Canadian parliament mistakenly recognized and celebrated a person who faught for the nazis who was Ukrainian as a veteran of ww2, along with the prime-minister of Ukraine. It was a mistake made by the organizer, with no real evidence it was purposeful. The actions has since been denounced. Terrible thing to have happened, it’s a fucked situation, but people are attempting to make it sound like direct support of nazism. Which it was not
Also, unlike what the meme suggests, this happened exactly once
Actually it’s not the first time. At the time the minister of foreign affairs and deputy prime minister, Chrystia Freeland, vehemently defended her grandfather who was an editor for a Nazi newspaper in Ukraine.
Freeland’s maternal grandfather, Michael Chomiak, had been a journalist before World War II. During the war in Nazi-occupied Poland and later in Nazi-occupied Austria he was chief editor of the Ukrainian daily newspaper Krakivs’ki Visti (Kraków News) for the Nazi regime
[…]
Her office later denied Chomiak ever collaborated with Nazi Germany. However, reporting by The Globe and Mail showed that Freeland had known of her grandfather’s Nazi ties since at least 1996, when she helped edit a scholarly article by Himka for the Journal of Ukrainian Studies.
Oh shit, so the country of canada has done it once before denouncing it and a single member of parliament has a history of defending her grandfather, who was not only a nazi but an author for a propaganda newspaper stolen from a Jewish guy.
I stand by the “only happened once” thing though. Your second argument is a singular member, who should of course be removed along with the speaker. It also has nothing to do with the current government of Ukraine.
The first is an embarrassment to canada and an action for which we as a whole and our legislator are partially responcible. The second is just one person, who is scum.
Glad you brought this to my attention though. Nationalism in all forms is a disgrace.
Indo wish you had given me a link to that quote though. In the future, if you quote something, provide the source. It seems like you’re hiding something when you don’t, which it seems you weren’t
Soooo completely misunderstand my country’s existing economy and ecology, make a bunch of boneheaded decisions, then proceed to murder tens of millions with my dictatorship in the name of “modernization” while creating one of the most oppressive, least politically free governments in human history?
There’s some weirdness going on with how Ukraine didn’t ban Nazi symbols relating to this unit.
In Canada courts determined they couldn’t condemn the unit as a whole which is not cool but you can condemn individuals.
But the real truth seems to be that this poster is posting anti-Ukraine propaganda. By reading deeper into the subtext, and in light of Russian propaganda where they propose that Ukrainians are nazis. This would seem to indicate that the OP is a pro-russian sympathizer.
Because it’s one of the few true ones? The media and politicians trump up fears of immigrants and poor people while downplaying or ignoring tax evasion, both legal and illegal.
OP’s solution would be getting rid of capital all together and becoming best buds with China and Russia, as shown by other posts. But that is not expressed here.
Ironically, becoming best buds with Russia is something the Left and the Right agree on. At least in Germany.
Ironically, becoming best buds with Russia is something the Left and the Right agree on. At least in Germany.
Bruh. You’re just talking about Die Linke and the AFD. Nobody else agrees with it. They actually have pretty similar values, but they wouldn’t collaborate out of principal.
This is a terrible position to take. Anyone can be educated.
The thing is, nobody likes being flat-out told they’re wrong, and with the way arguments on the internet go, that’s all that will ever happen.
Most of my friends are heavily conservative, but I’ve learned how to have productive conversations with them about issues, and it’s almost always “This is how it benefits you if it were different.”
It’s difficult sometimes, but it’s worth doing, and it’s important to understand that the guy you’re talking to isn’t the enemy. He’s just another dude.
This is a bit of an unrealistic position, especially if trying to generalise past the boundaries of your friend group. Your friends trust you, so by all means, talk to them and try to educate them. But trying to change a complete stranger's mind is almost impossible.
And many of the positions the left refuses to "debate" are that certain groups of people should not be able to exist within society. Like, the left isn't refusing to debate tax policy, it's always about bigotry.
And let's just be perfectly blunt. The vast majority of conservatives screaming "groomer" at visibly LGBT+ people aren't going to have their minds changed. You can't educate someone who does not want to be educated. And demanding minorities stand in the firing-line and fruitlessly try to educate the people who hate them, sometimes to the point of hate-crimes, forever... You have to question the priorities of such a demand.
Sometimes caring for minorities means giving up on convincing hateful people.
Every political opinion has a reasoning and differences in political opinions are usually based on differences in the morals or ideals of people. So why do you have to hate or discredit the opinions that dont match yours?
Refusing to debate a topic (aka refusing to hear the other side’s arguments) just leads no narrower-minded people. You cant have a reasonable opinion if you have only heard one side’s (your own) arguments.
Every political opinion has a reasoning and differences in political opinions are usually based on differences in the morals or ideals of people.
That is very vague. Because sometimes those "differences in the morals or ideals of people" are that certain demographics of people are inferior, dangerous, or otherwise shouldn't exist in society. That isn't something we should pretend is reasonable.
It's also not true that every political opinion has strong reasoning behind it. Some people just do not live in the same reality that we do.
Refusing to debate a topic (aka refusing to hear the other side’s arguments) just leads no narrower-minded people. You cant have a reasonable opinion if you have only heard one side’s (your own) arguments.
But we HAVE heard them. We have heard them for decades. We have heard them over and over and over again until our ancestors had to fight multiple wars against them.
We have heard the racism and the sexism and the homophobia and the transphobia and every other little bigotry. Stop pretending we haven't heard them out. We have.
And after decades of listening and trying to have these conversations people eventually say "enough". That's not being narrow-minded. It's the opposite.
The more room you make for bigotry, the less room you make for people affected by that bigotry. And if one wants to hear diverse views, then one should listen to diverse people. Bigotry leads to echo chambers.
One of the biggest problems left/liberal leaning people have when debating is concerned, is they’re often convinced they, and their viewpoints, are superior and this should be obvious to everyone.
As a result, they’re often completely unable to make a case for their beliefs when challenged. They never thought they would need to.
Being able to actually make a case for your beliefs requires actually understanding them, and knowing the downsides ahead of time.
Some "challenges" are completely without merit though. Conservatives like to "challenge" the human rights of women and minoritised groups. The rights of people to exist within society and pursue happiness are, to progressives, axiomatically true. These challenges aren't something to be argued, they are something to be rejected as abominable.
If conservatives want to challenge tax policies or foreign relations or other such issues, sure! That's a discussion we can and should have. But that's not the same as challenging the ability for certain demographics to exist within society.
I know this is just a meme and all but I don’t think that holding the opinion stated in the title of this post is going to do anyone any better. Yes, there are some dumbasses who you shouldn’t engage with but saying this about the entire ‘right’ will lead to nothing but further polarisation of opinions in the community, which I think everyone can agree is not a good outcome.
I disagree. It’s best that we systemically and socially deplatform and disenfranchise the right. They have no place in a conversation that’s interested in progress and human rights, and they only seek to derail such conversations.
The only effective tool against fascists is exclusion.
I understand where you are coming from. It is true that there is a pretty vocal and decently sized part of the right which became completely fascist and extremist. However I believe, as a person that has opinions from around the whole spectrum, that not all of them are like that. We should try to get along with the ones that are still sane. There are also people of the left that went haywire, but that doesn’t mean we should generalize. The right has an extremely big issue, you are right, I just don’t think this will help. It’ll actually contribute to fascists being able to propagate the hate against the left. I wouldn’t say I identify with the version of the right we know today completely, but I certainly could be considered to be in that part of the spectrum. I consider myself to be respectful of other views, as long as they are not extremist or mean to hurt others. That is why it hurts me to see what some are doing to the word “right” with their Nazi ideologies. I would like to finish off clarifying that I am not one of those extremist conservatives or however you wanna call them, and that I’m writing this with the best of intentions possible. Lemmy is a great platform, way more tolerant than reddit, but sometimes its users make mistakes like these and fall into the trap of fascists. This is just my opinion, and I will be happy to hear other points of view.
Mark Twain once said · “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.". Unfortunatly, I think we’ve reach a point where discussions is mostly useless. Recently, I had a discussion with someone trying to convince me that most young adults are now trans (lol). I told him I teach at college and Univ level, and have not yet seen a single trans person, over the hundred of young adults I had in my classes. I had to cut the conversation short after 10 minutes of him explaining to me why I’m wrong because he watch dozens of yt video that confirms he is right, even if he never step foot in a university.
Okay, find me a right winger who would vote against capital. I know there are some Republicans who would unionize, some who might even appreciate a few regulations. Certainly many who have a bit of compassion for the homeless. I don’t know that I’ve met a right winger who questions the power of people who have money. That there is a ‘job creator’.
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