Now I imagine the Israeli president will use this like a smoke screen, not only to criticize reservists, but also to hide his criminal intent.
This also helps Saudi Arabia and Syria, as they will be able to hide their military operations under the guise that they are only acting on a more active Israel.
This situation only helps the people in power. It does nothing for the civilians who are going to face the pushback from this. Or already have.
You realize that all peace talks have failed, because the Palestinian governments refused any deal that required them to recognize Israel’s right to exist. Every deal.
And before that, when Israel accepted the offer by the British, the Palestinians didn’t accept it because the surrounding countries essentially said they would kill all of the Jews in Israel and take the entire area. Which they tried. Twice. And lost. Twice. And in the ceasefire terms, those countries granted Israel those disputed territories. Actually much more than they currently have, as they gave back most of it to Egypt in peace talks with them.
Palestine could have been a country many times over. But they do not want peace. They wants the whole of Israel.
And during all of those time, things have just gotten worse. And the hatred between the two sides grows. But the only thing that has stopped Palestine from being a country is the fact that the governments of Palestine believe negotiations start and stop at having it all.
It’s an interesting read. I’m sure there are better sources, but the 40s-80s were a crazy time, with basically all of their neighbors declaring war on them, Israel managing to hold off five different countries, then the UN stopping the war only to have egypt or syria re-arm and try again. I didn’t know that the USSR was also helping and hindering at various points. Basically all Jewish peoples immediately fled all Arab countries, peppered with other countries whenever there was a rise in anti-jewish sentiments (eg, in Russia).
This is a lie. In the late 70s and early 80s even the PLO was pushing for a two state solution and even removed “Anti-Zionism” from its official goals in the 90s. I’m not going to say everyone in Palestine has always supported one solution or another like you’re saying. I’m not going to say that everyone in Israel wants to eliminate all Palestinians from Israeli territory either, although many do, especially the political powers who blocked the two state solution from the other side during that time. This simplistic reading that Palestinians are nothing more than frothing-mouthed mass-murderers is disgusting especially considering who has had power over whom in recent decades.
War is not a heroic struggle of good vs evil, it is a series of economic and political developments which have been transpiring for decades. There has been a lot of bad behavior generally which lead us to this point. Let’s not offer absurd ideas in times of turmoil like this. That’s not going to help any innocent Palestinian or Isreali civilians getting caught in the crossfire.
saw a translator post elsewhere for these terms as used by Israeli media - critical condition means head wounds, very unlikely to survive; seriously wounded means living changing injuries. if i can find the post again i’ll link.
Gotta figure that with the arty and planes bombing Gaza, the Palestinian KIA is the same. So that’s 1200 in a little over 24 hours and counting. Big number.
I’m not sure that will help anything. Some of that land is used for defensive purposes. The normalization agreements with Saudi Arabia, now delayed due to this stupidity, did have provisions for turning land back to Palestinian control. It didn’t seem to make much difference to Hamas.
Hamas is funded and armed by Iran. Iranian leadership really doesn’t want Saudi Arabia to make a formal normalisation agreement with Israel. Hamas leadership is dedicated to maintaining the wealth they gain from being Iranian proxies. The rest of Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel.
Hamas is also fighting Fatah for control of the West Bank and the Palestinian Authority government. The worse things are for residents of the West Bank, the better it is for Hamas.
So it’s in Hamas’ interests, both as proxies for Iran and for their own in the West Bank, to do everything they can to force the Arab world to choose sides and scupper every normalisation agreement, especially the big daddy Saudi one.
You realize the attacks are coming from Gaza where Israel did pull out, and then the people immediately elected a terrorist group to lead the country. That group then put the destruction of Israel as one of their main platforms.
I mean if anything this is showing why Israel doesn’t withdraw from the West Bank.
the sheer number of Israeli civilian fatalities is staggering. so far the best count only has 80 or so of the dead being military or police and so the rest of the 600 and counting are presumably civilians.
This could see tens of thousands dead, 90% of which will be Palestinian and most of whom had nothing to do with the attacks. It could also be the last hurrah for Hamas.
I honestly don’t understand this one, and I used to do this for a living. Terrorist attacks frequently make sense. 9/11 successfully engaged the US in a “global war on terror.” It resulted in a massive burning of resources and an engagement lasting far longer than anyone anticipated. It failed in that al Qaeda has effectively been rendered inoperative, there was no pan-Arab or pan-Islamic movement that rose up to strike down the current world order, and the leadership did not generally get to retire to a life of quiet reflection. But at least it was comprehensible.
This is looking more like the equivalent of the Charles Manson Helter Skelter attack, where some psychotic thought he could ignite a national race war with an incomprehensible slaughter.
If it were not so big, I’d think it was a red flag operation. It’s just that stupid and the consequences are just that dire. This is handing Bobo exactly what he needs on a silver platter.
Agree. Near as I can figure the normalization of relations between Saudi and Isreal looked like it was going to come together. Both countries are an enemy to Iran. Iran did this to stop that agreement. Also to consider is…
Who funds Hamas? Iran.
Who funds Iran? Russia
it would certainly be in Russia’s interest to deflect the west’s attention from Ukraine
I am not sure “Russia funds iran”. Yes, they both have developed deeper trade relations since trump cut of Iran more. But so have the relations between iran and China increased.
All of these countries try working together in mutual benefit against the west. But I wouldn’t call any of them puppets of another.
The attack did not occur because of his nationality, it happened because of his religion, because of his bullshit superstitious religion… ya got that…? The guy could have been a sweedish muslim and I bet you 100% and he’d have attacked for some reason based on Islam…again religion. He Could have been an Egyptian Christian and had a beef for the Romans being the executioners of christ…once again religion.
It’s Embarrassing for any nationality when this kind of mindless bad behavior happens, but you can stop debating its about anything but that persons own barbaric, irrational dogmas.
No this is what happens when terrorists overwhelm a border crossing and stsrt indiscriminately murdering civilians, then carry their mutilated bodies around as literal flags as they celebrate the murder in the street
I assume you’ve been just as outraged and outspoken about atrocities carried out by the IDF?
Is killing civilians fine as long as they don’t do it too “barbarically” for you?
Should Palestinians just lay back and continue to let the settlers take what little of their homeland they have left? They’re being genocided. They’re fighting back in whatever way they’re capable
“This is WELL beyond anything that Israel has done in the last few decades. Civilians killed during military actions in Gaza are not even remotely similar to this” why? they’re still dead.
Exactly. They’re dead. In the end it doesn’t even matter how they died, they’re just dead. Is one way worse? Yes, but the result is still horrific. They. Are. Dead. Noone can take it back. Does it make worse that crowd applauds the killing? Yes. But same goes for the Israeli crowd (like the one in Kneset) applauding killing terrorist together with their families and children…
The older I am the more disgusted of all the war pigs and warmongers I am. As a teen I scoffled at hippies and their beliefs, today I’d shake their hands. Fuck war, fuck killing, fuck war pigs.
It seems your issue isn’t that civilians are dead, but that you are actually paying attention and seeing it now that it’s happening to the colonizers. When it happens in Gaza you don’t pay attention to the images, you don’t empathize with the families destroyed.
But now there’s a relatively (to all that the IDF has done) small attack from Palestine and suddenly it’s front page news everywhere.
the primary reason Hamas has political power and the political support to attack Israel in this manner is because Israel:
treats all Palestinians as second-class citizens and subjects them to a system of political, social, and economic apartheid
holds millions of Palestinians in squalid and inhuman conditions, and seizes the territory of millions more in the name of a violent settler project
subjects the vast majority of Palestinians to state-sponsored discrimination, terror, indiscriminate bombing, and political violence
leaves Palestinians no feasible democratic path to the rights they should have in their current state or the state of Israel, making armed struggle inevitable
you can and should condemn Hamas, but it is inarguable that Israel routinely does worse—overwhelmingly to people just as innocent as the ones Hamas is murdering—which is what makes attacks like this inevitable. you cannot do what Israel does and not expect the outcome to be violence, and it is incumbent on Israel, who holds all the actual power in this dynamic, to break the cycle and stop using every terrorist attack perpetuated against it as an excuse to roll innocent heads.
Cool so I respond to an antisemite saying that Israel refusing to supply power to a state that just declared war on it is punitive, and your response was to say it’s Israel’s fault.
i mean, yeah. Netanyahu is saying he’s going to basically reduce Gaza to rubble when 99% of Gazans are innocents and can’t leave Gaza because Israel is blockading them. Israeli bombs have killed far more innocents than actual terrorists in the Strip as seen in my citation. this is the exact behavior that allows Hamas to thrive. Israel, as a state, has the power to not do this and to seek more productive options—but does it anyways because it simply doesn’t care about the humanity of Palestinians and considers all of them acceptable collateral damage in killing Hamas members.
Name-calling (accusing someone of being an antisemite) is NOT nice. We have one rule, here at Beehaw, to be(e) nice. This is your only warning. Enjoy your seven day vacation from Beehaw.
One of the occupational hazards of being a hitman is that your client who hired you will have you killed after you perform your services in order to silence you.
Maybe, but much less likely. They’re probably foot soldiers and their orders came from their own gangs leadership, and not those responsible for ordering the assininatons. So that specific chain has effectively been broken.
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