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PrivateNoob, in these are the same gnome devs who complain about getting harassed

Unnecessary to fight over this. Use which DE you like the better.

EccTM, in Wayland is a cancer to the Linux desktop.

Nobody is forcing you to use Wayland. Just take up the mantle of maintaining X11 yourself, because nobody is forced to keep that alive either.

logifad501,

But wayland people will call me a bigot for using X11

intelisense,

Trust me, nobody gives a flying fuck what you use.

logifad501,

Then why are dozens of people blindly coaxing people to use wayland for no reason? None of it feels remotely organic.

TheAnnoyingFruit, in Comparison between NixOS vs blendOS vs Vanilla OS: what to pick and why?

I would check out something like universal-blue.org. It is fedora silverblue but with fixes that make it more usable (like codecs by default). It also ships distrobox right out of the gate so you can use that for apps that aren’t in the fedora repos, copr , or flatpak. You also don’t have to layer packages if you install via distrobox so I think it ends up being pretty handy for stuff that you want that isn’t available as a flatpak. Finally there are many different images for all different desktop environments so you can switch between them just by using rpm-ostree rebase and the link to the different image.

callyral, (edited ) in Wayland is a cancer to the Linux desktop.
@callyral@pawb.social avatar

wayland solved a vsync issue i had with firefox

  • obs works with full screen capture on wlroots and also with per-window capture on kde and gnome
  • redshift is for xorg. use gammastep on wayland instead
logifad501,

Good for you. Wayland solved zero issues and created hundreds of new ones for me and plenty of people.

Atemu, (edited ) in One single partition for Linux versus using a partition table?
@Atemu@lemmy.ml avatar

What you’re doing is perfectly fine.

It is however more of a mitigation for bad distro installers than general good practice. If the distro installers preserved /home, you could keep it all in one partition. Because such “bad” distro installers still exist, it is good practice if you know that you might install such a distro.

If you were installing “manually” and had full control over this, I’d advocate for a single partition because it simplifies storage. Especially with the likes of btrfs you can have multiple storage locations inside one partition with decent separation between them.

Flaky, in How do y'all deal with programs not supported on Linux?
@Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Depends. Steam and Proton handles most games and if not, I’ll check Lutris. FWIW, some games like Doom and RollerCoaster Tycoon (the Sawyer, 2D era) have open-source remakes that work on modern machines.

For regular software, I will try it in WINE and if it provides a good enough experience for daily use, I’ll keep it there. If it doesn’t, for any reason, I’ll stick it in a Windows VM. For instance, Exact Audio Copy will work fine in WINE provided you get .NET 3.5 installed for the MusicBrainz metadata plugin, but MusicBee has severe enough problems (font redirection problems, lag when scrolling, can’t drag tabs) for me that I just use it in a virtual machine or another PC. (I actually have another rig I’m considering using as a “jukebox” machine, since I have macOS on it and use it for Apple Music, so I’m compartmentalising my music to one machine if that makes sense)

mojo, in Wayland is a cancer to the Linux desktop.

Schizo post

logifad501,

Wayland shills call everyone names but the moment anyone criticises it they call everyone they don’t like a bigot, get them cancelled and stop any discussion about the negatives of wayland. Why are they so insistent on forcing everyone to adopt an unfinished product? It’s almost like a big corporation with a hat wants to sabotage the linux desktop.

avidamoeba, in Firefox (finally) enables Wayland by default on their builds
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Requires login. Any word on when it’s making in stable?

joojmachine,

Updated the link, hopefully it works now. Weirdly enough I was sure the original link I shared didn’t require it

dark_stang, in cheapest new computer running linux <$500
@dark_stang@beehaw.org avatar

Desktop or laptop? Do you need peripherals included? Honestly for under $500 I’d highly suggest looking at refurbished machines. You’ll be able to pick up an off-lease Dell or Lenovo or HP system for < $300.

director,
@director@some.institute avatar

Tons of good options in the used enterprise market. 3-5 years old, usually some paths for basic upgrades, as well as a flood of part availability from all the other similar systems being off boarded that were broken and not resellable. Laptops can be a bit roughed up, but full sized and sff desktops are usually in great condition.

Hairyblue, in Firefox (finally) enables Wayland by default on their builds
@Hairyblue@kbin.social avatar

I want everyone to move over to Wayland too.

I use my Linux PC for gaming. Last time I tried Steam/Nvidia with Wayland I could only get one game to launch. So hopefully those 2 will work on making Wayland happen for us.

thequickben,

I upgraded my graphics card to an AMD one because of this. It’s been two weeks for me using Linux for gaming and I love it.

Hairyblue, (edited )
@Hairyblue@kbin.social avatar

I have always liked Nvidia for years. When I moved to Linux, the Nvidia drivers have been working great on X11. I am currently playing Baldur's Gate 3 and I have DLSS 2 turned on and get frame rates at 100. Looks great and awesome game. But I know Wayland is the future and want Nvidia to work well with it and Steam. I will get an AMD if I have to but my card is still great and I am not looking for a new one yet.

Flaky,
@Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

NVIDIA has been notoriously problematic with Wayland from what I heard. When I bought my current rig I made sure AMD was powering the graphics.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

When I first attempted to give Wayland a try, it just wouldn’t work. Did some troubleshooting but stuck with X11 for the time being.

About a month ago I gave logging into a Wayland session a try on a whim, and it just worked. Everything was fine, only difference was a change is mouse sensitivity.

joyjoy, (edited )

When you have a HiDPI screen, wayland is a must. X11 just doesn’t have good support for it in my experience.

aard,
@aard@kyu.de avatar

There’s a lot of other stuff where Wayland improves the experience. Pretty much everything hotplug works to some extend on X, but it’s all stuff that got bolted on later. Hotplugging an input device with a custom keymap? You probably can get it working somewhat reliably by having udev triggers call your xmodmap scripts - or just use a Wayland compositor handling that.

Similar with xrandr - works a lot of the time nowadays, but still a compositor just dealing with that provides a nicer experience.

Plus it stops clients from doing stupid things - changing resolutions, moving windows around or messing up what is focused is also a thing of the past.

WeLoveCastingSpellz, (edited )

I have had the same problem for a long time but I tried it again last friday, on an nvidia card still, games worked after an update or two

Hairyblue,
@Hairyblue@kbin.social avatar

I was waiting for Nvidia drivers 545 to try again, but I checked last weekend and Ubuntu still had 535 drivers. I hear Nvidia did a lot of fixes for wayland on the new drivers.

WeLoveCastingSpellz,

I am on nobara for all that matters

logifad501, (edited ) in Firefox (finally) enables Wayland by default on their builds
lauha,

Some of those arguments are legit but like half is complaining about wayland being fundamentally different to xorg and obviously you cannot use straight xorg apps on it.

“Linux is inferior because it breaks all my powershell scripts and all my windows only apps. Don’t use linux.”

russjr08,
@russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.net avatar

I mean, to play devil’s advocate here - if functionality that you need is all of a sudden swept out from under you then it doesn’t matter from an end user perspective if it’s not the intended design for Wayland - to the user, Wayland is broken in that regard.

A better equivalent would be if an application you used every day for the last 10 years all of a sudden has an update that kills features you used because that’s no longer part of the dev(s) vision. Or headphone jacks on phones. Or whatever that weird thing with Teslas where they disabled a sensor in an OTA update and replaced it with some other solution(?).

Or to modify the example you put, if Windows killed the cmd shell and only left powershell in a Windows Update.

I have an application that I need to use at work which will never fit Wayland’s design, short of me either finding a new job, keeping a Windows install around, or using a really old version of Linux around in a VM when X11 has completely disappeared from all distros (which won’t really work) - there will be nothing that I can do about it on the Wayland side because it’s highly unlikely the devs will update it to be compatible (since it’s a shock that they actually even had Linux support in the first place).

As it is, I currently just pop into an X11 session whenever I’m on working hours, it will suck that I can’t do that with Fedora come next release when they completely drop X from the repos.

30p87, (edited )

This is literally comedy lmao.

Most points are just complaining that tools specifically designed for X don’t work on Wayland. That’s like hanging onto your childhood pants and complaining they don’t fit anymore.

lemmyvore,

But many of those are actively used by people. I use screen recording, screen sharing, global menus, key automation and window automation every day. Even if I wanted to use Wayland I couldn’t. What exactly is it that you want me to do?

sanpo,

And one of the first points is how Wayland crash will bring down all running applications - yep, just like on X11! But it’s somehow Wayland’s fault.

Besides the fact that on Wayland running apps can survive a compositor crash (I think new KDE will have that feature), which I doubt can be done on X11.

30p87,

And I had exactly zero crashes of Wayland in my life, on any device.

SomethingBurger,

This is not what they are saying.

A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications

This does not happen on Xorg. If the WM crashes, it’s possible to kill it and restart it without exiting running applications.

Hexagon,

A WM crash does not bring down all the other applications… but an X11 server crash definitely does!

In wayland they are the same program (a.k.a. the compositor). User applications can be designed to survive a compositor crash, though many are not able yet

lemmyvore, (edited )

An X session depends on the main user process. Unless a DE picks the compositor as the main process then no, a compositor crash won’t affect the session. But they don’t do that, for obvious reasons, since the compositor is just a feature among others. They typically have a special program that takes that role, for example xfce4-session.

And one of the first points is how Wayland crash will bring down all running applications - yep, just like on X11! But it’s somehow Wayland’s fault.

They said that a Wayland window manager will bring down all apps, not a Wayland crash. Which, again, is not like it works on X, as I explained above. The window manager on X, like the compositor, is just another feature. If it crashes it just gets replaced and the session continues.

Krause,
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Wayland does not work properly on NVidia hardware

That’s a feature, stop buying hardware from vendors that treat GNU/Linux and *BSD users as second-class citizens and locks them into proprietary drivers.

Wayland is biased toward Linux and breaks BSD

Seems to work just fine on FreeBSD.

Wayland breaks games

Games are developed for X11. And if you run a game on Wayland, performance is subpar due to things like forced vsync. Only recently, some Wayland implementations (like KDE KWin) let you disable that.

Gaming performance is actually better on Wayland.

lemmyvore,

That’s a feature, stop buying hardware from vendors that treat GNU/Linux and *BSD users as second-class citizens and locks them into proprietary drivers.

Nowadays I buy a new graphics card maybe twice a decade. I’m not changing the card for software.

Also, we’re all using proprietary hardware. Be serious. If you tried to never use anything proprietary you’d never use anything. You’re using like a dozen of them right now.

Krause,
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Also, we’re all using proprietary hardware

Sure, I have proprietary bits on my kernel and my AMD GPU needs proprietary firmware loaded to work, but that’s a hell lot different than the situation NVIDIA shoves users into. It’s one thing to have small proprietary components that don’t bother me or break my workflow, it’s another to have black box drivers that can bork my setup if I dare to update my packages.

snaggen,
@snaggen@programming.dev avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • flux,

    I suppose it explains why people have a bad attitude about Wayland when tools providing useful functionality are described as trojans.

    X11 can (…mostly…) have great security by just providing a suitable X Security module to it. It just seems it wasn’t considered that big of an issue that anyone bothered. Nokia Maemo/Meego used to rock such a module.

    snaggen,
    @snaggen@programming.dev avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • flux,

    By that logic, is the compositor working any different than a trojan? Is there really a difference?

    The Wayland compositor is always capturing all your keyboard and mouse as well. No permissions asked. Pretty sus.

    popekingjoe, in Firefox (finally) enables Wayland by default on their builds
    @popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

    Huzzah!

    StellarTabi, in cheapest new computer running linux &lt;$500

    modern chromebooks are secretly linux under the hood and can run android/linux apps. you could also try remoting into a server for development, like over ssh/vim or via code-server.

    raven, (edited )

    And if you open it up and unplug the battery, then boot off the charger that disables the write protect and you can install actual linux, though a lot of chromebooks have unique hardware that might not be supported, particularly audio IME.

    I used to have a dell chromebook 11, and with bitmap fonts it was actually a pretty slick little computer for <$100.

    retrieval4558, (edited )

    HWAT??

    I’ve got an old one that I am trying that on first thing tomorrow. I assume you can plug the battery back in afterwards?

    raven, (edited )

    Depending on how old it might be another method. Some have a switch somewhere, or a specific screw. Check out mrchromebox’s page.

    And yeah you just boot it with the battery disconnected once and it disables the write protect!

    possiblylinux127,

    It depends on the model

    retrieval4558,

    Yeah, did some research and it ended up being a screw that needed removed. Regardless, I didn’t know this was possible at all so I’m quite happy

    oshitwaddup, in cheapest new computer running linux &lt;$500
    @oshitwaddup@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz avatar

    Look around on offerup/facebook marketplace/craigslist. There are usually some pretty good deals

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

    Old Thinkpads are your best bet, especially for linux support. I scored a new T14s gen 3 for $300 earlier this year, and like a year earlier got a T14 gen 1 for $200.

    The Intel Thinkpads should have great support and upgradeable ram, the newer AMD ones sadly have soldered ram.

    rotopenguin, in cheapest new computer running linux &lt;$500
    @rotopenguin@infosec.pub avatar

    You can get an N100 mini system for about $150. Pay a little more to get (the intel enforced maximum) 16GB mem. I have a Beelink Mini S and it’s perfectly fine.

    jollyrogue,

    How is the firmware support? Beelink isn’t mentioned on LVFS.

    TCB13,
    @TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

    Forget about those, for 100$ you can get a second hand HP Mini that has a full i5 8th gen CPU and 16GB of RAM. Way better in all possible ways. Those systems also run very well with Linux.

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