians more sympathy on the world stage.
How? their rockets barely do anything. The only way for them to do damage is a ground invasion, and for that to happen they'd need the help of radicalized Gazans, and those Gazans will 100% do harm to civilians.
Plus "sympathy on the world stage" isn't worth two Qasam rockets.
Even if it’s the thing that “must be done for survival”, it’s really hard to be on the side of innocent killing. I personally can’t be on either side of this conflict, and many feel the same.
It doesn't matter, if you're a citizen of the US or Europe, then you're automatically assigned to the occupation terrorists side by your government. Hamas wasn't looking for your support, because you can do nothing, only your glorious supreme leader can.
Your argumentation is pretty shortened. Its the same argument if somebody say, Israel is fighting for its freedom after anti semitic movements and nazism in central and eastern europe.
There are no rights, when it comes to harming innocent civilians.
Edit: On both sides of course, same.goes for the army of Israel and not helping civilians.
Isreal is killing civilians deliberately to punish them for their fight freedom. Colonizers in the past used this tactic with every country they colonized. The colonizer must not feel safe in the land he’s stealing. The colonizer need to fucking leave.
Earth is dying, ressources depleting and temperature are rising. Do you expect a bright future ahead ? By 2050, the Middle East will have unbearable heat waves and it will be getting worse from there. It’s there now , yes, but doubt it’ll be there in the next century. Most humanity either, but that’s a bonus.
you mean attacking military infrastructure one year+ of shelling?
That's not as bad as 17years of starvation and oppression.
Ukraine is very organized compared to Hamas; they have an actual government that's allowed to function and can instruct it's troops.
If Russia was surrounding Ukraine while the US wasn't giving aid to them, the Ukrainian government would either not exist, or become a "terrorist group" that's divided into a dozen militants that are barely organized. An attack formed by this group would be devastating to Russian civilians, because even if the head of this organization intends on not hurting civilians, will the militant groups that are mostly comprised of radicalized Ukrainians looking for revenge care?
Thats something completely different. If Ukraine did or does war crimes, they should be condemned.
Ukraine should start committing war crimes, maybe that would get them more US support.
Or they would get completely wiped out. Like look at the occupied territory of Ukraine.
Oh, so if you are fighting a bigger country and don't have allies, just die. Very smart move.
If the purpose of the comment is to show that the occupation is being merciful by not wiping out Palestine, then you might be ignoring that they're doing just that.
Just look at how much space settlements are taking up in the West bank. They're just doing it more slowly because they'll have useful agents like you to defend them after Palestinians inevitably resort to violence.
The US wouldn't even condemn the building of these settlements, even though their condemnation would do absolutely nothing.
Yea lets commit war crimes, who doesn’t want to live in such a world.
Defending what? Is it their land they're defending? Last time I checked Russia was claiming that the land belonged either to them or to an independent state. That would be attacking.
Yeah, the fact that your president sided with the colonizer was the most ironic shit ever . You’re fight for freedom is a terrorist act to Russia but i don’t side with a colonizer ever.
i’m not defending anything, i have no knowledge of the situation in israel and am not qualified to talk about the good and bad, but i’ve seen what hamas did, and i see that as a terrorism. and i will not let the comparison of us and hamas slide.
The only question that really matters for toilet paper is “texture”. If you have to start worrying about how much you’re spending on toilet paper get a bidet and a better diet.
tbh English isn’t that much better than french at that. Just in this sentence there are a bunch of syllables that don’t sound like they should. Y’all can’t even decide if color has a u in it 💀
Of course, but english is in the weird spelling side of the spectrum. For (maybe an extreme) example Japanese spelling bees must be boring af cause words are spelled exactly as they are said, and with few exceptions (in kana) every sound has only one character associated with it (two cause there’s a second alphabet/syllabary with them)
On the flipside they also have literally thousands of characters in yet a third alphabet because reading only the phonetic ones is a pain in the butt and there are so many homonyms oh my god
What’s frustrating to me as a person who’s generally against violence is that Israel has a pretty elite secret police force and pretty elite special forces that they (apparently) haven’t used at all to deal with the actual perpetrators of the October 7th massacre & kidnapping.
They just started bombing thousands of civilians to kill dozens, maybe hundreds of Hamas militants.
Like, surely they could have cut the head off the Hamas Snake with surgical strike teams infiltrating Gaza, probably the West Bank, and international locations in Qatar or wherever the leadership is.
Reasonable people could conclude that Israel had to respond to Oct 7th, and that the best target would be Hamas. I can’t fathom how any reasonable people could conclude that bombing groups of people with 90% or more innocent civilians and the rest possible militants is a good response.
I can imagine that UNreasonable people might conclude that all Palestinians are guilty by association (because Hamas is their Netanyahu-supported elected government) and they’re all militants (even the babies). Or those unreasonable people might believe that Palestinians aren’t people worthy of protection.
Israel could simply have not starved the people living in the Gaza strip to death over the course of decades while occasionally flicking airstrikes at them, which they were doing long before October.
I often wonder how people can forget this considering Isreal has been commiting genocide, ethnic cleansing, hate crimes since it’s inception like wtf ?
It's actually surprising that Hamas didn't get more votes in the election, when the other option was getting ruled by Fatah. Who would want the enemy's puppet governing them?
What’s the point of voting when you could have your entire family obliterated at any instant ? Women in palestine have said that their only wish when their children dies in a strike is to find their bodies intact and not pieces by pieces. Just remembering these words is making me sick and They’re living it. Fuck Isreal and anyone that defend it.
I think you are overestimating the value of special forces. We kind of mythologize them with our media, but they are not action heroes. You arnt going to send them into a hostile city where Hamas is not in uniform, planned for the retaliation, had time to prepare, and expect them to come out with low casualties.
Even the US after 9-11 didn’t just send in spec ops after Osama, they went in whole hog. And that was estimated at about 4.5 million casualties all around.
It sucks, but Hamas isn’t going to start wearing uniforms and abiding by the Geneva convention any time soon.
Actually, weren’t they severely embarrassed by those recent attacks, having been totally caught off guard? Maybe we’re overestimating just how good their forces really are.
What you’re saying is during an active war they haven’t heavily publicised what their special forces and secret agents have been doing?
I say heavily because they have mentioned various success their covert units have had, one example is them sneaking into a tunnel while everyone was busy firing rockets at Israel then taking all the secret documents revealing the location of other tunnel networks and fighters.
Of course Israel wants to find the kidnapped people and free them, of course they want to kill or capture the Hamas leaders, and of course they don’t want to kill innocent people. Those aren’t easy things in the situation they’re in.
The leader of Hamas assuming he’s back from his recent trip to Iran is at home in Doha, the local commanders are in their bases deep under hospitals, the fighters are dressed as civilians and of course get added to the civilian casualties lists - especially the teenagers fighting for Hamas…
People act like Israel is in an easy position but that really isn’t close to reality.
I was able to find the movie on YouTube with A seance scene which however does not seem to be the same scene (or at least a different angle) from the picture. If anyone has the time to scroll through all 4h of that movie the scene in the picture might be in there.
Don’t do this. If someone makes it clear they’re not OK with something and you immediately do it, that’s rapist shit.
It creates a culture where people feel hesitant to call stuff out because of the fear they’ll get immediately bullied for it.
EDIT: 42 downvotes YIKES rape culture is out of control!! Maybe I need to look into deanonymizing votes so I can clear house, because that is beyond unacceptable.
I can 100% understand where you’re coming from. It’s okay if you don’t feel comfortable with this kind of humor.
I’m not going to touch on what topics or humor are appropriate in what places, that’s a big conversation with very few black and white answers. Please just keep in mind that some of us use dark humor as a way of coping, of reducing the emotional strain by making light of our trauma in a safe way, or by using humor to generate empathy in others who might not have experienced the same trauma. Humor doesn’t have to tear things down, it can bring people together. I also don’t want to touch on the “rapist shit” comment, so… I won’t.
To anyone else reading, please try to be a bit more understanding when people politely ask you to chill. It’s usually not their business, especially in public, but please don’t immediately get defensive. I have the right to walk down the street screaming at people, as an extreme example, but no one would defend me if I was doing that and someone else asked me to stop. Most people are automatically aware of unwritten social norms and stuff, this is just part of that compromise we work with every day. Sometimes, you should ignore the person asking you to tone it down. Sometimes, you should tone it down.
I usually don’t subscribe to the “everyone is right” BS, but I think it’s true here. There’s no bad person in this, just a difference of how people process things.
I’m just now catching up on this thread. I honestly don’t understand what you’re talking about. Nazis are bad. War criminals are bad. Sexual assault is bad, and perpetrators are 100% in the wrong, now and forever. Some things are very clear, and some things are nuanced. That’s just life.
Morality isn’t a free-for-all, and I don’t think anything I said would have suggested otherwise.
The reason nuance is important, is because we get actually get Nazis and shit if we make everything an absolute. I’m not advocating for anything goes, I’m saying that some things are complicated and simple answers don’t always work. How people use humor is one of those things that can be complicated. I know dark humor definitely helps me cope with and overcome my trauma when I’m in a dark place. It also helps me bond a little bit when I meet someone else will so uses dark humor. It’s okay if that’s not the same for you. People are different.
I’m not angry or trying to be mean or talk down or anything like that. I also don’t automatically think you’re a bad person, even though I feel like that insult was uncalled for. And I know some of the other people browsing here were kind of assholes, so, I’m sorry about them.
Anyway we don’t need to continue talking about this if you don’t want to. The entire thing is kind of stressful for me, so I might not check my messages for a few days anyway. If you do want to talk more, I’m open to that. But if you’re just going to be rude, I’ll probably not respond.
Heh, you can tell that you’re trying to talk with a reasonable person when the response to your fairly diplomatic comment was to compare you to pedophiles defending Nazi war criminals.
But in any case, I do agree with you that I absolutely could have handled the original response much better by not being an outright smartass twat, but I’m honestly not too sure the outcome would have been any better considering this frankly incredible tantrum going on about rape culture being out of control and calling people who are trying to defuse the situation pedophiles.
I was having a bit of a crummy day and felt like being snarky, but this… whatever this is that’s going on is just something else entirely.
I did specifically say that yes, being a snarky asshole was stupid of me and I could have not been one in my initial answer. So, yes, I was an asshole and that’s not something I or anybody else should be doing. That’s not defensiveness, that’s me saying I screwed up.
But can you honestly tell me that you think it’s sensible behavior from this other person to compare a completely random onlooker who’s trying to defuse this scene to a pedophile defending Nazi war criminals? Like, does that strike you as a good way for someone to handle it when there’s a conflict and someone from the outside tries to be diplomatic and calm things down?
I also really don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish with these replies. Just popping up replying to my comments with petty insults doesn’t seem to paint you in a light that’s any better than my initial twattery towards the original commenter. If you want to actually say something, take a moment and formulate your thoughts? Because this… whatever it is you’re doing really isn’t any better than my original snark, so if you agree with the original commenter than I should have done better (and frankly I agree with them on that point at least), maybe don’t take your turn at being an antagonistic asshole just because you feel like venting – the way I did?
Right, and is being on mobile a good reason for you to keep this snark going? It seems like you’d rather just choose to be pissed at me or something and continue this ribbing instead of, well, any other option.
If you think that being an asshole is generally not a good thing and that I was wrong to do it, why do you figure you’re justified in acting like this?
But can you honestly tell me that you think it’s sensible behavior from this other person to compare a completely random onlooker who’s trying to defuse this scene to a pedophile defending Nazi war criminals?
I’ve resigned myself to the fact that there’s just s lot of places on lemmy where “dark humor” and CSAM reign supreme, can’t say I blame others for having a stronger response.
I just now came back to this thread and started reading. I was avoiding it, because honestly it was intimidating when I suddenly had a bunch of replies about something I knew might be controversial.
I don’t know what you’re talking about with Nazis and shit, but I guess I’m about to find out…
You don’t get to control the speech of everyone around you just because you personally have a problem with something. You can ask politely, but your control over other people starts and ends there.
Skipped straight to the “you’re a rapist for making this joke”, huh?
Maybe you can just like block me and move on with your life? It’s not like I’m going to remove this meme just because you think it’s making fun of trauma, and you’re not going to get me to repent my evil ways either. Or do you want to lecture me some more, maybe call me a rapist again?
I didn't read that as "you are a rapist", I read that as "this is the same kind of non-empathetic and hostileness that rapists display" and implied "do better"
So I get why you feel attacked but it's a legit criticism
Not sure that’s much better. Did I handle that tactfully? No. Is that grounds for comparing me to a rapist? Also no.
I just really don’t have much patience with people who assume that it’s everybody’s responsibility to shield them from things they somehow find either offensive, traumatizing, or making fun of their trauma. While I’m not unsympathetic to trauma or completely unwilling to accommodate it at all, if we clean the meme community of everything that someone finds somehow either offensive or triggering, there won’t be much left here – considering how much you have to reach to say this meme is somehow grievously making fun of trauma or even related to trauma, the bar for removing “offensive” content isn’t going to be high.
So, tl;dr, just about anything can be offensive or triggering to someone, so where on earth do we draw the line? Again, I’m not unsympathetic, but is it not a bit ridiculous to come barging in with the apparent assumption that something as inoffensive as this meme be either removed or that they get some sort of apology for it or whatever their end goal was in their mind?
Edit: just to drive the point home because I’m irritated, but despite what could be assumed based on my twattery in some comments, I’m a fairly sensitive person. There’s a bunch of subjects that I’m very sensitive about, but I’m not going to go around telling people that their post about $SUBJECT_MATTER is offensive to me; my sensitivities aren’t anybody else’s problem, they’re my problem (well, mine and my therapist’s). And this doesn’t mean I’d eg. shut up about seeing blatant racism or whatever, but things I figure aren’t going to be more widely offensive or “touchy”.
While I’m not unsympathetic to trauma or completely unwilling to accommodate it at all, if we clean the meme community of everything that someone finds somehow either offensive or triggering, there won’t be much left here
So, tl;dr, just about anything can be offensive or triggering to someone, so where on earth do we draw the line?
I didn’t find the post to be particularly funny, nor triggering, but the responses to someone complaining by doubling down on the exact thing they just complained about is very telling about the culture you’re cultivating on beehaw.
If you had read carefully the beehaw.org TOS, you’d know there’s a fine-print clause that nominates you, personally, as the ambassador of all of its communities; everyone else is contractually obligated to upvote comments on your posts where you make fun of… uh, people who have had sex education or poor English speechcraft idk.
Wanna go check out my profile page, leave a sulky reply on a few more comments? Insulting the quality of my memes was a terrific idea, but maybe you could team up with the original offendee who’s now convinced that this post is an indication of rape culture being out of control, and see what sort of absolutely devastating insults you can come up with? Could call me a fascist for example, that’d be pretty bad?
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