Way back in the olde tymes, I was having trouble with the NIC driver in my Linux install. I posted a question about it on USENET, and got a reply from the guy who wrote the drivers. He asked for some info about the card, then updated the driver to support it.
There used to be a lot of cards based on same or similar chips, but with small differences. That made little changes to drivers common. It’s a bit like LCD modules or audio chipset quirks. One driver with tons of little differences depending on what each manufacturer decided to do differently.
Yeah, I know, that’s why the kernel with the drivers is not more than 150MB. Otherwise, you’d have the Windows situation where driverpacks compressed with 7z (LZMA2, solid archive, 273 word dictionary size and 2GB decompression memory, which requires about 128GB of RAM to compress) take about 30GB.
You have to pack the driver from each manufacturer because of signatures, even though they might even be the same with other drivers in the pack… but, REV differs and oh well, the driver installer doesn’t recognize that driver as a valid one for that device.
Of course, the kernel drivers are now commonly signed. The real problem is catering to manufacturers demanding to have their own bespoke driver pack, often including some stupid branded management application, when it’s just the same as the other dozen manufacturers packaging of the same product. Then you end up with bloated “driver packs” and a system tray of a half dozen vendors screaming for you to pay attention to them and know that they are somehow contributing to your experience.
In Linux, you have a kernel driver and a myriad of vendor’s pci ids mixed together and the vendors just have to deal with it. As a side effect, a USB to serial dongle is about 99% likely to work in Linux, and in my experience 90% unlikely to work in Windows (can’t find the driver for it, or in one very prominent case Microsoft bans drivers of counterfeit chips that function fine, but violate IP rights). Punishing the counterfeiters may have been understandable, but ultimately the unwitting customers paid rather than the counterfeiters (they still sold their devices, but the users that were oblivious suffered).
The real problem is catering to manufacturers demanding to have their own bespoke driver pack, often including some stupid branded management application, when it’s just the same as the other dozen manufacturers packaging of the same product. Then you end up with bloated “driver packs” and a system tray of a half dozen vendors screaming for you to pay attention to them and know that they are somehow contributing to your experience.
This is exactly why I use driverpacks in Windows (3rd party, like SDI). If the drivers are not in the pack, I download them from the manufacturer and if they’re packed with an app, I just extract the whole thing and point Windows (through manual driver update) to search for the drivers in that location. It will install only what it needs to work, nothing else.
they still sold their devices, but the users that were oblivious suffered
Or they did know, but the copy was a lot cheaper than the real thing. Hell, I’ve done it. If it does the same thing, why buy the more expensive thingie. I get IP rights and all that, but seriously, in the end, you just have to deal with these things. Unless you’re Intel, you should expect your device/chip to end up being copied. China doesn’t enforce western world IP laws, so it’s a “free for all” kind of a thing there. If you plan on doing this (making your own device/chip), your device/chip better be niche enough so it’s not viable to actually copy the design. Otherwise, copies will pop up left and right.
Back in the day I was running GLTron on an Athlon 1800+ w/Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 (I think?) and I was running dual monitors. GLTron didn’t like using both screens since it presented as a peculiar resolution. So I emailed the GLTron dude and he quickly emailed me a patch that let me run the game across both monitors (bezels not an issue because I was doing multiplayer split screen).
They’re still waiting to be mainstreamed into the kernel. The process of integrating drivers into the kernel is complicated. Coding practices of the coder that wrote the driver play a large part in that. Buggy or badly written code will not get accepted. Not all of these drivers have the code quality that is required in order to be merged with the kernel.
you can’t honestly be saying that there are no issues with hosting documentation/support for a project exclusively on discord as opposed to a classic forum or wiki.
even ignoring the issues that you are dismissing (and would not exist on a better suited platform), the people using the discord server do not own it. discord servers have no backup functionality. what happens when an admin goes rogue or gets hacked etc? what happens when people get tired of discord for the next chat app?
you shouldn’t have to use a burner email to download a videogame mod or view documentation for an open source project.
There are issues of course. I’m just of the view that answering questions and giving support to a project is perfectly fine on discord because of incredibly fast response times.
As a developer you really only have bandwidth for maybe one or two methods of communication until you get stretched far too thin. Discord combines threads and irc chats into one. That is incredibly productive from a support standpoint.
To me this is nothing different than asking someone to join an irc server for technical help. Most of the irc servers I followed no longer exist but the projects are still fine and they’ve managed. If anything it’s better because you actually have a search feature.
i can understand your point of technical support, but what the op is calling out is when the only source of docs/support are discord.
i’ve had multiple experiences firsthand where I needed basic information about a piece of software that really should have just been on a readme or a wiki or something. instead my only option was to repeatedly ask a discord tech support channel and wait for someone who cares/knows about my question to actually answer me.
unless the options are limited, i’d rather simply pick a different solution than be forced to ask a busy discord channel for tech support.
Assuming you used the search feature on discord and no results came up, then you would be the first person to have ever asked that specific question to the developer. What makes you think that would actually be on a readme?
that’s a good point - i might be letting my dislike for discord-as-a-wiki color my argument. i will say that i’ve had mixed results using the search - sometimes there are no results and sometimes there are plenty of irrelevant results. that’s just what you get when basically hitting ctrl+f on who-knows-how-long worth of conversations instead of a purpose-made knowledge base.
i still think that a dedicated wiki/forum/repo available on the web for anyone with the url is far better suited to this purpose than discord is. discord is (arguably) good at being a chat app and its features aren’t well tailored to being an easily navigable knowledge base. it feels like jumping through unnecessary hoops to have to join a server on the app i use to share memes with my college roommates to get help troubleshooting some software, or worse, to get access to the only official release of the software.
Yep, Debian was (is) a disaster to configure graphics with modern hardware. It was pure open source (even blocked firefox as the logo was copyright protected). They opened up with a non-free repo for hardware support, but already lost the ‘market share’ on the desktop to Ubuntu (and the load of forks with just a different windoemanager as default… instead of adding a desktop selection on install). Also Ubuntu is offered a lot as option on new hardware.
With snap I’m guessing users migrate back… (a very few at least)
Honestly Debian was one of the few that still kept a strong stance on freedom. Its sad that they went the opposite direction. I wish that they would of just broke the non-free into firmware and apps like they have now and then provided two isos. They could have a simple paragraph explaining free software with two links.
best I can do is please react to the #roles channel with a ❤️ to unlock the channel. what’s that? you’re looking for a fix to an issue you’re having in an older and supported version of the app? well sucks for you and suck my d*** we’ve already deleted that channel a long time ago who needs that old info anyway
I think we fixed that for someone a few months ago, maybe you can scroll back and find it. I think the guys handle was user-something, might have been around May…
It’s generally nothing big enough to have heard of unless you’re looking into whatever niche it fills.
Only example that comes to mind is mechanical keyboard stuff. For some of the smaller / one-off designs there was a habit of “if you need troubleshooting, here’s a discord link” instead of even minimal documentation. For “standard” stuff that used the same lil microcontrollers as everything else just a minor annoyance, but saw it with ones that used custom / no microcontroller too, where even a “you need X diodes, Y sprockets, etc” would’ve been nice.
Like OP tend to see it and move on and forget about it because it’s not worth it. The few times I really wanted to get some service running on a raspberry pi or arduino or whatever and tried the discord was a handful of ‘regulars’ swapping memes that were annoyed I wasn’t intimately aware of their codebase.
Not exactly the same thing, but the xone (XBox One controller driver for Linux) project disabled Issues on Github and uses a Discord server instead. Which is stupid as heck, because I’m not going to join a Discord server just to check if someone has already encountered the same issue as me.
TrueCharts (third party app repository for TrueNAS) does this and it drove me crazy until I eventually gave up and moved everything to Docker. Lack of serious documentation was just one of the many reasons.
Then still you can set Linux as default. Lilo had an option to reboot with an option to set a 1 time default. (that was neat) On dual boot hardware, I always set the one I want to default boot, which is in my case always Linux. (must still have a dual boot laptop somewhere)
Speaks to the fact that we apparently need better and new alternatives or make current tools easier to use.
Certain aspects of discord seem to resonate with people (unfortunately…).
Man pages are great as mentioned, but maybe not as accessible to some people. Are there tools to generate more convenient resources (e.g. wikis) from that? Similar to how generating technical documentations from (structured) code comments.
Google “Only spy the web” is highly inaccurate…they are everywhere. In every website, in your android phone, in your YouTube, in your Google drive, in your email, in your Google maps…
It’s cute, people think their android os isn’t collecting an embarrassing amount of data. Even if you turn everything off but cellular, it still phones home with cellular tower triangulation, app usage, call history, general web activity, weather the phone thinks your walking driving or riding a Bike, device diagnostics, etc.
Same, I wish there was a better options. I’m on android right now but when it comes time to upgrade I always try to choose the lesser evil and it’s hard.
See, when he was a little kid, he fell a lot on his head and had quite a few concussions. The Swedish word for concussion is “torva”, so they decided to change his sirname in order to scare the concussion daemons away. And that’s why Linus can Toldvalds and why he’s the only one that can Torvalds.
This was/is my main gripe with Beyond All Reason (open source rts game) there is no wiki or forums - for an outsider it looks like 98% of all development talk is done in discord.
Though they do have a good basic knowledge base on their website about the game units and mechanics (but I would love dedicated wiki).
I once dm’d the maintainer of an open source project who got kind of upset at me for not posting an issue in GitHub. I got it, it made sense and the guy explained that it was all about visibility.
Firstly, discord is entirely the wrong medium for documentation.
Secondly, documentation should be at least as accessible as the code. That is to say, if I can view the code without creating an account for some service, then I should also be able to read the documentation too.
Agreed. I may not want to mix my discord identity with whatever project I’m looking at. I especially don’t want to mix my personal online identity with my professional identity. I post too much politics for that.
Documentation is bad enough. But it’s worse when that’s the only channel to get support. I once read a project maintainer boast that they never read the bug reports and issues on github and if anyone had a bug to just chat him up discord. I mean, dude, no wonder nobody uses your software or takes it seriously. Much less want to collaborate on the development.
I can’t understand why someone would want to do that. Maybe it’s my help desk and IT upbringing, but for the few software tools and things I’ve made, if you chat me without filing a bug/issue on GitHub, I’m not gonna help you.
linuxmemes
Active
This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.