Unfortunately as the old Cold War imperialist-nationalist crowd dies off they’re being replaced with far right theocratic authoritarians. The first bunch would fuck any other country for shortsighted national advantage despite long-term global instability that resulted in us constantly “putting out fires”. The second group is willing to fuck the citizens for shortsighted personal advantage no matter what it burns down.
Realism diplomacy is just 19th century style imperialism and interempire alliance with a new name. Look how he appeased Putin during the beginning of russo-ukrainian war. This person has no moral guide and will throw anyone, friend or foe, under the bus to gain perceived nation interest. In the long run it is exactly those moves that harmed US credibility the most.
A real life monster who took pleasure from death of millions. Oh and the people who defend this terrorist may suffer the same fate as his victims theintercept.com/2023/…/henry-kissinger-death/
There were “few people who have had a hand in as much death and destruction, as much human suffering, in so many places around the world as Henry Kissinger,” said veteran war crimes prosecutor Reed Brody.
What a powerful counterpoint. I mean clearly because you do not agree I’m a bootlicker.
After all your echo chamber developed point of view is clearly correct.
I mean how could it not be? You didn’t come up with it yourself. You just looked at what everyone was saying and made a juvenile response to try and feel connected to the group.
Should we talk more about your need to feel like you have relevance in the group or are we done?
And that is my point. Show me in my post where I praised the man?
I didn’t. I called out you lot for bandwagoning and group think. and you clearly are.
Because now you are making claims about my post which clearly do not exist.
I clearly directed this to the flood of “ding dong the wicked witch is dead” posters who know nothing about his achievements or what was LEVELLED AGAINST HIM BY IS CRITICS.
I clearly stated that he had critics. But you lot only saw that I was not jumping on the bash him bandwagon and then concluded that I’m a supporter because it went against status quo. That is the fucking definition of group think.
Personally I am not a fan of his politics or him as a person.
But for fuck sake, you lot are acting like he was the devil.
The irony of telling someone to “go outside and get a hobby” for posting online while conversely doing the same thing, coupled with the cliche of claiming “you’re a troll” because they have an opinion you disagree with.
Well done for double scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Can I expect more of your cutting wit in future replies? 🙄
You will surely get some upvotes and reinforce your view that you are right while yelling into the echo chamber with your fingers firmly pressed into your ears. 👏
I mean the fact your post was as cliche as a 16 year old could muster and still attempt to take a high ground on an intellectual premise is arrogance of the highest accord.
Oh of course it is, unless you want to claim it isn’t. I already addressed this with my “hurr durr Nobel Peace Prize irrelevant because globalisation bad”.
You literally just started the Nobel Peace Prize is irrelevant, without qualification.
And now you want to claim I’m not “answering anything”.
I have made my best effort to answer replies. But why should I do more than what you are doing?
So please, as a Swede, somehow giving you special knowledge of the subject, explain why the Nobel Peace prize is irrelevant? I mean it started in Norway, so not even in your country. 🙄
I mean was it irrelevant when the Red Cross won it twice? What about when it was won by Bertha von Suttner? What about Kofi Annan? Or Narges Mohammadi?
Or is it maybe that it is only irrelevant when it doesn’t support your position?
The Paris Peace accords leading to a ceasefire in Vietnam were signed on January 27, 1973. To critics, “peace with honor” didn’t look that different from options available when Nixon first took power: “Kissinger and Nixon wasted four years of negotiations with the Vietnamese communists, agreeing to virtually the same peace terms in 1973 that were on the table in 1969,” argues Brigham. In total, 2.5 million to 3 million Vietnamese and other Indochinese and 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam. Hundreds more were missing in action.
On the other side of the equation, a consultant to the Johnson Administration on the peace process stood ready to pass information from the 1968 peace talks to Nixon, who then did his utmost to sabotage them, even though, according to the Logan Act, it is illegal for U.S. citizens “to engage in unauthorized diplomacy with foreign countries with intent to ‘influence the measures or conduct’ of a foreign government.” The informant from within the talks? None other than Henry Kissinger, who used his role as Johnson’s adviser at the peace talks to help secure Nixon’s 1968 victory.
You don’t get to claim you contributed to peace when you deliberately stalled it and lengthened the war and then achieved literally nothing at all in terms of improving the terms of the piece. His role in the negotiations was to ensure more people died.
No I’m not, I literally outlined in my initial post that there are critics of Kissenger.
I’m outlining that the subject is a dogpile of people engaging in group think where the only valid opinion is “he badman” and there is no honest discourse.
Well he was instrumental in ending the Vietnam War. He and his family fled the Nazis in 1938, then he joined the us army to fight them in 1943.
His views on defeating communism meant he also advocated for some fucked up shit. And most of his work in policy is why I’m not a fan of him.
But it’s not a binary thing. He is not the devil. Not even close to some of the people in power today.
My point has and continues to be that there is no discourse going on right now. There is just a dogpile.
I didn’t want to argue about the virtues of Kissenger, or lack. I wanted to point out the large amount of group think people are going into on THE SUBJECT.
Yeah I’m sure he fled his country at 16 then chose to fight against the Nazis 4 years later because he was focused on “political power”. That’s fucking ridiculous and completely unsubstantiated
And again, IamRight links are bullshit. Show me published papers or edu links.
Yes they can, hence why this unabashed vitriol is clearly just Lemmy group think.
Because while you may not agree with the fact he is closely associated with the Republicans. He did get a Nobel Peace Prize.
And while I never praised the man, the fact I called out people for bandwagoning, only for the responses to be more bandwagoning and the attempt to frame what I posted as support for the man clearly shows the level of blind indoctrination of “this bad, this good” group think going on here.
Also he was a staunch anti communist. Probably the real reason for the outpouring of hatred.
You think you’re unique coz you’re contrarian and can think for yourself. You’re just more interested in being edgy.
And it’s not just lemmy, all of media has come out to remember who Kissinger really was. Except for Reuters. They suck.
Anyway, be brave and pick a side. There’s no high road here by taking a neutral stance on Kissinger. He was a monster and should be remembered as such.
I don’t think I’m unique at all, in fact I know I’m not. Humans are pretty predictable because of the fact we are not unique.
However your assertion that I’m contrarian because I’m not supporting the dogpile, is simply an assertion that my position is anti popular in it’s goal. And further you are assuming that the group think going on right now is the popular opinion amongst general society.
And while I would not be so bold to claim that “all of the media” is on this dogpile, I would ask if that is more a reflection of the media you choose to embrace, rather than the sentiment of general society.
Finally I’m not going to fall for the trick of claiming I’m some flakey fence sitter because I “failed to choose a side”, because I never claimed to be on Kissinger’s. I just don’t like this dogpile, it seems disingenuous to me. So someone needs to call it out.
I pointed out the huge amount of group think going on with this subject right now because the only opinions being expressed, and certainly the only being supported in this circle are those whom advocate to portray Kissenger as the devil.
I already said I’m not a fan of Kissenger and I disagree with pretty much all of his policies, but that opinion notwithstanding, the level of vitriol going on at the moment is nothing more than dogpiling using populist pandering and someone should at least call it out.
In the past few hours the feed has been full of this crap.
And you’re the cliche regurgitator of other’s opinions without adding content to discussion.
In case that was unclear. You’re the type of person who interrupts a discussion to go “oh yeah what that other person said”, because you think it gains favour, cannot add value to a discussion and feel the need to be heard for you own self indulgence.
Are we done with irrelevant posts yet or should we go on?
Unlike yourself I don’t need to take other people’s words and regurgitate them. Nor do I need cheap parlour tricks like inserting what I wish to argue against as the premise of my argument.
That was kind of the point. Sorry it was too nuanced for you.
Let me simply.
You are adding no value to this discussion because your comments are irrelevant and superficial.
Why do you feel uncomfortable with criticizing a mass murdering war criminal?
The dude didn’t hate communism for their values but for belonging to the enemy. He was a Jew but hated his own people (he said he’d gave been an antisemite if he wasn’t born a Jew, with a motivation as asinine as “they must have been doing something wrong to be persecuted for 2000 years”, as if he didn’t know what propaganda was), including ignoring executions of Jews in USSR.
He personally ordered THOUSANDS of bombings in Cambodia and in many many other countries, was responsible for multiple coups and replacing democratic leaders with dictators (this is not something you do if you genuinely belive in democracy over communism), and was an overall monster.
I mean really? How many unsubstantiated claims do you want to make, and must I really call them out?
A “mass murderer”, really, can you provide evidence other than IamRight weblinks? No you cannot, a legitimate criticism would be that he turned a blind eye to war crimes, he was not a mass murderer. That’s nothing more than hyperbola.
He was “A Jew but hated his own people”. Wow okay, yeah sure, that’s so egregious it doesn’t require rebuttal.
In any case, where did I state that I rejected criticism? I simply pointed out that Lemmy got a hardon today for dogpiling on this subject and there is no discourse, there is only group think.
I never claimed that discourse doesn’t require rebuttal, in fact invite it. Honest debate is important.
Now I’m not saying this directly to you, but most of the replies I’m getting are not that. And most of the posts and threads about this subject are not that. It’s an echo chamber.
I just don’t want more irrelevant “lol you stupid” responses because they are pointless.
Now I’m probably going to piss you off here. But I don’t put a lot of stock in random .com and .net type links.
If they are .edu or at least well reviewed wiki article then I’ll consider them. Because I can also find links that support any argument and claim any “truth”.
Among the terrible things republicans did, there’s making it impossible to point out how much of a terrible person Clinton is to well meaning but manipulated folks
hey. remember gwb? invaded iraq, caused the death of millions. now spends his life painting. remember his vice dick? they love hillary. its mutual, after all they belong to the same group.
“Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević.”
Moreso in that blood-crimson, with-large-ominous-hand-constructs purgatory known as RED SPACE, with OMORI's true form constantly berating their souls for their unspeakable transgressions towards their fellow humans.
The US really looks at war criminals and goes “yeah, they should be able to live out the rest of their lives in peace in their own home, surrounded by loved ones” while at the same time locking up black guys for 20 years because they smoked a funny cigarette. And other countries still take them seriously. We’re all idiots, no exceptions.
The US Dollar being the international standard currency of business and international trade does that… Of course having a military and military budget that exceeds the sum of the next 5 biggest militaries helps.
Do you think they just happily released all of those who were previously convicted and sentenced for possession just because we may not be as harsh with the sentencing now?
There are absolutely people whose lives have been ruined over it, still sitting in prison for being the wrong color in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I’d be curious to know if there’s any confirmation that personal use/possession doesn’t lead to jail time for anybody in the us anymore.
It's hard to explain but his continued existance was like a shadow over us. The world feels a little bit better.
I was happy when Pinochet died, Pol Pot died, Suharto died, Comrade Duch died, etc but this man was complicit in all of their crimes and many more besides.
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