India, Greenland, Greece and Turkey are the four countries with the fastest growth of Linux users. I’ve checked their neighbouring countries, and it looks like they are still in the 1-2% range.
India is the eye opener … an enormous market of 1.5 billion people and the majority of them are too poor to pay for any specialty OS … it’s going to turn into a futuristic dystopia down there … people living in slums but scrounging up old neglected and forgotten hardware to bring them back online with Open Source Software.
Edit: I don’t normally make big corrections or changes to my comments but after rereading this, I think I went a bit too far with my assumptions about another country and culture … thanks @embed_me for putting it to my attention
Indian here. The reason isn’t Windows’ price tag - pirated Windows is very cheap and common - but a government push to make us less dependent on foreign (i.e. US / Chinese) companies. Schools, government offices, hospitals etc. have shifted to, or are shifting to, Linux (mostly Ubuntu and Mint). This shift started over a decade ago, but the US sanctions on Russia have spooked the government into speeding things up now.
Ok as an Indian allow me to interject. The reason people use linux is not because of poverty. Even the cheapest laptops come preloaded with activated windows.
We get introduced to Linux based OSs in schools. That plus people are heavily pushed into engineering and lately computer science and software engineering.
Honestly I’m a little surprised it’s so low relative to linux. It definitely has a strong presence. I’m thinking it won’t be as popular because of the lower cost to value ratio
I was probably too hasty in my assumptions … simplistic, stereotypical maybe even a bit racist
I just thought it made economic sense … why build an entire economy or business using foreign owned software and basing it all on a foreign company, especially one with unknown loopholes that would put the company’s and country at risk by a foreign power.
Thanks for the correction and insight … I’ll be more careful about my assumptions in the future.
Also another thing you are wrong about: You may be surprised to know that the second hand market for computer electronics is non-existent. As far as I know, there are only a handful of cities in the whole country where there is a second hand local market. Cheap electronics don’t last that much and in laptops there are only so many components you can buy separately and install. (Overwhelming majority of the computers are laptops, not the traditional CPU towers)
Also another thing I failed to mention is, the government tried to make a distro for govt use at one point but idk if anything came out of that. But I want to say there’s definitely a growing presence of linux here
It was not so common to use linux in schools in other states and in kerala, all government schools use a Kite Ubuntu which is fork of lts ubuntu. Its like the law to use free software for education in kerala. Me also got introduced to linux from school so i expected you are from kerala too. And Free software is most popular in kerala afaik.
The intensity of free software user group in kerala shows it too fsug.in
I use Linux (Arch actually) as my daily driver - I’m the MD of a small IT business in the UK. I have at least one employee who is asking me to create a Linux standard deployment to replace Windows because they don’t like it anymore - W11 is quite divisive.
For a corp laptop/desktop you might need Exchange email - so that might be Evolution with EWS. You’ll want “drive letters” - Samba, Winbind and perhaps autofs. You’ll need an office suite - Libre Office works fine. There’s this too: cid-doc.github.io for more MS integration - if that’s your bag.
I often see people getting whizzed up about whether LO can compete with MSO. I wrote a finite (yes, finite) capacity scheduler for a factory in MS Excel, back in 1995/6 - it involved a lot of VBA and a mass of checksums etc. I used to teach word processing and DTP (Quark, Word, Ventura and others). LO cuts it. It gets on my nerves when I’m told that LO isn’t capable by someone who is incapable of fixing a widow or orphan or for whom leading and kerning are incomprehensible.
This may be a controversial opinion but I would rather use the web version of Outlook than Evolution. I have been trying to use Evolution since the Ximian days but I was never really happy with it. I gave up on it in favour of web Outlook a couple of years ago.
I remember back in 2017, I didn’t really need any big desktop apps anymore. All I used was Salesforce, Netsuite, O365, Postman… I asked my company to just give me a Chromebook. Now I hate Chromebooks and I could very much do my job on a Linux distro mainly using web apps if needed.
My IT dept would never allow it because they can’t install security software on it. Obviously I’d be pretty safe from malware, but they’d have to trust that I set up firewalls and password protection because they couldn’t enforce a group policy, and their data loss prevention tools wouldn’t work.
Not as “safe” as you think in that regard (I use arch btw), the reason they don’t want it is because you lose control as the administrator. Once everyone is running some flavour of Linux and people report problems, guess who’s gotta look at it? The IT department. It’s a management nightmare compared to windows.
I solved that by social engineering our IT to join my “Windows” computer into the domain, which was actually just a Windows VM. They didn’t notice, and I’m free to Linux away.
For me the turning point was when a failed Windows forced upgrade ended up deleting me important files. I had backups, but I lost days of work because Microsoft felt so insecure in the face of piracy that they had to upgrade my computer despite me constantly telling them not to do so.
That was around 10 years ago. I went through various KDE distros; in the end I settled for Kubuntu.
The recent developments in KDE plasma are excellent. I haven’t had to open a command prompt in years. I hadn’t had a tech problem until this year when my tmp folder got full.
I’m from the other side, though. I’m a developer and systems administrator on Kubuntu and I live by the command line. I use yakuake, which is totally awesome, and have about 50 or so shells open pretty much permanently, all nicely tucked away in tabs and sub sections in a programmable drop down that automatically starts all those command line shells when my computer boots. It’s pure awesomeness, Linus os pure awesomeness!
Damn, you know, I love automation and customization, and your description sounds awesome. I certainly will jump the gap at some point, but the thought of having to relearn an entire OS and suite of tools, and inevitably make mistakes that will cost me time and -probably- multiple reinstalls discourages me quite a bit. I remember using Fedora 20-something ten years ago on my laptop and the amount of things for which I needed a terminal was overwhelming. I also remember trying to learn file management by copying/backing up files from the terminal, and ending up batch-deleting entire folders worth of pictures. I never had a reliable “readme” for learning all this, that didn’t already assume I knew all the lingo and was proficient in some programming language.
I started using powershell more because it comes with a lot of bash aliases out of the box. Besides a brief period of using ubuntu in like 2006 because my windows install got corrupted, its my first foray into linux. Ive been daily driving debian 12 and i love it. I feel like getting used to the lingo helped ease the transition.
But if you actually use powershell for more than simple tasks and take advantage of its object oriented nature, it might make the switch harder. If you plan to use the command line as little as possible i think the switch is trivial. Your biggest worry is going to be analysis paralysis with all the options, but i just installed debian with the defaults and trying out different desktop environments is really easy and i havent yet had a problem that wasnt simple to solve with a google search.
I suspect that it’s not Linux that is on the rise, but overall PC market that is shrinking. It’s been a trend for quite a while for non-linux people to dump the PC entirely in favor of using just phone.
I wonder at the various nuances of that. My wife and I have 4 phones and 3 tablets between us between home and work. It would seem any multi-person household would be likely to have more mobile devices than PCs due to the variety of the former. So that chart seems to be that there are more mobile devices per person, but perhaps no reduction in PCs.
In fact, PC sales rocketed up in Q3’20 for very obvious reasons, and have largely not come back down to pre-COVID levels.
It’s been a trend for quite a while for non-linux people to dump the PC entirely in favor of using just phone.
Can’t do that if you play games.
Also that’s half of the reason Windows hasn’t lost the war on home desktop PCs yet. Another half is office applications.
Actually, these are thirds.
Another reason making me say so is that no major user-friendly distribution wants to be just that, they all have a particular madness with no good reason for it.
So I don’t know what to recommend, there should be something off the top of my head, but that’d be “just install Debian, it’s fine”.
So, any single reason of these going away would accelerate Linux adoption notably. Any two would make it a trend visible to housewives. And all three would resemble the flight of ICQ users to Skype.
What’s Ubuntu’s “particular madness”? They used to be a little FOSS-only, but they’ve chilled out on that.
I agree on the other points, though, with one caveat on both.
No matter how many games run on linux, it won’t be enough because there aren’t ever going to be linux exclusives. Without linux exclusives, there will always be more games that run in Windows than Linux, even if the majority of them run in linux AND run better than in Windows.
Office sounds like a big deal, but Apple managed to prove you don’t need it. The real problem Linux has with office is that it has no well-marketed office suite. There’s nothing wrong with Libre- or Open- except the complete lack of advertising and passive training to its nuances that we get from MS and Apple office products.
It’s not that linux can’t win on games or office. It’s that the game is rigged against it on both. It took me a few years back in the early 00’s, but I quickly realized that there will never be a “year of the linux desktop” regardless of how good Linux gets at games, office, user-friendliness, or anything.
And that’s ok because MY life is easier when I use linux.
I remember that it does too much, but without specifics. It’s been 4+ years since I touched Ubuntu.
They used to be a little FOSS-only
I vaguely remember that “Amazon lens” for Unity, I don’t think they ever were that much FOSS-only.
No matter how many games run on linux, it won’t be enough because there aren’t ever going to be linux exclusives.
It’s fine. That’d still be goal fulfilled.
Office sounds like a big deal, but Apple managed to prove you don’t need it.
How so?
There’s nothing wrong with Libre- or Open- except the complete lack of advertising and passive training to its nuances that we get from MS and Apple office products.
I recently had a problem with LO, while editing a document with lots of math formulae - from time to time while adding a formula about half of others (in the whole document) would just become empty.
Not sure something like that would happen under Apple suite’s analog of Word, whatever it’s called.
It’s not that linux can’t win on games or office. It’s that the game is rigged against it on both.
With that I agree, somewhere in 2012 I somehow realized that it’s already much better than the alternatives, and yes, for a housewife’s desktop just as well, if one’s honest and thinks of their own needs.
And if one’s comparing it to advertising of the competing commercial products, then it’s hopeless.
I recently been arguing with some dude about some PUBG mechanics. It took me quite some time to realize that he was playing PUBG mobile, never played the PC version or even knew that it even existed for that matter. For him, PUBG simply meant PUBG mobile. For those people, they don’t even consider using PC for gaming. They might consider console, but PC to them is just more or less a typewriter for school/office tasks.
I’ve been thinking for some time what to answer and concluded that the normie world is a world of pain.
We - as in FOSS OS users and FOSS paradigm users - desperately need open hardware, so that the rest of the industry could eat all the rubber dicks they want without affecting us significantly.
And I mean not only hardware design, but fabs.
It may seem an impossible future, with semiconductor deficit etc, and Taiwan being that important.
And with starting a fab being so expensive.
Still, they only way a conclusive FOSS victory resulting in even balance happens is if there is a public fab producing general-purpose hardware with public design.
Because right now lots of resources are being wasted on catching up in inherently disadvantageous areas, like supporting proprietary hardware which is always harder for FOSS developers than for MS or Apple.
Without full-chain FOSS hardware production it’ll always be bare survival.
And yet here I am looking to expanding my devices with a replacement server (linux) and a NUC (linux).
Finally ditched Windows on the desktop forever, about 7 months ago.
I agree with you on mobile. I my country many ppl ditched laptops and desktops for their phones.
Although I have a hard time understanding how they can actually get some work done on the phone, if they do any work from home that requires a computer. Well those ppl probably have an old laptop laying around.
I remember looking at pc sales data, and they have been shrinking in the last decade, with the curve flattening until the pandemic, when sales grew substantially, almost to the 2000s level. Now it’s shrinking back slowly. I’m not sure if people are abandoning desktops in favor of phones as much as we think. desktops are durable and we tend to have only one, while mobile devices are gaining different forms, and people are getting more of them. Perhaps the desktop market has not much more room to grow while mobile devices are still booming.
But that’s just one possible explanation, I might be wrong. I was going to post the data, but statista requires login to see it.
I don’t know if we know it’s shrinking back for sure. With the exception of Q1’23, there seems to be a balance around 19M sales per quarter. There’s a way to read it as shrinking, but there’s also a way to read it as stabilizing. There’s just not enough samples to be certain.
What we have to remember is that we’re finally reaching a turning point in GPU pricing. Laptops that were in the $2000+ range a year or two ago are closer to the $1000 commodity price. There had been a “value stall” that just broke, where a new computer used to not be a significant upgrade on an old one, and so people might hold onto their current computers a year or two longer.
I mean, I sure I pulled a few discounts out of my ass, but I just landed an i9 laptop with a 4090 for just over $2k as a replacement to a computer that died. Two years ago almost to the day I bought a middle-of-the-road gaming machine with a 3070 in it for about the same price.
On my laptop, I’ve switched to Linux since, despite being built in 2017, doesn’t meet Win 11’s min requirements. This is horseshit, I don’t care how MS explains it or justifies it, there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m sure during development, they realized a 20 year old computer could run Win 11 and decided to make up requirements to force people into buying new PCs.
Anyway, I’m using KDE Neon and I’m loving its ease of use and simplicity. I have barely needed to dive into the terminal to fix anything and KDE Plasma feels very polished and user friendly. To me, it feels like the new “normie-friendly” Linux. And without the horseshit telemetry and Microsoft spying, it’s like a brand new PC.
I’m a sysadmin and we are in the very early stages of rolling out windows 11 to our users. Windows is windows, but I just can’t help but have observations that windows 11 looks like KDE did maybe 10 years ago? It’s like a badly themed linux distro from 2015…
It is arbitrary: my HP Zbook initially offered W11 upgrade, but we use corporate stuff and our software wasn’t certified on W11 yet so I held off. Months later we get a notice that the Zbook no longer meets requirements for W11 LOL
I wonder if that dip in Windows in April, going down to like 62%, and the correlated boost for “Uknown” operating systems to 13% might somehow simply be Windows not being recognized properly and categorized as unknown?
It seems a bit far-fetched to me that a bunch of Windows users would for 1 month suddenly all decide to use ReactOS, FreeDOS, BSD, Solaris, Illumos, Haiku, Redox, and Plan 9.
It was a specific choice. My PC is a little long in the tooth, sucks power, and is overly loud for where it was situated.
The pi is doing fine for my relatively non-demanding usage. If I do set up the old PC again, I’ll probably wind up installing Mint or something, rather than buy upgrades and crap to support Windows 11.
Well, i got some feedback, most creative people don’t find gimp good, they won’t switch.
Well dunno if it’s because gimp lacks good tool that ease up their workflow or because we teached them adobe suite.
During my art course it was : adobe suite and autocad with 3d max.
But i knew blender, gimp and scribus way before entering art school because i disagree with adobe’s licensing system and found it very expensive.
Imho, the current best creative software on linux is Blender. There is also Darktable and Rawtepee for light, contrast.
For inkscape, krita, i can’t compare, i never used adobe illustrator, nor corel drawer.
Scribus is good, almost perfect but it lacks a very important feature that i can’t replicate. Adobe Indesign is far more easier because of the guideline that tell ya this item is correctly aligned and has the same size.
Kdenlive, well featured but i find adding video effect easier on adobe premiere pro. And kdenlive had a lot stability issue, i lost my work several time and that’s how i learned to setup automated save.
Autocad easily outmatched freecad, there were a huge difference in functionnalities. I don’t know if it has changed since 10 years. It probably improved a lot.
I know this is probably tongue-in-cheek, but if you wanted the serious answer:
GIMP:
Non-destructive Editing (it’s coming real soon!)
Vector shapes, not bitmap
Smart objects
Full CMYK support
Full PSD support (for collaboration purposes), hahaha
KILL ALL FLOATING SELECTIONS
Kdenlive:
Well, I actually do use Kdenlive. I’m fine with Lightworks too, and Resolve on macOS. But it’s lacking finer color grading controls, the interface is inefficient (being fixed in a future release), hardware-based decoding/encoding needs to either exist or be improved.
And the other big reason is collaboration with other Adobe users.
Personally I don’t want people to switch to linux without caring about software freedom. I mean it might be nice to run adobe software in linux but I will not use it, and such softwares have same problems like “windows” which we are switching away from. They are proprietary programs from corporations which doesn’t even satisfy freedom 0.
Well yes. I agree reccomending linux to others. But if the only reason someone isn’t switching linux is because some proprietary app doesnt support it, i don’t see they will care about free software later on. Also not everyone are like you and me, and may use linux without caring about software freedom at all.(I have a friend who uses google chrome AND edge)
I guess part of software freedom, for me, is that I don’t care what other people choose to do, I just use and recommend Linux and other open source software wherever I can.
Absolutely wild that you’d purity test people and recommend against them using Linux just because they wouldn’t be using it for the reason you want them to…
I am not against people using linux for some other reason but I don’t want to promote linux just for people to use proprietary software. They could, but i am not interested in them and does feel useless if its not for software freedom. (That doesnt mean i am against people using them)
Btw if you dont know, software freedom is not about using whatever software you need. Its about a software that gives you the four essential freedoms
I mean If you have all thoose proprietary apps availiable in linux, you probably wouldnt be introduced to foss apps. You probably keep on using the proprietary software you used in windows
I know it’s a joke, but if linux keeps growing steadly, without saturating, it can reach a point in which it breaks the “I don’t use it because no one else does/ I don’t use it because my software isn’t supported” barrier and start to grow exponentially.
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