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ValueSubtracted, in Repetitive Epics
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.

They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…

inappropriatecontent,

Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar
buckykat, in Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?

The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive.

ApostleO,

Sure, but what about random crewmen, like in my example? Are they expected to make such a decision?

buckykat,

They should take it to their captain

ValueSubtracted, in Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.

At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.

ApostleO,

I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.

Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).

It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.

GregorGizeh, (edited ) in Vulcan Sex Workers

From that voyager episode with horny belana we learn that Vulcans are basically assigned a mate, so the chances are slim that a vulcan would need release without an outlet. And aside from that, the ponfarr can also be dealt with through meditation and discipline, probably particularly created for the situations you mention where there actually is no partner available.

qantravon,

Vorik and Tuvok both claim the problem can be dealt with through meditation, but both of them also fail to resolve the issue in this way, so we don’t know if that’s actually an effective treatment.

There’s also lots of ways a Vulcan could end up single, not to mention we’ve seen at least two instances of Vulcans rejecting their arranged marriages (T’Pol and T’Pring), so there’s no guarantee any given Vulcan has a mate, despite their customs.

T156,

In the T’Pring case, we also see that sex isn’t the only outlet. A fight to the death is just as effective, with Spock ending up not needing to bed T’Pring, having resolved his Ponn Farr by fighting Kirk.

While the cultural custom is a fight to the death, it is possible that some form of extended, high-stakes physical combat might be enough to relieve things, but Vulcan sensibilities might simply prevent them from choosing that as an option.

qantravon,

This is true, and ultimately fighting is how Vorik’s Pon Farr is resolved as well. So there could also be a Vulcan fight club for those afflicted.

MimicJar, in Vulcan Sex Workers

It seems like a Vulcan Mind Meld can cure just about anything.

In “Flashback” from Voyager Tuvok melds with a close family member, in this case Janeway, to fix his disease.

In “Endgame” from Voyager it is implied that a meld will cure Tuvok’s disease.

In “Sarek” from TNG melding with Picard resolves Sarek’s emotional control.

I would expect rather than a sex industry they have those that specialize in mind melds. Perhaps a specific family member.

Having a backup option would still be logical, so random sex is still on the table.

FfaerieOxide,
@FfaerieOxide@kbin.social avatar

I would expect rather than a sex industry they have ... a specific family member.

ewwwwww

BobbyNevada,

I see you have broken both of your arms. How illogical…

T156, (edited )

In “Sarek” from TNG melding with Picard resolves Sarek’s emotional control.

In this case, at least, it was less a cure, and more temporarily offloading it to someone else to deal with. Basically the equivalent of Lwaxana affecting the entire Enterprise when she was going through The Phase, or someone with an injured leg leaning on another person to use as a crutch. Except that Sarek was relying on Picard’s emotional processing capabilities.

Presumably his symptoms would return when he ended the psychic connection.

ColonelSanders, in Vulcan Sex Workers

I always got the impression that Vulcan society operated similar to traditional Japanese or other societies where couples were “arranged” by families. Not sure about the one off cases though so maybe there is some kind of sex industry given the physiological toll if it’s not addressed in time

qantravon,

It does seem to be primarily on an arranged marriage system, but there are plenty of exceptions. Pairings that don’t come together for some reason, partners that die either due to age or accident, etc.

ColonelSanders,

As I recall on Voyager with a little coaxing Tuvok was able to use the holodeck to get “relief” so I’d imagine the same goes for most vulcans who might be on long away missions

qantravon,

It did work for Tuvok, but not for Vorik, so not a totally effective solution.

T156,

I’m not sure that it is. Voyager likely only went with the holodeck solution because they were stranded in the delta quadrant, and no other alternatives were available.

Within the Federation, a Vulcan who felt the Ponn Farr would take leave, like Spock tried to do, or couples would try to serve on the same ship/station together to minimise issues.

inappropriatecontent, in The Leif Ericson Class Incident

If the Leif Ericson class didn’t exist, how could it be in the handbook??!

Wooster,
@Wooster@startrek.website avatar

Asking the deep questions here.

T’Lyn thinks it may be the result of a temporal wake, while Boimler thinks this should be brought to the attention of the Department of Temporal Investigations.

ValueSubtracted, in The Leif Ericson Class Incident
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

The interesting thing about cars like this, in which something is literally erased from reality, is that it’s completely victimless.

One cannot destroy that which never existed to begin with. From that perspective, I’d say Spock made the right call.

Wooster,
@Wooster@startrek.website avatar

I mean, that’s easy to say, because we’re not attached to the Leif Ericsson class or anyone onboard.

But would the same argument be made if instead it was Bajor, or Kronos that disappeared from existence?

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

Well that’s the thing - something can’t really “disappear from existence,” unless we’re talking about something that did exist and was destroyed.

But if it never existed at all…well, there’s literally nothing lost.

The exception to this would be if Kirk and his crew remembered the Cerritos existing before the time travel shenanigans.

T156, (edited )

But if it never existed at all…well, there’s literally nothing lost.

But from an objective, non-linear perspective, the USS Leif Ericson did exist, before it was erased. A temporal agent with a timeline map would be able to follow the ship across its own personal timeline, until the point where it abruptly ends because the timeline it is currently in caused it to be erased.

It’s similar to the Federation and billions of Borg lives existing and not existing in First Contact, or any of the myriad times the Federation was erased by time travel, and then restored.

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

Even accepting this to be true, Spock sure wouldn’t have any way of knowing, or any reason to care.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Where?

NOPper,

Spock just rolls with time travel ever since he went back, pretended he was his distant cousin, and saved his childhood self from venomous space wolves or whatever that was.

edgemaster72, in Raktajino... has liquor in it?
@edgemaster72@lemmy.world avatar

Only when O’Brien makes it

Corgana, in Repetitive Epics
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar

I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s The Turin Horse which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.

Not quite an “epic” in the usual sense, but absolutely repetitive and a surrender to economic powers beyond one’s control.

inappropriatecontent, in Repetitive Epics

I don’t know what the most similar novel to The Neverending Sacrifice might be, but I think the exact opposite is probably the 1970s novels satirizing the British Raj called The Flashman Papers. They are incredibly funny, highly offensive, beautiful assaults on the landed gentry, set during one of the most incompetent, badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan in the history of badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan–the British one.

No, not the American one with British help–the actual British one, from way back in the seventeenth century.

charonn0, in Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

Chakotay once used the TPD as an excuse to not answer a question from Janeway.

And she just accepted it.

charonn0, in Repetitive Epics
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

The closest I can think of–at least as far as multi-generation epics–would be Wilbur Smith novels.

ElderWendigo, in Repetitive Epics

I feel like repetitive epic is like a Cardassian version of the dubious literary idea of The Hero’s Journey, adapted for the Cardassian heroic ideal of selfless sacrifice to the state. I think Garak would appreciate the “Rememberence of Earth’s Past” series (Three Body Problem) for the way that individual heroics take a backseat to the glory and survival of the state.

teft, (edited ) in Repetitive Epics
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August. It tells the story of a man who lives his life over and over again. Very interesting story and while not exactly like Garak’s repetitive epic its definitely in the same vein.

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