The inherent fallacy in your argument is that a link is a “bad” link simply because it goes to an original source instead of always being redirected to you via a third party that circumvents what you don’t like.
If someone posts a link to a original non-misinformation news article and it gets marked as a “bad” link, that’s actually a bug.
A link is not a bad link for going to the source. You’ve misunderstood the post and also failed to identify a logical fallacy (even had your understanding been correct).
Whether the link goes to the source or not is irrelevant. I’m calling it a bad link if it goes to a place that’s either enshitified and/or where the content is unreachable (source or not). This is more elaborate than what you’re used to. There’s more than a dozen variables that can make a link bad. Sometimes the mirror is worse than the source (e.g. archive*ph, which is a Cloudflared mirror site).
Sometimes a paywalled source is the first to report on something. Calling that link a bad link is nonsense.
90+% of the time, using reader mode will bypass paywalls anyway.
Many people don’t know all the websites to redirect things through without that, so calling their contribution “bad” just because they posted that link isn’t the greatest.
It’s not even like it’s that big an issue, because usually someone else comes along that provides an alt link in the replies, so saying that this is a social failure is also ridiculous, because both were provided between two people.
Also, the notion that you or anyone else is socially filtering non-misinformation news sources from the rest of us, because you don’t see the value in it, or cannot figure out how to bypass the paywall yourself, isn’t all that great either.
edit: it’s also worth pointing out that if some people contributing links happen to be subscribers to a news source, as a subscriber they won’t necessarily know that a certain article is paywalled for everyone else, until they share it and someone who isn’t a subscriber gets the notice.
You’re going to have to name this fallacy you keep talking about because so far you’re not making sense.
Sometimes a paywalled source is the first to report on something. Calling that link a bad link is nonsense.
One man’s bad link is another man’s good link. It’s nonsense to prescribe for everyone one definition of “bad”. What’s bad weather? Rain? I love rain. Stop trying to speak for everyone and impose your idea of “bad” on people.
Many people don’t know all the websites to redirect things through without that, so calling their contribution “bad” just because they posted that link isn’t the greatest.
So because someone might not know their link is bad, it ceases to be bad? Nonsense.
It’s not even like it’s that big an issue, because usually someone else comes along that provides an alt link in the replies,
(emphasis mine) Usually that does not happen.
so saying that this is a social failure is also ridiculous, because both were provided between two people.
This based on the false premise that usually bad links are supplemented by an alternate from someone else.
Also, the notion that you or anyone else is socially filtering non-misinformation news sources from the rest of us, because you don’t see the value in it, or cannot figure out how to bypass the paywall yourself, isn’t all that great either.
(emphasis mine) Every user can define an enshitified site how they want. If you like paywalls, why not have your user-side config give you a personalized favorable presentation of such links?
You don’t know what a logical fallacy is. Bob and Alice can disagree about whether the pizza tastes good or bad. There’s no fallacy there, just subjective disagreement.
At the time I couldn’t be bothered to respond to most of this reply of yours, because your responses were too ignorant to take seriously, but since you’re still arguing about this, and that other moronic post where you complain about devs, someone should tell you that this line you replied with here
Stop trying to speak for everyone and impose your idea of “bad” on people.
is a hilarious example of a total lack of self awareness, as this entire post of yours is trying to speak for others and impose your definition of what a “bad” link is on everyone else.
But keep on being an idiot. You apparently cannot code anything you want done, but feel like your contribution of providing criticism is somehow equal to the work of the devs who actually built the software before you came along. It’s just entitled stupidity to think they work for you or that you’re equal to them in any way.
Not to mention that your arguments regarding fair use and letting archive.org lead the way should flag you as a potential very expensive liability for every instance admin who cannot afford a copyright battle. It’s easy to thumb your nose at potential problems when you’re not actually in charge of or responsible for anything.
74 characters, but 203 bytes when they're UTF-8 encoded. My guess is that someone wasn't careful with (or had some technical reasons for) counting UTF-8 characters versus counting bytes, and taking away the last character brings it to 199/200 bytes and it fits into the field again.
I don’t mind a disagreement. Not at all. Infact I enjoy a good debate as long as both parties are doing it in good faith. This thread isn’t about that.
My suspicion lies with the entity which has air supremacy and has been dropping shitloads of bombs already. It’s not surprising that people like you will contort into any position which suits your interests.
You are banned because you tried to upload CSAM. How does anyone really think that CSAM is allowed anywhere here? You are either so ignorant that you dont understand how much of a pedo you are. You ASKED on multiple instance if you could upload CSAM.
You are NOT welcome in the fediverse. Pedophiles are in general NOT welcomed. You are a liability risk of every instance admin, just by your presence.
Like said in the Support Ticket, you will NEVER be unbanned any of your alts ( even this one ) will be banned.
I hope you understand that CSAM is illegal and you will get in trouble to even ASK to upload it anywhere.
I didn’t post any “CSAM”! I’m just trying to protest something I’m seeing that I think is unfair!
But many subreddits or forum sites don’t accept URLs, pictures, specific website URLs, or even a combination! Thereby hindering my ability to fully explain what I’m witnessing!
In this case, the sentences “It’s one thing to say a girl’s outfit is ‘too revealing’, it’s two things to photoshop out a girl’s cleavage to make her look ‘modest’ for a yearbook.” actually corresponded to several videos I beared witness to on Inside Edition’s YouTube channel.
You may disagree with it and may even be right, I didn’t bother watching all those videos. But the thing is, it’s always a potential liability for admins, and we’re at the mercy of what the law says and what a potential judge or jury would rule if brought to court.
And we all know how that goes when underage people are involved: everyone goes “but the children!”. Therefore, admins side with caution, because nobody wants to deal with legal trouble if they don’t have to. Just blur it and make everyone happy.
Plus, in the current AI landscape, the mere availability of nude children imagery even if it’s not sexually suggestive at all means someone can alter it to become so. People have already been arrested for that.
Nothing to do with people being too prude to see naked children. It’s about consent and what nasty people will inevitably do with it. Does that girl really want videos of her naked all over the porn sites even through heroic actions? Probably not.
But censoring a topless preteen girl who thought up an ingenious strategy to stay cool like her friends in the same stuffy room while at the same time not caring who’s around her? THAT’S REALLY CROSSING THE LINE!
Many subreddits or forum sites don’t accept URLs, pictures, specific website URLs, or even a combination! Thereby hindering my ability to fully explain what I’m witnessing!
In this case, the sentences “It’s one thing to say a girl’s outfit is ‘too revealing’, it’s two things to photoshop out a girl’s cleavage to make her look ‘modest’ for a yearbook.” actually corresponded to several videos I beared witness to on Inside Edition’s YouTube channel.
I actually tried to post that URL with that blurred 9yo girl in a subreddit in the past and you won’t believe this: I actually lost my reddit account for 2 days for “promoting nudity involving a minor”! Other sites like the adult video forums who accept uncensored nudity-based images I mentioned just delete my thread! Another site I recall banned me for 1 year for “spam” - even though I only made this protest post twice (after they removed it once).
So that meant I had to approach this from a different angle: after that experience, I got a little paranoid from using that said video URL to illustrate. So I tried explaining this protest without the URLs - and this is in conjunction with certain sites restricting my ability to post images, URLs, certain site URLs, or a combination. It seemed to end up making things worse! Because without the visual evidence, it makes it much harder to fully explain what I’m witnessing.
So without the URLs included - that visual illustration, on the sites I tried along with Lemmy World, it actually made things worse! That’s what lead Lemmy World mods to ban me for life for “CSAM” or made other people think I watched child porn when I clearly didn’t. The lack of visual evidence (due to my past reddit experience combined with the site’s posting restrictions) is what lead to this “pedophile” confusion.
I felt after Inside Edition uploaded that blurred 9yo girl video… I thought to myself “That’s the last straw!” Someone needs to protest these absurd censorship laws that they apply to the female human!
Why can males show most of their body but females can’t? - In most cases that is?
Children should have the same… rights to do things as any adult! It’s about possessing the knowledge capacity and I.Q level to safely execute this action. E.G, on those “Family Day” episodes of The Price is Right and Let’s Make a Deal; those kids made smart choices when picking the correct numbers to items to win a prize.
I’m not joking around here! This type of treatment towards the female human needs to stop - this includes race and age. - It’s like racist people, but in age form.
Does it look like I’m laughing for fun? Of course not! Since no one else is protesting this, and YouTube has a flawed comment moderating system hindering my ability to post on even random videos, I have to take more drastic measures to protest by stepping up to the plate and shouting out “Can’t we all be equal in terms of a huge variety of traits?”
We need to learn to appreciate or accept how the female body appears regardless of race and age!
Stop trying to blame it all on me! Remember what Joe King said?
Joe King: None of the stuff in the vids posted, is that. If it was, inside Edition would be the guilty party, and Youtube for not having already deleted them.
If it doesn’t violate Youtube’s TOS, it should be fine to post anywhere. If there was even a hint of impropriety to it, at the minimum the vid would have been age restricted.
If the article mentioned babies with their heads chopped off it could be a disinformation thing? Supposedly that story has been circulated with zero fact check and only one source, who has made previous online comments basically in favor of a Palestine genocide.
Either 19.1 or rc.1 fixes the bug from what I saw.
But the question then becomes when the last post was made to apocalyptic art. From my quick glance it was 4 days ago on the lemmy.ml mirror, which seems behind the most recent posts on the actual community. Lemmy.ml is on the newest version.
So my guess is that there’s some general federation issue, possibly on the feddit.de end, which is causing some things to get dropped.
If that’s not the issue, then there could be a similar bug that hasn’t yet been noticed.
We were just discussing some potentially-0.19.1-related federation problem that lemmy.today users were experiencing after the update; that’s how I ran across this thread.
The admin there, @mrmanager, restarted the instance again some hours later to attempt to resolve the problem, and it looked like federation started working at that point.
That might be worth consideration if any other instances are seeing problems with posts/comments/votes not propagating.
EDIT: Well, nuts. Now this comment doesn’t seem to be propagating either; visible from lemmy.today but not on lemmy.ml’s Web UI. Maybe if lemmy.today gets restarted again, it will.
Posting from a kbin.social account to avoid the lemmy.today issues -- on lemmy.today, the current behavior looks like the messages in the queue go out when the instance is restarted, but not until then. It's running 0.19.1.
I am not the admin there, but wanted to make that available in case other instances are affected and trying to diagnose similar behavior; federation problems themselves can cause communication problems in trying to understand the issue.
Removed Comment feddit.uk/comment/4314248 [Because it is a known antisemitic chant to murder all jews from the river Jordan to the sea.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/from-the-river-to-the-sea-where-does-the-slogan-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean-israel-palestine)
by @Syldon
reason: Antisemitism
It is used two different ways. One is the call to murder Jews, the other is a solo effort to be closer to god. I only know this because it is in the UK media of late. The sad part people are using on the pro-Palestinians marches knowing full well it will insight a violent reaction.
EDIT: others are throwing in different meanings in this post. It seems it has many variations. Not being Jewish or Muslim shows I do not have enough of a vested interest to understand all of the context surrounding this.
I assume you’re talking about tracking score on profiles ala Reddit? There’s nothing stopping anyone from making their own client or modifying lemmy-ui to do that if someone really cares.
But honestly, Lemmy has enough bots posting stuff that I wouldn’t want to bring more incentive for karma farming in.
I’ve wondered wtf is up with that instance. Someone floods certain communities - apple on hardware.watch for instance - with endless tech support questions, like pages and pages of them a day. Steamdeck on hardware.watch for instance has a dozen posts in the last 5 minutes, so it’s a ridiculous flood.
A few of the accounts seem more legitimate than others and actually have a history, but most just have 1 post. The questions aren’t badly written and I wonder where they come from - don’t sound like LLM, but I just don’t believe at all that 8,000 random people signed up at this Alien instance and want to ask one tech related question and then disappear. The content doesn’t seem harmful or scammy, though, they’re all things a normal person might post. Is the content copied from reddit? Is this someone’s idea of kickstarting these Lemmy communities? It’s all a bit odd.
Anyway it’s a limited number of communities these apparent bots post to, so I simply blocked those communities.
Yup, at least in some cases. In one of the home networking subs I’ve seen several questions that after a quick search were posted on reddit within an hour before they showed up here. It kind of pisses me off wasting time trying to help someone that doesn’t even exist on the fediverse.
Please, do not feel discouraged to participate. The idea of the bots is not to be a simple mirror, but to bootstrap real conversation. The next step of Fediverser is to allow two-way communication so that Reddit users can see the Lemmy content and migrate.
The reason that alien.top content seems so overwhelming now is more to Lemmy"s losing its activity than a real “flood” of bots. My hope is that people will join in to the point of balancing out, but if this is leading to the opposite effect I will have to turn off, and that will be a shame because there are hundreds of people already using it “as intended”
I read more about the project and it seems interesting. I suppose 2 way communication to sync accounts between reddit and lemmy would be interesting… would the reddit TOS allow that? Or would the reddit admins tolerate it for long? I suppose you’ve looked into it.
The problem is the current state is confusing… if you look at the communities posted in by the bots, it is a huge flood of posts, like sometimes 20 posts in 15 minutes. I guess that would be different if Lemmy was more active, but it isn’t yet. Also, it’s confusing - one has to visit alien.top and github to have any idea what’s going on, and if the account holders aren’t receiving the posts, it’s sort of wasting people’s effort on lemmy and not creating true engagement. Perhaps a disclaimer like ‘this post mirrored by Fediverser’ would help.
it’s sort of wasting people’s effort on lemmy and not creating true engagement
Even if we don’t have two-way communication, having the content mirrored has two purposes:
it allows lurkers to move away from reddit and browse here.
it works as a prompt for conversation between “organic” subscribers.
I will add a comment to every post though (similar to how AutoModerator does) to indicate that is a mirrored comment and with general instructions on how to interact with the bots and some links to describe the project.
Great, I think as my and other people’s experience illustrates it has been a bit confusing so far, being unexplained. The byline will help a lot, I think.
Sure, it’s useful as it is as long as people check into their Lemmy accounts. I suppose I would if I signed up and was aware there might be replies waiting for me on Lemmy in addition to Reddit.
So, a comment like this one will be sent on every mirrored post. The only issue I see with this approach is that there is no way to pin a comment to the top of the thread…
Seems like you want to crowdsource advertising for alien.top.
Yes and no. Anyone can set up a fediverser instance, and I am certainly not going to let it grow over past 10k “organic users”. My hope is to grow alien.top enough only to validate the idea of fediverser as a migration mechanism and to have more people deploying “fediversed” instances.
I hope people set up fediverse instances instead of fediverser mirror proxies, we need people to communicate with - Not a “shadowbanned” experience for new users where nobody interacts with them.
You are missing the point. There is no need to have multiple instances doing the content mirroring, and the more people migrate from Reddit, the more I will be able to disable the mirroring.
The idea is not to get fediverser instances just to mirror more Reddit content. The idea is to get more “fediverser” instances to scale the operation of a coordinated Reddit migration. alien.top itself can not be the home of a million Reddit migrants.
There is no other “place to avoid”. If what bothers you is the alien.top mirrors, then alien.top is your only source of problems. The whole reason that I am creating the content-focused instances (selfhosted, nba, hardware.watch, etc) is to compartmentalize this.
That’s cool, I think that will help explain it. I didn’t realize the accounts for people on reddit were being created on lemmy automatically though. Do the reddit users even know it’s happening?
Your instance is misreporting its name somehow and it was super annoying when I was trying to block it.
Is it alien.top or selfhosted.forum? Pick one please.
Also, do you manage any other instances so I can block those as well? Needless to say, I am slightly pissed off that I have replied to several posts before I saw they were bots. Some of those replies took some effort when I was trying to actually be helpful.
I had the same problem with lemmit.online, and with lemmit.online the owner said “yeah this is a bot, this whole instance is for reddit reposts, if you don’t like it defederate from me” - which .ca did.
I can’t stand bot instances or bots in general that are reposting from reddit, because it’s not valuable content for the fediverse - the OP doesn’t see what we’re saying and if we’re troubleshooting something that’s been crossposted it’s literally just on deaf ears.
The only bot I actually like is the ITNBot which is for ImproveTheNews - it posts neutral, pro-, and anti-stance information relevant to the article being posted, showing you all sides of the issue.
At least lemmit has a blurb that explains the content comes from reddit. Looking at alien.top itself, they do explain that it’s a page for “Fediverser” which posts content from reddit, but it’s sort of vague - makes it seem like people from reddit are signing up there to do this on purpose, but I’m not sure if that’s really how it works.
And yeah, it’s useless to respond to if the person asking isn’t going to get the reply. I’m not sure why people think auto-reddit spam would be a useful thing for lemmy.
Fediverser looks like a project that’s supposed to ease the onboarding process from reddit, looks like you can sign up with a reddit account to have access to Lemmy, but I am not entirely sure.
I don’t really mind the size of the community these days; I feel like if we start getting more and more people from reddit we’re going to get the people we wanted to avoid by leaving the place. Right now it feels like there’s not a ton of content, but there’s a decent amount of discussion, and it’s of high quality. I feel like an easier entrance to the platform is going to degrade the experience, as shitty as that sounds.
Yeah, I didn’t really understand the description. You sign up by authenticating with reddit, and then it automatically connects you with the same subs you have on reddit?
I see “Your account will be activated and you will be subscribed to Lemmy communities that have a reddit counterpart.” but also “create bot accounts to mirror the original accounts on a corresponding fediverse-enabled server”. Hmm.
Right, I mean, I don’t think we’d want Lemmy to just become a clone of reddit with all the same people. Not being ran by a lame corp would still be an advantage but for now I think discourse on Lemmy is higher quality and I hope it stays that way.
They don’t exist yet. Each bot on alien.top represents a real account on reddit. If you think that their question is legit and worthy of a response, but you don’t want to give Reddit even more data, the best thing you can do is respond on Lemmy and send a message to the origjnal asker to tell them about Lemmy and help them migrate.
Based on the original post of this thread, this comment, the modlog, and an “innocent until proved guilty” approach, I have no reason to distrust the OP.
As such, what I’m going to say might be wrong, and I’m ready to apologise if it is; but I do not think that it is wrong.
What the fuck, !worldnews mod team? If OP is being accurate, at least one of you is bloody irrational, to the point that the mod is unable to understand the difference between “here’s why this discourse is bad” and support to said bad discourse.
I get that it’s hard to recruit new mods in Lemmy, but remember - a bad mod is worse than no mod. In other words, IMO you guys should seriously consider to review each others’ mod actions and perhaps expurging a mod or two.
OP: your mileage will vary when it comes to Lemmy moderation. Some communities are moderated by sensible people; some, well… you know. Sadly there’s not much that you can do against this, except perhaps avoiding those comms. (inb4 Reddit is not an option in this regard; here, shitty mods are like stepping on shit, but there it’s like drowning in it.)
I also think that mod actions need more transparency. I’m thankful to the developers for the modlog, but I do not think that it is enough. IMO the content being removed should be still visible, when not illegal, with a big (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST/COMMENT) in it.
Also, the current modlog should at least clarify which team was responsible for a mod action - the comm mods, the comm’s instance admins, or the user’s instance admins. And there should be a way for mods to report users upstream to the instance’s admins.
I’ve made it very clear that equating zionism with jewishness will not be tolerated.
It is antisemitic to equate an antizionist slogan with antisemitism, because equating jewishness with zionist settler colonialism is literally tied with the “jews are foreign agents” nazi bullshit.
Let’s roll with your interpretation that the slogan is solely Antizionist. That would make the poster misinformed and incorrect; in this situation, the right thing to do is to talk with the poster, informing them, while checking their profile for potential Antisemitic activity. This also works great when the user is not rational (i.e. a bad faith agent) because it gives you better grounds for a ban.
Another issue that I see is ban length. A short ban is great as a warning, or to tell the user to cool their head; while permaban is great when you want to convey “we the mod team do not you here, fuck off”. A two months ban is the worst of both worlds.
I talked to them and they doubled down, I believe my judgement based on their activity was correct.
Long bans because the massive amount of calls for genocide and antisemitic bs because of the escalation of genocide in gaza mean we don’t want to have to deal with people immediately coming back. Give people time to cool off.
I honestly do not think that your judgment was accurate in this situation, and I think that you jumped the gun; the poster sounds genuinely clueless. However I’m fully aware that I don’t have full access to all the info necessary to conclude shite here.
Large bans don’t decrease your workload, they increase it.
Trolls and bad faith agents might wait for a short ban to expire, but they won’t wait for a large ban - they’ll evade it with an alt account and call it a day, and now you’re playing whack-a-mole with them. With a permaban at least you’re telling them to fuck off, even if they won’t listen.
For more sensible users, the large ban is unfair, and conveys “we still want you here… but we’re too lazy to deal with you thing right now, so shoo”. Other users are not blind, they will notice that the mods overreact to rule infractions and they will avoid reporting things, except for petty reasons. Now you’re bound to fine-comb threads manually to enforce the rules because nobody is reporting shite.
Either way, you’re doing more work than you would otherwise.
A better approach here would be to contain content prone to trigger rule-breaking comments. Megathreads work like a charm for that; they allow you to fine-comb a single thread instead of the whole community. It also helps to bring up the content diversity of the community.
Another thing. I do agree with you that automatically tying that chant to Antisemitism is itself Antisemitic; however you’re taking for granted that all users are on the same page when it comes to that, and both of us know that the media is spamming them with misinformation that conflates Israel with Jewish people. In those situations it’s better to issue an official statement, explaining what will be considered Antisemitism for the sake of rule enforcement. (It helps to inform other users too.)
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