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tomatenjoghurt, in Wayland/X11 problems with 4K HDMI TV

Don’t really have an Idea, but to add to your problem…

I have a 4K TV and 2 1080p Monitors and switching beneath them. Using NVIDIA graphics card with up to date drivers. All I can say, I’ve tried using KDE multiple times now, but always ended up getting weird Bugs, Micro stutter, etc on my 4K TV with KDE. So I always reverted Back to Cinnamon, GNOME, etc, because there it is working fine.

cerement, in ELI5 the whole Wayland vs X11 going on.
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

unless you are a developer, there’s not a whole lot to worry about – you’ll switch from one to the other when your distro switches and, chances are, you’ll never notice

the drama comes from the fact that the Linux community loves choices (and arguing over those choices) and, as @skullgiver points out, most of the choices have fallen by the wayside over the years

jarfil, in ELI5 the whole Wayland vs X11 going on.

X/X11 is a client-server protocol from the age of 10Mbps networks, intended for a bunch of “dumb terminals” connected to a mainframe that runs the apps, with several “optimizations” that over time have become useless cruft.

Wayland is a local machine display system, intended for computers capable of running apps on the same machine as the display (aka: about everything for the past 30 years).

Nowadays, it makes more sense to have a Wayland system (with some RDP app if needed), than an X11 system with a bunch of hacks and cruft that only makes everything slower and harder to maintain. An X11 server app acting as a “dumb terminal”, can still be run on a Wayland system to display X11 client apps if needed.

PseudoSpock,
@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

RDP is not a replacement for individual remote apps, btw, just saying. RDP is a full remote desktop, like VNC.

skullgiver, (edited ) in Evolve - A brand new GNOME Theme Manager
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • kzhe,

    GTK4 theming with GUI?

    skullgiver, (edited )
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • kzhe,

    Can confirm GNOME tweaks does not do that. A note stable solution right now (only color theming though) is Gradience.

    LEDZeppelin, in Looking to make the switch

    What are people’s experiences with dual booting windows and one of the Linux distros from the same SSD (different partitions) as opposed to having two physically separate SSDs? I unfortunately don’t have another M.2 slot on my mobo

    474D,

    It’s pretty easy, I installed Mint on my laptop and the installer took care of the partition and everything. On my desktop, I just installed an m.2 expansion slot.

    ProgrammingSocks, (edited )

    I do this, but you should pre-partition your drives. Shrinking partitions is risky and takes forever. Install Windows first, Linux second and GRUB should take over as the bootloader. This is fixable if you go the other way but you need to be considerably more familiar with bootloaders in general.

    Auli, in ELI5 the whole Wayland vs X11 going on.

    There is t really a whole thing. Wayland is where Linux is going as the people who developed X11 say it is insecure and it’s to hard to fix the issues so they went and started Wayland. They should have called it X12 or something then there would probably be less complaining.

    Corgana,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    “X12” got a laugh from me. What I don’t get is that nobody is stopping you from working on X11 if you want, so why complain?

    Secret300,

    Haha that’s my thoughts exactly. Anyone that complains should go try to maintain x11 so they can understand way development is moving to Wayland. I’m not a dev at all and I don’t understand but I love reading the blog post from devs

    vole, (edited ) in Wayland running GUI program as another user
    @vole@lemmy.world avatar

    I got interested, so I spent some time looking into what’s going on here. I’m not intimately familiar with X11 or Wayland, but I figured out some stuff.

    Why sudo ip netns exec protected sudo -u user -i doesn’t work for X11 apps

    Short answer: file permissions and abstract unix sockets (which I didn’t know were a thing before now).

    File permissions: when I start an X11 login session, the DISPLAY is :0 and /tmp/.X11-unix/ has only 1 file X0. This file has 777 access. When I start my wayland session with Xwayland, the DISPLAY is :1 and /tmp/.X11-unix/ has 2 files X0 (777) and X1 (755). I can’t figure out how to connect to display :0, so I guess I’m stuck with :1. When you change to a different (non-root) user, the user no longer has access to /tmp/.X11-unix/X1.

    Abstract unix sockets: When I start my wayland/xwayland session, it creates abstract unix sockets with ids @/tmp/.X11-unix/X0 and @/tmp/.X11-unix/X1. See ss -lnp | grep Xwayland. The network namespace also sandboxes these abstract unix sockets. Compare socat ABSTRACT-CONNECT:/tmp/.X11-unix/X1 STDIN and sudo ip netns exec private socat ABSTRACT-CONNECT:/tmp/.X11-unix/X1 STDIN.

    When you do sudo ip netns exec protected su - user, you loose access to both the filesystem unix socket /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 and the abstract unix socket @/tmp/.X11-unix/X1. You need access to one or the other for X11 applications to work.

    I tried using socat to forward X1 such that it works in the network namespace… and it kinda works. sudo ip netns exec protected socat ABSTRACT-LISTEN:/tmp/.X11-unix/X1,fork UNIX-CONNECT:/tmp/.X11-unix/X1. It appears having ABSTRACT-LISTEN before UNIX-CONNECT is important, I guess it would be worth it to properly learn socat. With this sudo ip netns exec protected su - testuser -c ‘env DISPLAY=:1 xmessage hi’ works, but sudo ip netns exec protected su - testuser -c ‘env DISPLAY=:1 QT_QPA_PLATFORM=xcb kcalc’ does not work. 😞

    Changing the file permissions on /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 to give the user access seems to work better.

    Wayland waypipe

    Waypipe works as advertised. But it’s still a little bit tricky because you need to have two separate processes for the waypipe client and server, wait for the waypipe socket to be created, adjust file permissions for the waypipe socket file, and set (and probably mkdir) XDG_RUNTIME_DIR.

    
    <span style="color:#323232;">waypipe -s /tmp/mywaypipe client &amp;
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sleep 0.1
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">chgrp shared-display /tmp/mywaypipe
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">chmod g+w /tmp/mywaypipe
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sudo ip netns exec protected su - testuser -c 'mkdir -p -m 0700 /tmp/runtime-testuser &amp;&amp; env XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/tmp/runtime-testuser waypipe -s /tmp/mywaypipe server -- env QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland kcalc'
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">kill -SIGINT %1
    </span>
    

    Combined

    into this script github.com/…/run-netns-user-wayland.bash

    shadowintheday2,

    Sir, you’re awesome! Thank you a lot for taking your time and explaining what you have found I will try these steps when I have some free time to tinker, and the info and script you have provided has cleared a lot of questions that I had

    satanmat, in ELI5 the whole Wayland vs X11 going on.

    Okay ELI5

    X11 is a win doing system. It is old and has been around for years.

    Wayland is a new one.

    They both are the core that a gui sits on.

    Wayland has some great new stuff but some people don’t like change

    answersplease77,

    which one is lighter/faster on old laptops?

    drndramrndra,

    Wayland has some great new stuff but some people don’t like change

    More like: it was released 15 years ago and it’s still broken for a lot of people, while x11 is actually working without issues.

    const_void, in Looking to make the switch

    Another day another post about switching on /c/Linux. We need a separate community for all of these blog style posts.

    tkk13909,

    Shut up and let the non-toxic members of this community take this one.

    vojel, in What are some interesting devices powered by Linux?
    @vojel@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    AKAI MPC standalones running some kind of Linux flavor niklasnisbeth.gitlab.io/mpc-internals/

    Too bad they won’t release their DAW software for Linux desktops.

    carcus,

    Ableton’s Push 3 standalone runs Linux too. Same gripe about their DAW as well.

    Secret300, in What are some interesting devices powered by Linux?

    Linux powers robotic cow-milking machine

    lwn.net/Articles/156862/

    kugmo, in ELI5 the whole Wayland vs X11 going on.
    @kugmo@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Wayland is cringe and X is based

    t. KDE Wayland daily driver

    kugmo, in Evolve - A brand new GNOME Theme Manager
    @kugmo@sh.itjust.works avatar

    lol

    kzhe,

    Did you read your own letter? It’s not relevant here.

    TheGrandNagus, (edited )

    If you like to tinker with your own system, that’s fine with us. However, if you change things like stylesheets and icons, you should be aware that you’re in unsupported territory. Any issues you encounter should be reported to the theme developer, not the app developer.

    I don’t know whether you’re shitting on theme developers or GTK app developers with your comment, but they explicitly state that they think theming is fine, they’re just tired of people reporting theme problems as app problems. It’s a completely reasonable take.

    If I were an app developer I wouldn’t want to open a bug report, then spend hours and hours investigating a reported issue, only to find out that my app was never the problem in the first place.

    bitwolf, (edited )

    It’s more targeted towards the DE developers.

    Some use gnome but with their own theme and it can make normal apps look broken.

    You can see this if you use an Elementary OS application while still using the default gnome theme as an example.

    Or if you use Pop! Shell, and try to use a normal libadwaita app. (Although Pop Shell has gotten better about how they implement their theme)

    vojel, in ELI5 the whole Wayland vs X11 going on.
    @vojel@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    I don’t see a real „versus“ here. Wayland will definitely become the standard display server for Linux distributions. This is not sysV init vs systemd or something else. As pointed out by lots of ppl here X11 is old and insecure because it is from another time and does not fit into modern systems and requirements, thus it is way easier to start new and fresh instead of working around for any feature needed and maintain such a old code base. The only downside for me personally is that Wayland does not support always on top windows automatically. So either right click the window or use plugins for videos from Firefox for example. AFAIK this is also for security reasons. I run Wayland on my main machine for years now, no problems at all. If I got the choice I would always go for Wayland. Even Cinnamon has experimental Wayland support now and hopefully will make the switch soon.

    Murdoc, in ELI5 the whole Wayland vs X11 going on.

    I feel like you guys aren’t really “explaining like I’m 5”. Let me show you:
    Sometimes, when a mommyboard and a daddy graphics card fall in love, the daddy graphics card puts his connector pins inside the mommyboard’s expansion slot. Then when they both get turned on, millions of tiny electrons surge out of his connector pins and into her expansion slot, where they travel up through mommyboard’s data bus, and into one of her memory cards. Meanwhile, there are thousands of image files inside mommy’s storage drives waiting to come to life, and every once in a while one of them ventures out of the storage drive and into her memory card. And if the electrons and the image file happen to meet at the same time, then 9 milliseconds later, a picture of a baby appears on the monitor!

    PseudoSpock,
    @PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    It’s more incestuous than that… It’s a Motherboard with a Daughterboard. 😲

    Patch,

    What are you doing, step-board?

    PseudoSpock,
    @PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Wearing a “hat”!

    neidu2,

    And wayland represents the overly friendly postman that left the house with a satisfied smirk just as the daddy board came home from his hard workday as an xorg liason.

    Hadriscus,

    please tag this NSFW

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