Just a few days ago I wrestled with the overzealous sandboxing and security of the Chromium snap. Had to get a Flatpak and even then had to use some flags to get the proper permissions enabled. Next time I do a refresh I’m going with Debian.
With all respect I’d like to ask, why most people in comments avoiding Debian like plague? It’s good OG distro, stable as fuck, i know about old packages and all, but after daily driving arch BTW™ for 5 years straight all i can say is, I’m tired boss, I’m tired of nonstop updating, I’m tired of dependency hell that coming if you didn’t updated your system for half a month, I’m tired of resolving repeating dependency hell when you’ll have to reinstall half of your system to get it work another week, I’m tired of modern filesystems that locking themselves up completely when something goes wrong, so I’m just decided to give Debian a chance, and you wouldn’t believe it, it’s heaven, when you can just power up your system and it just works, without any trouble, yes, i have dated software, but it’s worth it, and yes, 8 years ago, my first distro was Linux mint, and it broke when i used OFFICIAL GUI updater tool to update version of my mint, also I’ve upvoted your comment and don’t mean any bad
Probably different experiences for some people. I don’t currently use my computer for anything time sensitive. I’m studying web development and some minor programming on it and play video games by myself generally. I like to tinker and mess with stuff as well, so Arch and KDE for me is fine. I like getting new features quickly and I don’t need or have a huge desire for the most stable system. If it breaks i just research how i can fix it and I’ve learned a lot doing that. When I do start actually working in development I’ll probably use a more stable release with Gnome. So really just comes down to different strokes for different folks.
Are you me from 8 years ago?) Keep it up) it’ll help you to gain knowledge and as you’ve said someday you’ll want your pc to just work) 8 years ago I’ve started to use Linux and did alot of distro hopping, and 5 years ago i installed arch, and now i trying Debian)
I used Debian for a bit many years ago. It was great for all the reasons you are tired of Arch (I had tried Gentoo before Debian). When Ubuntu came out, I was quite happy with it. It had the stability of Debian, but was a bit more polished and had better support for new stuff without sacrificing stability.
I’m moving on from Ubuntu at this point, and have tried Mint, but not Mint Debian. It’s nice enough. I’m curious what Debian is like these days though. I haven’t used it in a decade at least.
Debian became more polished and user friendly, you can check YouTube reviews of Debian 12, and yes) i think you should try mint Debian first because of mint flavours i only tried standard mint and don’t know how mint Debian edition do
Flatpak is fine. Snap is Canonical’s proprietary version, which ties you specifically to their app store. It’s not designed to be an open standard but Canonical has made it compulsory in one of the largest distros (Ubuntu) and its derivatives. There are also problems with its sandboxing mechanism competing with AppArmor.
AppArmor and SELinux sandboxing stuff pushed me to only install services with Docker on my headless machines 😣 found out most services can’t write to their own homefolder
This hate comes mostly from Linux communities like here and on Reddit. When you see actual numbers, both are widely used for production use. They have lots of active users as reported in their respective blogs and websites.
That said, it is aware that both had problems. Most hate towards Flatpaks that I can see is from purists that prefer their distro shipping their packages with dynamic dependencies and uprated by their package manager. Also there is complains with outdated runtimes and stuff like how sandboxing works.
Snaps has all problems than before with some extras. When they were released, because of compression, they were painfully slowly to open and they affected boot time. Nowadays this is mostly gone, but they still keep a proprietary store, inability to have multiple repositories (stores) and they don’t respect your home directory structure by placing a “snap” folder in your home.
Personally I use both and I’m happy with them. The proprietary store stuff does not bother me because I’m already trusting canonical binaries by using Ubuntu and they are easy to use and be productive with them.
There was an Ubuntu developer that left Canonical about a year or so ago. His reason was that he had spent a number of years (possibly over a decade, can’t remember) optimizing some code and the kernel to get the fastest boot time possible.
Then he saw Canonical practically throw his work out the window by introducing snaps, which until recently was plagued by serious slowness on the first start of a snap.
He said it felt like his years of work just meant nothing at that point.
There are a number of reasons Flatpaks are a better open source option, even if they aren’t perfect.
Quit Linux? More like quit [non-server revisions of] Ubuntu… Besides, I somehow have an impression that preinstalled crap is among the popular reasons to why ppl leave windows
Proprietary doesn't bother me at least not how snap is currently implemented
I don't recall noticing a size difference between snaps and flatpaks
I've found snaps as fast as flatpaks, but I know snaps has issues before I started using them
Honestly, if you’re satisfied, there’s not really a compelling reason to switch. Keep using snaps if that’s what works for you. But I would like to remark that we should preferably support open solutions to proprietary ones. That’s not saying that we should never use proprietary software, but just something to keep in mind.
You had me at proprietary. But seriously, I use FOSS. I’ll tolerate proprietary software if I have absolutely no other choice. There’s absolutely no reason for me to put up with this bullshit. While it’s a long way from the kind of shitfuckery Microsoft is so fond of, it’s still completely unnecessary.
Me reacting to analogies with “Did you know these two things are not completely identical?”, completely unburdened by the knowledge that I’m supposed to explain how the differences invalidate the comparison.
I’d argue it’s pretty stupid to use FOSS but then depend on a proprietary server that only one for-profit company is allowed to run to deliver all that software, trusting them to just never do wrong or leave you high and dry. I’d also argue it fits the analogy perfectly, because the analogy was about saying “I haven’t had a problem yet” in response to being shown the potential problems of the action.
But the problem with snaps is an opinion. If Canonical goes bonkers I'll just go use something else. Until then I don't have any issues with them using proprietary software within their own ecosystem.
It’s not an opinion that proprietary for-profit software will betray you, it is an inevitability. It has happened every single time. If it was FOSS, we could salvage it. It’s proprietary, so we can’t. When it fails it must simply be abandoned. I just hope you learn the right lesson when this happens.
WinRAR will either die, or be sold and squeezed by its new owners. Nobody lives forever and no asset goes unflipped in this market. You can say you won’t update, but that just leaves you vulnerable.
If I were to list every FOSS project that has lasted longer, I’d have to spend all day writing the post. winRAR is unique in that it’s one of the only pieces of long-lasting proprietary software that didn’t die or turn to crap. Such things are not unique or even rare in FOSS.
You shouldn’t use this app in the first place. It had many data breaches and it copy everything from Telegram (maybe everyone copies, but I don’t use other apps). I only mainly use Telegram and Matrix.
It’s impossible to convince that to friends and family. In my country everyone use WhatsApp as primary messaging app . It’s kind of like iMessage situation in US
It’s nice that a lot of my surroundings have finally jumped to Telegram. Previously it was Viber (bleh). But it’s much hard to go to Matrix because it’s much much less feature rich and less polished then Telegram. I can easily use it as a basic text messenger, but that’s about it. So Telegram is a solid middle ground. Can’t wait for the multi server Matrix accounts.
I’ve been considering dipping my toes in and trying to learn Linux for the first time recently, having seen a couple screenshots from Mint that look approachable and not intimidating… Can somebody tell me how Mint would fair if it was included in this comic so I know what I’m getting myself into (or if I should try Fedora or something…)
Mint is hands down the easiest and most stable distro I have ever used. You don’t need the terminal at all. Comes with everything necessary preconfigured and if you need any tutorial you can use any Ubuntu tutorial (its based on Ubuntu).
Mint is a based on Ubuntu, which is based on Debian, so the guy on the left. The comic implies that it’s easy but not quite as easy as Fedora. I would say that it is easier to use than Fedora.
Setup is simple and unless you’ve got something unusual going on on your computer, then everything will just work. Since it’s based on Ubuntu, most Ubuntu information will also apply to Mint, and that’s nice because there is a lot of information about Ubuntu.
Not everyone would care about this, but I personally don’t like chasing updates and constantly installing the latest versions of things. All Debian distributions favor stability over cutting edge features, whereas some distributions are set up to try to get the latest changes quickly. Ubuntu leans very slightly toward cutting edge compared to stock Debian, but Ununtu has Long Term Support (LTS) releases which are supported for, I think, 5 years. Ubuntu also have other releases with shorter support times. If you’re using Ubuntu and favor stability, you need to pay a little attention to what you’re installing. Mint is based only on Ubuntu LTS releases, so Mint favors stability.
Not to ambush you into tech support, but I decided to take your advice and try that, but I’m instantly stopped and trying to google the answer for myself is just leading to vague powershell language and I’m fully unfamiliar with powershell. I installed WSL and Ubuntu, but when I attempt to open Ubuntu I’m getting:
“Installing, this may take a few minutes… WslRegisterDistribution failed with error: 0x80004002 Error: 0x80004002 No such interface supported”
Any idea what I’m doing wrong? The site I’m following (your link) doesn’t mention this error or how to overcome it, unless I’m just to dumb to decipher it.
If you’ve got a spare USB stick laying around then you could install Ventoy on it (www.ventoy.net/en/index.html) and run Linux in a live environment. Just (1) install Ventoy on the USB (this will wipe it, btw) (2) download any live Linux ISO (Mint has one of these) and put it on the USB (3) change your BIOS boot order to USB first (4) reboot and select the Linux you want to test drive from the Ventoy menu. (5) When you’re done, just shut down, unplug USB and reboot normally.
PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> wsl.exe -l -v Windows Subsystem for Linux has no installed distributions.
Use ‘wsl.exe --list --online’ to list available distributions and 'wsl.exe --install ’ to install.
Distributions can also be installed by visiting the Microsoft Store: aka.ms/wslstoreError code: Wsl/WSL_E_DEFAULT_DISTRO_NOT_FOUND PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> wsl --set-default-version 2 For information on key differences with WSL 2 please visit aka.ms/wsl2The operation completed successfully. PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> wsl.exe -l -v Windows Subsystem for Linux has no installed distributions.
Use ‘wsl.exe --list --online’ to list available distributions and 'wsl.exe --install ’ to install.
Distributions can also be installed by visiting the Microsoft Store: aka.ms/wslstoreError code: Wsl/WSL_E_DEFAULT_DISTRO_NOT_FOUND PS C:\WINDOWS\system32>*
Still getting this when I try to open Ubuntu:
*Installing, this may take a few minutes… WslRegisterDistribution failed with error: 0x80370114 Error: 0x80370114 The operation could not be started because a required feature is not installed.
Press any key to continue…*
I did make sure the subsystem feature in windows features was turned on, btw
If you just want to get to using and enjoying an operating system without reveling in nerdery (which can be fun!), Mint is fantastic. Just make sure you understand partitioning basics if you want to install alongside Windows.
You can’t go wrong using something like VirtualBox to try the install process without touching your actual system :).
If it were depicted in this comic, it would be even easier than Debian because it doesn’t lean toward any particular extreme, it just goes for being usable.
I’m pretty sure there’s a simple check box to include proprietary codecs and things that are commonly used, so you can still watch Netflix or open .mp4s and stuff.
Wide variety of drivers. Should just work on most systems. Friendly community if it doesn’t!
That said sometimes the applications feel a bit old, and you’re looking over at people playing with shiny new features in something like Blender or Krita…
Well, Mint has flatpaks built into the software store! Flatpak is basically a self-contained app that can be the latest version so it doesn’t care about the rest of your system and “just works.”
What’s the process of switching distros? If I start with Mint but do decide later I’m enticed by those shiny new features, will switching over be akin to starting entirely over and learning a whole new system, or is it gonna more similar to just like reinstalling windows for a clean install (to use an analogy situation I’m familiar with)?
edit: wrote dispo instead of distro, goddamn stoner brain
Create a separate partition for /home so you can change distro without having to backup and restore the files in your home directory. Just be sure to NOT format that partition in the installer for your new distro. Take a backup anyways.
It’s mostly a clean installation. You can copy the contents of your home directory, which is where personal configuration files are stored, in the hopes that some stuff will transfer, but surely that won’t be complete.
You could also try dual booting, installing two OSes and you’d choose which to run at start up. You can configure these so that files on one are accessible from the other. This is pretty easy to do if you’re even slightly tech savvy.
I’ve found that the shiney new features are usually buggy. If you’re into helping improve things, using and fixing the new stuff is a great way to contribute. If you’re reasonably tech savvy, you’re going to be able to figure out any distribution. With few exceptions, they’re all easy enough to use. I even doubt the portrayal of Arch in this comic. If you’re not into developing stuff or just want to get your feet wet before diving in more, starting with Mint is easy. And it’s also easy enough to switch or expand if you decide to try something different later. There’s not a lot of lock in with Linux stuff.
The only thing I really have to add regarding “shiny new features”, is you can fire up something like VirtualBox and make “virtual” installs of other distros on your current machine.
A virtual machine or “VM” is basically running an emulated computer on your currently running computer, just like it was a program or game. But everything is self-contained in that emulated system.
So in Mint for example, you can still download other distro ISOs, get used to running the install process, trying out new things, basically just playing around and experimenting, because if you bork the whole thing it won’t affect your working “bare metal” system you’re using. You can just delete the file and start over as if it were a brand new computer! It’s strangely fun and has a lot of practical uses. (You know, like seeing what all this fuss is about with Temple OS for instance lol)
You can find a ton of interesting distros to play with on Distrowatch.com for instance, from stuff that’s meant to run on embedded devices to stuff that’s straight up memes. Lol
If you decide to actually switch your bare-metal system using the advice above, you’ll have a lot more experience then. :)
As for other distros, distro-hopping can be a lot of fun, but just remember in the end, there’s not as much difference between distros as it seems.
Mostly it’s about whether it’s rolling release or LTS, the desktop environment it starts with, and the packages / package-manager it ships with, aside from different specific customizations that team might have done.
Essentially Linux is Linux, but different distros cater to a certain kind of use case, audience, community, and so on.
The beauty and fun of Linux is choice and always having more you can learn!
Also Mint is often touted as a “beginner distro” but that doesn’t mean it can’t be a main driver for pros! There’s nothing wrong if you find you enjoy sticking with it in the long run. :)
I recently discovered emerge --jobs 8 --load-average 8 instead of just make -j8. Not gonna help much on a 900MHz pentium, but it has really sped up my build times.
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