Idgf if you call me a pedophile but they’re right with their point that the AOC is too high. Having a multiple-stage system like many advanced countries do, like Germany, where it begins with 14, loosens up with 16 and fully at 18 is good. That’s because it acknowledges the development of humans. Development is a process. Humans in reality are not a simplistic lifeform from a philosophical thought experiment, thinking that it should be illegal before one turns 18 and immediately legal a second thereafter is just nonsensical to me. It doesn’t cut off like that, there’s no such hard barrier or edge where it suddenly turns from morally bad to not morally bad.
I think that if the age of consent is gradual, the age difference allowed should too.
First scenario, two 15 year olds decide to start their sexual life together. They’re fully informed. Nobody is taking advantage. It’s very different to a second scenario where a 17 year old is dating a 36 year old.
It’s funny because the problem is usually described with terms these specific French philosophers used: power dynamics. It is too unbalanced. The adult has way more power than the teenager and that’s not healthy, it can even be dangerous.
I would argue that we should be careful with age differences until our early-mid twenties, even if the law gives us a free pass from our 18th birthday. But, anyway, yeah, in the second scenario the teenager is older than the first ones, so we’d assume that if the first ones were okay the second too, but the age difference matters IMHO.
The pit bull groups of dogs, as breeds, are not the nanny-dogs that people claim they were. They are mastiffs; they were intended to guard, and were used for hunting and war. You can train the shit out of them, and they can still revert to breed characteristics.
A study in the US concluded that greater than 60% of all fatal dog attacks in the US were from pit bulls or Rottweilers, but those two groups don’t make up nearly 60% of all dogs in the US. These simply aren’t breeds that should be left alone with children.
It’s just another form of “acceptable” racism. I was trying to express that to someone last week but they were so hung up on the fact that racism is for humans so it’s not possible to use that word about animals and different dogs were bred for different things so that makes the bigotry “okay”
One of the reasons english and probably most languages are so beautiful is because you can have an imagination about it and say things that have never been said but people will still understand what you meant. Unless they’re a cunt.
Don´t get me wrong, it’s humans in the first place who make dogs dangerous and hating any breed is stupid. People who do that have a one sided view. However, let’s be real, you have a one sided view too, just a positive one. The bad name of certain breeds has reasons, like the fact that they have been bred to fight and to max out biting power and to have an instinct to not let go when biting. I know Pitbulls are not the breed with the highest bite force but they are still in the top 10.
Today’s pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head.
Some pit bulls were selected and bred for their fighting ability.
No matter how sweet your individual Pitbull might be after a loving upbringing, many years of breeding with such goals definitely still affect the gene pool and like it or not, instinctive behavior, especially in stressful situations. Then there is the problem of bad people who get dogs as weapons and abuse them, turning them aggressive.
You have to be positive while wading through shit if you don’t want to drown. I understand everything you said, but your first sentence is all I’m trying to get across. It’s shitty fucking people, not dogs.
Edit: To your main point you were trying to get across to me; dogs can be trained to not act on their aggressive instincts like prey drive. So I still don’t see how an aggressive dog wouldn’t be it’s owners fault.
Nice that we agree that it´s generally always the owners fault if something goes wrong but it´s also a fact that different dog breeds have different aggression potentials and thereby are more or less difficult to train and control. So choosing a dog breed that is not more aggressive than necessary is also part of the owners responsibility. I for myself would never choose a breed that has been bred to fight, bite and not let go, as a family dog. Instead I would choose a Bernese for example, because they have been bred into the opposite direction, to protect and not to fight, to bark and not to bite, which results in a very calm and gentle general behaviour.
💯. If you’re a shitty trainer you should get a golden retriever instead of a Pit. But there are people who know what they’re doing and those people have the sweetest dogs you could ever meet and they happen to be pits. Therefore all the hate for one specific breed is idiotic, unfair and should be directed towards people not innocent creatures that we basically created. They are our responsibility.
Therefore all the hate for one specific breed is idiotic, unfair and should be directed towards people not innocent creatures that we basically created.
That is exactly what I wrote earlier, nice that we agree in this point.
If you’re a shitty trainer you should get a golden retriever instead of a Pit.
Hard disagree here, shitty trainers should not get any dog imo.
In an ideal world yes, they shouldn’t get any dog. But they will, so getting a Pit is significantly more dangerous than a golden because they are much easier to train.
Alright, it felt like you were trying to disagree with me even though what I said in the first place was it depends on the dogs owner. But I might have just been defensive because I’m used to my takes being challenged on Lemmy. But I see now that you were just expanding on what I already said. Cheers
It wasn’t different from what I said though, you just spelled out the reasons why what I said makes sense. We both came to the conclusion that it’s in the owner not the dog, you just showed your work
Now you’ve triggered Lemmy’s hate of pitbulls. Be prepared for “they should all be put down” and “they’re bred to be vicious, you can’t undo that” comment barrage.
French philosophy is also responsible for our country’s system of government. Montisquieu argued for separation of powers, natural (inalienable) rights and the right to revolution comes from Locke, the social contract with individual liberties comes from Rousseau. Our constitution is a bunch of French philosophy shoved together into a very (for the time) unique Enlightenment-based government.
Assholes will get big dogs, abuse ignore and isolate them, then act surprised when they act unpredictably.
Breed specific legislation isn’t the answer. The answer is for mandatory training courses predating dog ownership. All dog ownership too. Little dogs can be assholes too.
Yeah, for real. Pitbulls are the common target because they’re the “vicious dog”. It’s a self-fullfilling prophecy. Talk about how pitbulls are vicious man-killers, people who want vicious man-killers buy them and train them to be vicious man-killers, pitbulls become vicious man-killers. Meanwhile, the people who want a family dog don’t get pitbulls because, well, they’re “vicious man-killers”. The result is that statistics get skewed in favor of the “vicious man-killer” status, leading to people seeing the breed as nothing more than vicious man-killers.
That combined with the pseudoscience that was spewed by Merritt Clifton, that everyone still quotes today, and you’ve got yourself some statistical issues.
I knew someone who had a badly behaved dog, it attacked their partner so they put it down.
A few weeks later “I’m getting another one and I’m going to train it myself” Meaning they just won’t train it, lost their shit when someone called them out as a dog killer. People don’t deserve animals, people suck.
I just really don’t know how the mandatory training sessions doesn’t solve the problem for everyone.
People who are ACTUALLY dedicated to raising these dogs will still get them. Those who would end up as shitty owners won’t bother with the hassle.
Dogs get a better owner; owners get a better dog. Win-win all around.
I grew up with Rottweilers, which were the “pitbulls” of the 90s. I have had 2 Dobermans, one sleeping next to me right now, and they were the “pitbulls” of the 80s.
I fail to see how extermination is the answer when we have other methods available.
It’s weird how people insist that a certain breeed needs to be forced to keep existing. Many dog breeds no longer exist. In fact you can argue many breeds have died off and replaced with abominations.
Wiping out? Why keep breeding something humans created in the first place. It’s cruel to them and humans. Just like pugs and a bunch of other breeds that are cruel. Dogs are a human creation and humanity shoukd take responsibility and stop breeding them. Mutts are as close as natural and stable as you’re gonna get.
I agree from both an animal welfare and public safety perspective that we need far stricter laws and regulations on dog ownership in general. But also I also think that some breeds are inherently more dangerous than others. For the American Bully XL in particular, we are talking a new pitbull-adjacent breed which has been bred for both aggression, intimidation and maximum muscle mass, both to skirt past existing legislation that bans American Pit Bulls, but also because all these traits appeal to the kind of irresponsible owners that just want an attack dog that looks 'aard as fuck.
We’re also deluding ourselves when we claim that a dog bred to resemble the canine equivalent of Brock Lesnar is a nanny dog and wouldn’t harm a fly, when in actuality losing control of a 145 lb jacked beast has even led to grown adults being mauled to death.
Behavior is influenced by genetics as well as environment. Certain individual animals are more genetically predisposed towards violence than others. Certain breeds of particular species tend to have more of these individuals than others. So, it is possible to have a breed that is violent in that: if you take a random sample of that breed where the individuals are subjected to an identical rearing process more of those individuals will be more violent than average than the average breed has individuals who are more violent than average. (I realize that sentence is probably difficult to digest, but I’m not going to spend 20 more minutes working on this).
Given the data that we have on pit bulls, I think they’re a violent breed. Not all pit bulls are violent, but a pit bull is more likely to be violent than a golden retriever when the two are raised in the same environment.
Using statistics without context is not right. Especially when talking about people or other living things that have unique personalities and life experiences.
But you can train a dog to not act on their instinctual prey drive. Pitbulls are way more likely to be abused than golden retrievers so I don’t see how your point is relevant. Why are pitbulls the problem instead of shitty dog owners?
Edit: you can be damn sure if a golden retriever or any dog grew up the way violent pitbulls grow up, they would be just as violent. Golden retrievers are easier to train though, I’ll give you that.
That’s such a weird situation because I do agree with the criticism of the age of consent being different for gay acts vs straight ones, but also 15’s a bit young there and they think it’s too high. Yikes.
A lot of them were pedophiles and used their positions as published academics to argue the “philosophy” of “child love”. Pitbulls also have a bad wrap around kids.
Yeah but only in France can they get called out on TV and it’s the person calling them out that gets shunned!
Shootout to Denise Bombardier trying to get people to realise that Gabriel Matzneff is a pedo in 1990 only for Justice to wait another 30 years before launching an investigation even if he was directly referencing having sex with underage girls in his books.
Oh yes, I am aware. There was actually a pretty hard divide amongst philosophers over this.
Same thing in the US with beatnik writers, libertarians, etc. Any group that is seeking some form of personal liberty expansion will see pedophiles attach themselves.
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